Quantcast

Jump to content


Photo

Christianity.


  • Please log in to reply
96 replies to this topic

#1 Sean

Sean
  • 6188 posts


Users Awards

Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:05 PM

Dear Christians,

I don't understand you. You believe in things that are obviously fake, but are certain are true. You believe in things that were made up before we had any understanding of science as an answer to people's questions. Some believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, despite proof provided by Radiocarbon Dating.

You tell me you've seen God, but then tell me you he can't be seen. I tell you that religion is a crutch, and simply something to guide you to the right path, and you tell me, "No! When I let God into my heart, I no longer needed drugs or to steal." But did you not just prove my point? I tell you that you only believe in God because you are scared of burning in Hell for all eternity. Of course you say no, but you can't tell my what your motives for religion are.

So please, explain yourself to me. Why do you believe in God. How can you accept something that was written before any modern science was created, and tell me that these proven things are wrong? I really would love to know.

Sincerely,
Sean

#2 Blizzard

Blizzard
  • 244 posts

Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:13 PM

Thats why its called faith, to you its fake to me its real.

Its hard to explain, faith doesn't have proof you have to believe that its real.

Just like evolution I can say the same thing all it is, is a theory, which has its doubts.

All sience has is the big bang theory and the string theory on how we came to be, but logic says that nothing can not creat anything.

Some how someone or something made everything.

Edited by Blizzard, 20 February 2008 - 09:15 PM.


#3 Sean

Sean
  • 6188 posts


Users Awards

Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:15 PM

See! You don't believe in evolution? REALLY? How can you not believe in evolution. It's been proven. We've proven chickens have traits from it's ancestors. Not "poof" chicken.

QUOTE
All sience has is the big bang theory and the string theory on how we came to be, but logic says that nothing can not creat anything.

Some how someone or something made everything.

Obviously you don't know the string theory. It's not a theory of creation, it's a universal theory of everything. You probably just saw reference to it in a previous post. And what I was talking about was the creation of our current universe. Not all the matter in it. Look it up, it's interesting.

And logic is more often than not wrong. Logically, because I don't see anything in the air means that there is nothing there, right? Wrong. The majority of the electromagnetic spectrum is invisible to the human eye. Logically, the sun revolves around the Earth because that's the way it looks, right? Wrong, it's an illusion.

Logic, or common sense, is very often wrong. It's the facts that actually matter.

You are the one who believes in the stuff written by a group of people who used to say the sun revolved around the Earth and KILLED people who opposed this thought. Why? Because it might make people lose faith, consequently making the church lose power and money. Hmm...

Edited by Sean, 20 February 2008 - 09:21 PM.


#4 Blizzard

Blizzard
  • 244 posts

Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:18 PM

If evolution was real most of the world wouldn't call it the "evolution theory".

and explain more the chicken thing please.

#5

Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:19 PM

QUOTE (Blizzard @ Feb 20 2008, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If evolution was real most of the world wouldn't call it the "evolution theory".

and explain more the chicken thing please.

I've never heard of 'evolution theory' it's always been plain old evolution to me. 1we8.gif

#6 Hydrogen

Hydrogen
  • Neocodex Co-Founder

  • 22213 posts


Users Awards

Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:22 PM

Good thing that my religion has no problems with science whistling.gif

#7 Blizzard

Blizzard
  • 244 posts

Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:26 PM

Well idk, this an extremely hard topic to talk about.

Faith is faith, thats why its called faith you don't have proof but you believe it anyways.

I don't got any evidence to back myself up.

But I believe in it.

But i'd love to talk about this topic. smile.gif

#8 Sean

Sean
  • 6188 posts


Users Awards

Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:26 PM

QUOTE (Blizzard @ Feb 20 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If evolution was real most of the world wouldn't call it the "evolution theory".

and explain more the chicken thing please.

It's only a theory because there is no absolute way we can definitely say without a doubt we are 100% right.

I can't find any links supporting my claim, but there was a Discovery channel special which showed that reverse-engineering a dinosaur from modern day birds wouldn't be all that tough. There was one genetic scientist who managed to activate something within the chicken's DNA which made it grow sharp teeth.. like an alligators.

Found it.
More on it here:
http://www.tulsaworl...8_D6_hScie30213

QUOTE (Hydrogen @ Feb 20 2008, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good thing that my religion has no problems with science whistling.gif

I could only wish that others could be so logical. While I don't agree with your beliefs, I have no problems with the things that are preached. Though, I read in my Kuran that Muslims are superior and nobody else is as good as a Muslim... which is a strange thing to say whistling.gif

Edited by Sean, 20 February 2008 - 09:28 PM.


#9 sonic

sonic
  • 3452 posts

Posted 20 February 2008 - 09:59 PM

QUOTE (Sean @ Feb 20 2008, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dear Christians,

I don't understand you. You believe in things that are obviously fake, but are certain are true. You believe in things that were made up before we had any understanding of science as an answer to people's questions. Some believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, despite proof provided by Radiocarbon Dating.

You tell me you've seen God, but then tell me you he can't be seen. I tell you that religion is a crutch, and simply something to guide you to the right path, and you tell me, "No! When I let God into my heart, I no longer needed drugs or to steal." But did you not just prove my point? I tell you that you only believe in God because you are scared of burning in Hell for all eternity. Of course you say no, but you can't tell my what your motives for religion are.

So please, explain yourself to me. Why do you believe in God. How can you accept something that was written before any modern science was created, and tell me that these proven things are wrong? I really would love to know.

Sincerely,
Sean



Listen how old are you?

I am 19, and have lived through ALOT of things. I would not consider myself a Christian, but I do believe in a higher power. There are just somethings in my life that has no other explanation. I am telling you. Weather it be Allah, God, or who ever, its there. It may not be some guy striking you down with lightning if you eat meat on a certain Friday, but there is something. I just don't flatter myself into thinking I can possibly understand it.

On that note, come on now. People have their beliefs, and until someone insults you for yours, you have no right to come out like this and be outright rude. Granted, it was probably warranted by some ignorant Christian that told you, your were going to hell because you beat off into a sock or something. That is still no reason for your topic. Its ignorant. And just as ignorant as some Christians. You should be ashamed of yourself, I have always thought you better than this.

QUOTE (Sean @ Feb 20 2008, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I could only wish that others could be so logical. While I don't agree with your beliefs, I have no problems with the things that are preached. Though, I read in my Kuran that Muslims are superior and nobody else is as good as a Muslim... which is a strange thing to say whistling.gif


Come on now. Einstein was a edit (Spirtual). Ever heard the quote "God doesn't play dice"? It's in reference to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. Einstein believed in the idea of the bible as a set of guidelines, not a historically accurate textbook. Were is the fun in a text book?

Edited by Sonic, 20 February 2008 - 10:53 PM.


#10 Blizzard

Blizzard
  • 244 posts

Posted 20 February 2008 - 10:18 PM

QUOTE (Sonic @ Feb 20 2008, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Listen how old are you?

I am 19, and have lived through ALOT of things. I would not consider myself a Christian, but I do believe in a higher power. There are just somethings in my life that has no other explanation. I am telling you. Weather it be Allah, God, or who ever, its there. It may not be some guy striking you down with lightning if you eat meat on a certain Friday, but there is something. I just don't flatter myself into thinking I can possibly understand it.

On that note, come on now. People have their beliefs, and until someone insults you for yours, you have no right to come out like this and be outright rude. Granted, it was probably warranted by some ignorant Christian that told you, your were going to hell because you beat off into a sock or something. That is still no reason for your topic. Its ignorant. And just as ignorant as some Christians. You should be ashamed of yourself, I have always thought you better than this.



Come on now. Einstein was a Christian. Ever heard the quote "God doesn't play dice"? It's in reference to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. Einstein believed in the idea of the bible as a set of guidelines, not a historically accurate textbook. Were is the fun in a text book?

Buddy, Einstein was a jew. whistling.gif

#11 T3cHniC

T3cHniC
  • 146 posts

Posted 20 February 2008 - 10:41 PM

With every person there are motives for what we think, do, or believe, say, etc.

"non-religious people" i.e. Atheists. You motives for "not believing" or rather, believing there is no god is that you have not experienced, seen, or most likely not attempted either of the two.

I believe in the lord Jesus Christ, My Savior. I am by no means a true Christian (meaning I'm not trying everyday to be "more like him" everyday.)

I am a firm believer of Intelligent Design as well as Evolution. I believe we Evolved into what we are today, but I believed we were engineered to do so from whatever form we were how ever many years ago earth is believed to have been discovered, created, Whatever.

I do not deny however that religion does not have all the factual evidence. I don't believe science does either. But I do know that the fact that in the 19th century and earlier that it was bad not to attend service on Sunday. Well, theres nothing that says we have to.

From my experiences I have seen many amazing things that I believe are divine. That means if they are not divine, I experience more coincidences than your average person.

So you are very correct to say that there are no motives for believing in god. But, it is truly in the eyes of the believer. I have a sense of reassurance everyday and as far as I know, it has come through for me on numerous occasions.

So I guess your thinking most motives come from parents passing their beliefs to there children! I will not deny that, my parents told me about this amazing man who will one day return. I believed them, and pursued it all on my own. I've been told not to believe in something just cause my parents told me too. It is more than their persuasion, it is more than my "divine appointments" that I believe are the work of god. It is the pure fact that although science is very amazing and VERY accurate, it to must have flaws. So, ask yourself this, "Do we really, in all complete evidence, without a shadow of a doubt know the true origins of the universe and the earth it self?

If you have the answer to that I will concede to that answer. Will it sway my opinions and beliefs? Most likely not!

Take this reply for what you will!!!

Edited by T3cHniC, 20 February 2008 - 10:58 PM.


#12 Sora

Sora
  • 10 posts

Posted 20 February 2008 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE
Listen how old are you?

I am 19, and have lived through ALOT of things. I would not consider myself a Christian, but I do believe in a higher power. There are just somethings in my life that has no other explanation. I am telling you. Weather it be Allah, God, or who ever, its there. It may not be some guy striking you down with lightning if you eat meat on a certain Friday, but there is something. I just don't flatter myself into thinking I can possibly understand it.

On that note, come on now. People have their beliefs, and until someone insults you for yours, you have no right to come out like this and be outright rude. Granted, it was probably warranted by some ignorant Christian that told you, your were going to hell because you beat off into a sock or something. That is still no reason for your topic. Its ignorant. And just as ignorant as some Christians. You should be ashamed of yourself, I have always thought you better than this.


i think he is right. (about the higher power thing) i mean there's no need to develope hatred towards each other. umm yeah i dont know how to say this but its like let people belive what they wishes while we belive ours. haha can you belive that? me saying all this big words. smile.gif never knew i can say all this.

#13 sonic

sonic
  • 3452 posts

Posted 20 February 2008 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (Blizzard @ Feb 20 2008, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Buddy, Einstein was a jew. whistling.gif


Eh, sarcasm....

#14 Sweeney

Sweeney
  • 1230 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 12:21 AM

QUOTE (Blizzard @ Feb 21 2008, 05:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thats why its called faith, to you its fake to me its real.

Its hard to explain, faith doesn't have proof you have to believe that its real.

Just like evolution I can say the same thing all it is, is a theory, which has its doubts.

All sience has is the big bang theory and the string theory on how we came to be, but logic says that nothing can not creat anything.

Some how someone or something made everything.

Evolution requires about as much faith to believe in as the existence of America.
Sorry, but that it occurs is an observable fact.
The theory of Evolution, on the other hand, is not fact, as it describes the mechanisms that drive evolution. However, it is a theory backed by over 150 years worth of supporting evidence, and has nothing contradicting it. In essence, it's as close to fact as biological theories get.
Of course, the fallcacy of equivocation is an old trick from the theist sleeve, and bears no practical relevance to the topic at all.

To believe in something so extraordinary, without a scrap of evidence, is foolish beyond measure.
But if people want to, then that's up to them.
Right up until they start trying to force their beliefs on me, or on people I care about. Then their ignorance is fair game.

#15 sonic

sonic
  • 3452 posts

Posted 21 February 2008 - 12:25 AM

QUOTE (Sunscorch @ Feb 21 2008, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To believe in something so extraordinary, without a scrap of evidence, is foolish beyond measure.
But if people want to, then that's up to them.
Right up until they start trying to force their beliefs on me, or on people I care about. Then their ignorance is fair game.


I believe that is a VERY respectable look at things.

Maybe you will one day experience something that will contradict how you feel about a higher power. Maybe you wont. Who knows.

I know I used to be an Atheist.

Some men loose god during war. I just happened to get a glimpse. wink.gif

#16 Melchoire

Melchoire
  • 5284 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 12:27 AM

QUOTE (Hydrogen @ Feb 20 2008, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good thing that my religion has no problems with science whistling.gif

Alas, most Muslims don't know that sad.gif

#17 Sweeney

Sweeney
  • 1230 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 12:28 AM

QUOTE (Sonic @ Feb 21 2008, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe that is a VERY respectable look at things.
Maybe you will one day experience something that will contradict how you feel about a higher power. Maybe you wont. Who knows.
I know I used to be an Atheist.
Some men loose god during war. I just happened to get a glimpse. wink.gif
If I did, I certainly wouldn't swing towards the Christian God.
But there we are.

#18 sonic

sonic
  • 3452 posts

Posted 21 February 2008 - 12:31 AM

QUOTE (Sunscorch @ Feb 21 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I did, I certainly wouldn't swing towards the Christian God.
But there we are.


Agreed.
In the end its all the same.

Like I said before, who are we to think we can understand something like "god".
How can we think that something so great would be so petty as to care about the small details that the bible says are laws.

Thats why I try and live a good life, and do the right thing..

Go with Dumbledore's explanation.
"Death is just the next great adventure"

#19 Tetiel

Tetiel
  • 11533 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:20 AM

I am a Christian and I believe in evolution. I believe that science is merely the way that God set the world to work. There doesn't need to be any conflict between Christianity and science at all. I like to believe in God because I believe the world to be an art. It's beautiful. And I agree with Sonic there was no need to word your topic so vehemently. It's insulting. I don't believe in God because I'm afraid of hell. I believe in God because through the influences of my church I became a better person. The way I live my life because of the teachings helped me become who I am today. It is my choice to believe what I believe and I am in no way harming you by believing it. Why so much hatred?

#20 pyke

pyke
  • 13686 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:27 AM

Hey Sean, why did the big bang occur? tongue.gif

What caused everything to start rolling. There comes a point where science can't yet offer an explanation, hence I feel that people are justified in believing in a god. I don't believe in one persay, I just don't pass the idea off as foolishness.

And hydrogen, naturally Islam will agree more with science, considering it's about 600 years younger than christianity and thousands of years younger than Judaism.

#21 Hydrogen

Hydrogen
  • Neocodex Co-Founder

  • 22213 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:35 AM

QUOTE (Tetiel @ Feb 21 2008, 07:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am a Christian and I believe in evolution. I believe that science is merely the way that God set the world to work. There doesn't need to be any conflict between Christianity and science at all. I like to believe in God because I believe the world to be an art. It's beautiful. And I agree with Sonic there was no need to word your topic so vehemently. It's insulting. I don't believe in God because I'm afraid of hell. I believe in God because through the influences of my church I became a better person. The way I live my life because of the teachings helped me become who I am today. It is my choice to believe what I believe and I am in no way harming you by believing it. Why so much hatred?
I acknowledge that this is a one time case, and I don't mean any offense to sean or any of the other proponents of Atheism, but I find it ironic that atheists are sometimes so hostile towards those who follow religion and yet religions get all the blame for causing hostility in the world tongue.gif.

QUOTE (Brandon @ Feb 21 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey Sean, why did the big bang occur? tongue.gif

What caused everything to start rolling. There comes a point where science can't yet offer an explanation, hence I feel that people are justified in believing in a god. I don't believe in one persay, I just don't pass the idea off as foolishness.

And hydrogen, naturally Islam will agree more with science, considering it's about 600 years younger than christianity and thousands of years younger than Judaism.
I'm talking about complete agreement man. From the big bang, to oceanic currents to even clear acknowledgement that there are different oceans and their waters don't intermingle. The fact that iron did not originate on Earth along with an extremely specific description of the stages of development within the womb, it's all described and laid bare in the Qur'an. And this is just what I can think of off the top of my head with no sleep tongue.gif.

All this at a time when people mostly believed the earth was flat and the sky was supported by two huge mountain ranges on either side rolleyes.gif.

But I wouldn't have the fact that there is complete scientific agreement be the basis for your faith. You believe because you believe. Proofs only aid to strengthen your beliefs but are in no way the basis for them.

#22 Waser Lave

Waser Lave

  • 25516 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:44 AM

QUOTE (Brandon @ Feb 21 2008, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey Sean, why did the big bang occur? tongue.gif

What caused everything to start rolling. There comes a point where science can't yet offer an explanation, hence I feel that people are justified in believing in a god. I don't believe in one persay, I just don't pass the idea off as foolishness.


I personally believe that the universe is oscillatory. That is that it undergoes both expansion and contraction which means that it's never-ending and our current period of expansion is just one of many. tongue.gif

Eventually the energy which is currently causing the universe to expand will be used up and it will begin to contract again (the big crunch). I doubt it stands up to the laws of thermodynamics but whatever, they could be wrong too. tongue.gif

#23 Hydrogen

Hydrogen
  • Neocodex Co-Founder

  • 22213 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:47 AM

QUOTE (Laser Wave @ Feb 21 2008, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I personally believe that the universe is oscillatory. That is that it undergoes both expansion and contraction which means that it's never-ending and our current period of expansion is just one of many. tongue.gif

Eventually the energy which is currently causing the universe to expand will be used up and it will begin to contract again (the big crunch). I doubt it stands up to the laws of thermodynamics but whatever, they could be wrong too. tongue.gif

I think the big crunch has been proven already? Correct me if I'm wrong tongue.gif.

#24 Waser Lave

Waser Lave

  • 25516 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:50 AM

QUOTE (Hydrogen @ Feb 21 2008, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the big crunch has been proven already? Correct me if I'm wrong tongue.gif.


I have no idea, I've never researched it. tongue.gif That's the only way that the (current) universe makes sense in my head though, no start, no end. biggrin.gif

#25 pyke

pyke
  • 13686 posts


Users Awards

Posted 21 February 2008 - 10:50 AM

Here Hydro, for you tongue.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users