96 replies to this topic

[Waser Lave]

Are you being ironic ?
About the pizza, was only an example, people experience miracles everyday, everytime. Being alive is one of them. These sick children, why they don't just die? They should be dead and so they could see the paradise! No. There may be a meaning in the fact that they're alive now, show us that men is imperfect and we may be wrong 90% of time. We have to open our eyes and do something. You say that all about god, but are you doing something to change the world? As a lot of people said, is all about faith, I believe a lot in god, I don't really believe in Hell, I believe on a god made of love that can guide us, and make our lifes better. Some say: "How can you prove god exist?" and other say "How can you prove god doesn't exist?". Religion is a very important thing in our life as it guides us to a better way of living...

EDIT: I speak for myself, I thought a million of times about thinking that god doesn't exist, but than he proven to me that he does, and he's here. I hope that he can prove to you either

Well I haven't caused pain and suffering to billions of people (yet), so I'm not doing too bad so far in the kindness round of the Laser Wave vs. God competition I think.

Humans aren't here to change the world our role, like that of every other animal, is to survive and keep the species going.

Edited by Laser Wave, 23 February 2008 - 08:35 AM.

[Gen]

Well I haven't caused pain and suffering to billions of people (yet), so I'm not doing too bad so far in the kindness round of the Laser Wave vs. God competition I think.

Who knows if you isn't going to

[Waser Lave]

Who knows if you isn't going to

I have a sense of right and wrong, unlike your god apparently.

[Gen]

I have a sense of right and wrong, unlike your god apparently.

Maybe this all is destiny, it was suposed to happen

[Sweeney]

I never stated that I believe in church at all. I have nothing agaisn't abortion, instead that I think that there's a life there. But in case of risk to the mom and the baby, or the baby is dead, abortion could save lifes. I believe in evolution either. But I also believe that there must be someone behind all this.

Right.
You believe in someone who helps you get home for pizza, but doesn't save the lives hundreds of people who die meaninglessly every day.
You believe in someone who keeps sick children alive, but leaves them sick.

Yeah, I can see you really thought your beliefs through well.

(And by the way... you can't abort a foetus that's already dead... )

[Gen]

Right.
You believe in someone who helps you get home for pizza, but doesn't save the lives hundreds of people who die meaninglessly every day.
You believe in someone who keeps sick children alive, but leaves them sick.

Yeah, I can see you really thought your beliefs through well.

(And by the way... you can't abort a foetus that's already dead... )

(Would the mom have to carry the foetus while he's dead? )

I said more than once that the pizza thing was just an example of god proving to me that he exists. Sometimes when you're frighten(crap is wrong I forgot how to write this word right, but you know what I mean), praying helps a lot to get you calm. I think that I can't prove to you that god exists, because every thing I said, you try to disprove, so I hope that you can find your way. I won't question about your faith anymore, I believe in god, you don't, but I hope we both can have happy lives. Also, about lots of children sick, is our fault yes. If the imperialist race didn't happen people in Africa would still live in their tribes... As well as if america wasn't discovered. We are in the way we are because of our deeds. Europe wasted their resources. Came to us all. Conquered, killed. Sometimes in name of god. But did the church end? Even with so many dirty things, the church is still there, it's been around 1900 years now...

Edited by Banhammer, 23 February 2008 - 08:49 AM.

[Sweeney]

(Would the mom have to carry the foetus while he's dead? )

I said more than once that the pizza thing was just an example of god proving to me that he exists. Sometimes when you're frighten(crap is wrong I forgot how to write this word right, but you know what I mean), praying helps a lot to get you calm. I think that I can't prove to you that god exists, because every thing I said, you try to disprove, so I hope that you can find your way. I won't question about your faith anymore, I believe in god, you don't, but I hope we both can have happy lives. Also, about lots of children sick, is our fault yes. If the imperialist race didn't happen people in Africa would still live in their tribes... As well as if america wasn't discovered. We are in the way we are because of our deeds. Europe wasted their resources. Came to us all. Conquered, killed. Sometimes in name of god. But did the church end? Even with so many dirty things, the church is still there, it's been around 1900 years now...

That's not abortion. Do you have any idea what you're talking about at all?

Many things can calm a person when they're frightened. Prayer is one of them. Deep breathing exercises is another. Meditation is yet another. It's funny how the mental state people engaging in any one of these things is nearly identical, and yet you can still be dishonest enough to assert that one of them is special.

Also, I am happy to accept that the spread of disease can be the fault of mankind. Obviously, if we were all neanderthals living in caves, AIDs wouldn't have spread nearly as far, or as fast. But it'd still be around, and it'd still be causing suffering for people who don't deserve it.

You cannot prove to me that God exists, for the simple reason that there is no proof. But that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about the logical extrapolations of your belief in an interventionist God. Apparently, though, you can't stick to that, and want to introduce diversions about colonialist Europe.

Whatever. I suggest, though, that you think long and hard about the realistic implications of your beliefs, and see if they hold up to honest scrutiny.
Somehow, I doubt that they will.

[adonis]

It seems to me that if you believe in evolution, the Creation story cannot be played out in full--The six days of work, Adam and Eve, the tree of knowledge and the tree of good and evil. It becomes a convoluted half-truth or simple parable.

Honestly who would have a conception of time as there was no Earth or a Sun in order to measure that time as we do now. Perhaps a Celestial Day is 800million years

Oh of course! Why didn't I realise?
Obviously the AIDs epidemic in Africa is the fault of humans! And cancer, well, that must be our fault too. It's so clear now.

Well I think we can blame AIDs on lonely ethiopian rednecks so yeah man did that.

And if take note to just how quickly cancer rates are rising and cross that with the increase in consumption of processed foods and ground water contaimination....well man may well be responsible for that too

Edited by adonis, 23 February 2008 - 09:04 AM.

[Gen]

That's not abortion. Do you have any idea what you're talking about at all?

Many things can calm a person when they're frightened. Prayer is one of them. Deep breathing exercises is another. Meditation is yet another. It's funny how the mental state people engaging in any one of these things is nearly identical, and yet you can still be dishonest enough to assert that one of them is special.

Also, I am happy to accept that the spread of disease can be the fault of mankind. Obviously, if we were all neanderthals living in caves, AIDs wouldn't have spread nearly as far, or as fast. But it'd still be around, and it'd still be causing suffering for people who don't deserve it.

You cannot prove to me that God exists, for the simple reason that there is no proof. But that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about the logical extrapolations of your belief in an interventionist God. Apparently, though, you can't stick to that, and want to introduce diversions about colonialist Europe.

Whatever. I suggest, though, that you think long and hard about the realistic implications of your beliefs, and see if they hold up to honest scrutiny.
Somehow, I doubt that they will.

For somereason I remember about something in my country's law envolving abortion and dead foetus
About the clinic thing you said before, a church in my country was agaisn't condoms and pills .
And you still can't convince me that god doesn't exist . If you find a real reason or a real motive to convince me, please tell me, I'll be open to hear(or read) . About the church, some stuff are wrong and some stuff are right(what they do). But as a common person I don't think that I should judge if this is wrong or right. Maybe what once my dad told was not wrong. About the fact that there's no good and evil, but opinions...(Again I'm going off-topic, sorry)

EDIT: And I agree with you about the illness thing you said.

Edited by Banhammer, 23 February 2008 - 09:10 AM.

[Sweeney]

Well I think we can blame AIDs on lonely ethiopian rednecks so yeah man did that.

And if take note to just how quickly cancer rates are rising and cross that with the increase in consumption of processed foods and ground water contaimination....well man may well be responsible for that too

I think you're confused.

Noone is responsible for AIDs, or cancer. Our lifestyles may increase the incidences, but noone caused it to occur in the first place.

And blaming AIDs on "ethopian rednecks"? You express a bigoted, ignorant opinion like that in my presence again, and your funtime on Codex will end.

[Waser Lave]

For somereason I remember about something in my country's law envolving abortion and dead foetus
About the clinic thing you said before, a church in my country was agaisn't condoms and pills .
And you still can't convince me that god doesn't exist . If you find a real reason or a real motive to convince me, please tell me, I'll be open to hear(or read) . About the church, some stuff are wrong and some stuff are right(what they do). But as a common person I don't think that I should judge if this is wrong or right. Maybe what once my dad told was not wrong. About the fact that there's no good and evil, but opinions...(Again I'm going off-topic, sorry)

What would prove to you that god doesn't exist?

[Sweeney]

For somereason I remember about something in my country's law envolving abortion and dead foetus
About the clinic thing you said before, a church in my country was agaisn't condoms and pills .
And you still can't convince me that god doesn't exist . If you find a real reason or a real motive to convince me, please tell me, I'll be open to hear(or read) . About the church, some stuff are wrong and some stuff are right(what they do). But as a common person I don't think that I should judge if this is wrong or right. Maybe what once my dad told was not wrong. About the fact that there's no good and evil, but opinions...(Again I'm going off-topic, sorry)

Your failure to comprehend the topic of conversation is impressive.
I am not trying to convince you of god's nonexistence.

And again, you're expressing your disturbing sheep mentality. "As a common person I don't think I should judge if this is wrong or right".
Basically, what you're saying is "Tell me what to think".

[Gen]

What would prove to you that god doesn't exist?

IDK

Also, Joe, the meaning of this topic was to prove why people think that god exists, and I gave a lot of reasons of my belief. I said that my motives are because I think that god is love, and he can show us that even in the middle of so much war and pain we can have some hope and something to believe in...

[Sweeney]

IDK

Also, Joe, the meaning of this topic was to prove why people think that god exists, and I gave a lot of reasons of my belief. I said that my motives are because I think that god is love, and he can show us that even in the middle of so much war and pain we can have some hope and something to believe in...

"Because it's nice" is no reason to believe in something.
You can't have hope without god? A sad state of affairs.

But we're done here. There's no point discussing something with someone who can't follow your line of argument.

[Gen]

"Because it's nice" is no reason to believe in something.
You can't have hope without god? A sad state of affairs.

But we're done here. There's no point discussing something with someone who can't follow your line of argument.

I gave you my reasons. I have enough faith on god and it's very stable. Plus, I don't have to prove anything to you. Sean asked why we christians believe in god and I answered. We're done

[Germ]

Not that I am against Christianity or anything, though I have always wondered this. Why is it the bible is written in so many different ways. I go to the store and I see a bible for sale all made by different authors. Certainly a bible should not be for sale in the first place, though how do you know which tells the truth and which doesn't if all of them say different things?

[Hawk]

Not that I am against Christianity or anything, though I have always wondered this. Why is it the bible is written in so many different ways. I go to the store and I see a bible for sale all made by different authors. Certainly a bible should not be for sale in the first place, though how do you know which tells the truth and which doesn't if all of them say different things?

Different authors? Maybe if its a Bible with parts that help explain it to you.
There are different translations, though. Just compare the King James version with the New International Version and you will see what I'm talking about. They all say the same things, just... well... differently, because of the dialect of the time period.

[adonis]

Not that I am against Christianity or anything, though I have always wondered this. Why is it the bible is written in so many different ways. I go to the store and I see a bible for sale all made by different authors. Certainly a bible should not be for sale in the first place, though how do you know which tells the truth and which doesn't if all of them say different things?

Inately the bible is flawed since it is written by man. Furthermore history is written by the winners of wars not the losers. A great deal of the original content has been lost through the present day mutations of that transcript. I never seen it as some people do as far as a a historical document but more as a guide to live by. welcom to the 21st century where marketing and money is the number one concern not the spreading of truth....I'm kinda waiting for a rewritten version with more sex and violence to come out.

[Germ]

Different authors? Maybe if its a Bible with parts that help explain it to you.
There are different translations, though. Just compare the King James version with the New International Version and you will see what I'm talking about. They all say the same things, just... well... differently, because of the dialect of the time period.

Right, but there are more then just those two versions. So wouldn't the someone who wants a bible, and doesn't know which one to choose may choose the wrong one that says different things then the ones you mentioned? o.O It would be very hard for someone who WANTS to begin believing Christianity with all the different translations.

Just to let it out there. I am against abortion. Yes, I was told it was wrong, but the reason I was told makes very clear sense. Taking an innocent persons life away because the parents could not support the child is very wrong. The parents should think twice before having sex.

[adonis]

I think you're confused.

Noone is responsible for AIDs, or cancer. Our lifestyles may increase the incidences, but noone caused it to occur in the first place.

And blaming AIDs on "ethopian rednecks"? You express a bigoted, ignorant opinion like that in my presence again, and your funtime on Codex will end.

You really should look to lighten up a bit. I tried to lighten up the board as it was getting a bit too tense to the point where someone would say something they would indeed regret. Religion is one of those topics that is just taboo on any forum due to the fact it always starts as an intelligent debate that always turns into flamming as soon as the pseudointellectual athiest with no beliefs to defend attacks someone of faith. A lot of people take what they belive to heart. hmm kinda why they call it faith by chance.

Now about the whole ethiopian redneck thing -.- Perception =/= Reality. If you really have that kinda dry sense of humor that you didn't understand it was a joke...ooh well sorry. Perhaps either I haven't made enough of an attempt to let people know my personality on these boards or perhaps you haven't made the attempt to get to know it. If by chance you are making the accusation of me being a bigoted person or ignorant heh your pretty well mistaken.

[Sweeney]

You really should look to lighten up a bit. I tried to lighten up the board as it was getting a bit too tense to the point where someone would say something they would indeed regret. Religion is one of those topics that is just taboo on any forum due to the fact it always starts as an intelligent debate that always turns into flamming as soon as the pseudointellectual athiest with no beliefs to defend attacks someone of faith. A lot of people take what they belive to heart. hmm kinda why they call it faith by chance.

Now about the whole ethiopian redneck thing -.- Perception =/= Reality. If you really have that kinda dry sense of humor that you didn't understand it was a joke...ooh well sorry. Perhaps either I haven't made enough of an attempt to let people know my personality on these boards or perhaps you haven't made the attempt to get to know it. If by chance you are making the accusation of me being a bigoted person or ignorant heh your pretty well mistaken.

Or perhaps you don't realise that a serious discussion on the AIDs epidemic in Africa isn't the place to make a racist joke?

Get a clue.

[adonis]

Or perhaps you don't realise that a serious discussion on the AIDs epidemic in Africa isn't the place to make a racist joke?

Get a clue.

I would like to know what makes the joke racial. Lets face facts every culture and region has people within it that do not have the social skill to become successfull. And in turn they are in general more ignorant than thier peers.These are qualities that have absolutely no ethnic restraints. I threw in the "redneck" reference to make as a clue it a bit easier for people to link as it is a common term for someone who would fit the profile of a person that would try to have intercourse with a primative primate. I figured if someone were to be offeneded it would be by the beasiality reference hmmmm.

[SupermanFTM]

I'm sorry, does any one else think it's silly to debate over something that is not and probably never will be provable or observable? It's not like you can change some one's views that easily, and as for discussing it, it appears to me that anyone who has the right to do so already knows the majority there is to know about it, at least, as far as debatable origin knowledge goes. Religion is religion, and I have a feeling it's not going anywhere. For better or for worse.

I'm agnostic myself, in case anyone cares or feels like bringing it up.

[Sean]

Don't be so sceptical, it's entirely plausible that an omnipotent being could decide, after an infinite amount of time, to create a whole universe just for human existence solely as a test which lasts on average for around 75 years, upon successful completion of which individuals are entered into paradise for infinity.

I laughed AND smiled.

This whole conversation is silly. My original post was harsh, but honestly.. I just want answers. I ask religious people almost daily WHY they believe what they do. Nobody gives me a straight answer. Most of the time it comes down to how they were raised. One girl went as far as to tell me that she believes in God because her parents told her to.

I just find the whole concept to be ridiculous. It's sort of like how many Christians think that EVERY other religion's ideas are silly. Isn't that ignorant to say that you're beliefs are correct and their's aren't?

What sounds more silly:
Live your life and accept some omnipotent being into your heart, and when you die you will go and live in eternal paradise for an infinite amount time..
or
When you die for Allah you will be rewarded by having 50 young virgins at your disposal in paradise.

They are both equally ridiculous. Why? Well, the first one could actually BE the second one. If you're idea of paradise is 50 virgins.. well..

It's just all very self-centered.

Now prove me wrong.

[Sweeney]

I would like to know what makes the joke racial. Lets face facts every culture and region has people within it that do not have the social skill to become successfull. And in turn they are in general more ignorant than thier peers.These are qualities that have absolutely no ethnic restraints. I threw in the "redneck" reference to make as a clue it a bit easier for people to link as it is a common term for someone who would fit the profile of a person that would try to have intercourse with a primative primate. I figured if someone were to be offeneded it would be by the beasiality reference hmmmm.

Are you expressing the belief that AIDs came from monkeys?

Sorry, I should clarify, from sex with monkeys, since HIV did arise in non-human primates first.