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#76 adonis

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 05:50 PM

QUOTE (Sunscorch)
Are you expressing the belief that AIDs came from monkeys?

Sorry, I should clarify, from sex with monkeys, since HIV did arise in non-human primates first.



Quite honestly, on a serious note... yes. Given how similar genetically humans and lower primates are I do not find it inconcievable that in fact the HIV virus did spread from apes to humans.

#77 Sweeney

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 05:52 PM

QUOTE (adonis @ Feb 24 2008, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quite honestly, on a serious note... yes. Given how similar genetically humans and lower primates are I do not find it inconcievable that in fact the HIV virus did spread from apes to humans.

Yes, it probably did.
But not through intercourse.

#78 dragonlady

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 08:45 PM

Why do all believers have to be lumped in with the Christians?

I'm Wiccan, I believe in God. I also believe in the possibilities offered by the Big Bang theory, and who can deny evolution when it's a process we witness still today?

The Bible was written by people-fallible, poorly educated and misled, superstitious people. It's a book of mostly fairy tales and borrowed myths-and not even an accurated translated one at that. As much as it has been censored and raped since it was written and compiled, I honestly don't know why even the Christians pay it any mind.

I see points here about dinosaurs, the chronology of events, etc listed here as if they are evidence that there is no God. WTF?

Those are ONLY points that the bible is crap. Who really doesn't already know that deep down? That doesn't in any way effect the answer to the big question.

Christianity literally forced itself violently into existence and popularity, but today we are free to make these choices on our own. Anyone who isn't content with following blindly, not questioning the wool over their eyes will quickly see it for what it is-and when you get down to it it's an insult to our intelligence as a race huh.gif

But there is a whole world of possibilities between Atheism and Christianity. As an atheist, as you read and learn about astronomy and the big bang, or the processes of evolution, about life and energy in general.....do you really not ever question the orchestration?

And the AIDS virus was spread from chimps to humans, but the whole intercourse thing was just ignorance. As is blaming any race or creed.

This isn't the best written article, but it explains the science of the formation of the virus itself, and the possibilities of how it migrated from one species to another http://www.avert.org/origins.htm

#79 sonic

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 08:09 PM

QUOTE (Hawk @ Feb 23 2008, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Different authors? Maybe if its a Bible with parts that help explain it to you.
There are different translations, though. Just compare the King James version with the New International Version and you will see what I'm talking about. tongue.gif They all say the same things, just... well... differently, because of the dialect of the time period.


LOL.
Not alot of time to read this whole topic. Just wanted to catch this.
The new testimate has many authors. Four of them being Mathew, Mark, Luke and John.

QUOTE (Sean @ Feb 23 2008, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I laughed AND smiled. smile.gif

This whole conversation is silly. My original post was harsh, but honestly.. I just want answers. I ask religious people almost daily WHY they believe what they do. Nobody gives me a straight answer. Most of the time it comes down to how they were raised. One girl went as far as to tell me that she believes in God because her parents told her to.

I just find the whole concept to be ridiculous. It's sort of like how many Christians think that EVERY other religion's ideas are silly. Isn't that ignorant to say that you're beliefs are correct and their's aren't?

What sounds more silly:
Live your life and accept some omnipotent being into your heart, and when you die you will go and live in eternal paradise for an infinite amount time..
or
When you die for Allah you will be rewarded by having 50 young virgins at your disposal in paradise.

They are both equally ridiculous. Why? Well, the first one could actually BE the second one. If you're idea of paradise is 50 virgins.. well.. rolleyes.gif

It's just all very self-centered.

Now prove me wrong.


Come on now. There is a whole world out there. Don't assume you understand EVERYONES feelings and judgments.
There is a huge difference in people who are religous and people who are spiritual.

#80 Sean

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 08:42 PM

QUOTE (Sonic @ Feb 24 2008, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LOL.
Not alot of time to read this whole topic. Just wanted to catch this.
The new testimate has many authors. Four of them being Mathew, Mark, Luke and John.



Come on now. There is a whole world out there. Don't assume you understand EVERYONES feelings and judgments.
There is a huge difference in people who are religous and people who are spiritual.

I don't see how what you are saying is relevant to my post. And of course there is a different. It's possible to be spiritual without being religious. Actually, as soon as I'm finished with the book I am currently reading (Everything you know about God is wrong), I'm going to read a book called An Atheist's Guide To Spirituality, or something along those lines. Maybe I will be able to provide more insight when I am done with it.

#81 sonic

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 09:46 PM

QUOTE (Cody @ Feb 24 2008, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I personally think you are all looking at in your own way. It's the way you see things...As long as you are satisfied with yourself spiritually, then it really doesn't matter what you believe in. I personally believe that all of the holy books throughout history hold a lot of good information and that you should read them for morals and things like that... and not as the literal word of god. I think when we accept everyone's ideas for what they are and we all each other to all coexist, I think the world will be much better off.

Just my opinion, however. wink.gif

PLUR!


That is about the same thing I said earlyer in this topic.
Me and you cody, are one in the same.
Cept I dont do alot of drugs, and if i remember right, you did.
But hey, I dont judge. Im sure you dont like to beat off with a strobe light on, but I do.
Sometimes tongue.gif

QUOTE (Sean @ Feb 24 2008, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't see how what you are saying is relevant to my post. And of course there is a different. It's possible to be spiritual without being religious. Actually, as soon as I'm finished with the book I am currently reading (Everything you know about God is wrong), I'm going to read a book called An Atheist's Guide To Spirituality, or something along those lines. Maybe I will be able to provide more insight when I am done with it.


And yes you will have to post a review of that second book. It sounds interesting.
And yes, after re-reading your post, I realized my response was based on the entire attitude of all your posts in this topic, and I know that that is a horrible assumption to make considering people feel different all the time! sorry.

#82 Cataliste

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 10:24 PM

QUOTE (Blizzard @ Feb 21 2008, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All sience has is the big bang theory and the string theory on how we came to be, but logic says that nothing can not creat anything.

Some how someone or something made everything.

Epic fucking phail. Please tell me someone else caught this. I didn't bother reading past his post.

QUOTE (Blizzard @ Feb 21 2008, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just like evolution I can say the same thing all it is, is a theory, which has its doubts.

http://newsinfo.iu.e...ormal/1160.html

Read it.

By definition (in my own words) evolution is the process of random mutations in a population, and the mutations that increase an organism chance of survival are (more likely to be) passed on into future generations. From the article you can tell the E. coli bacteria are mutating in order to be more advantageous in their search for food.

Over time this (it's very slow) changes the organism until it is no longer what it used to be.

Edited by Cataliste, 24 February 2008 - 10:25 PM.


#83 sonic

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 12:51 AM

QUOTE (Cataliste @ Feb 24 2008, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Epic fucking phail. Please tell me someone else caught this. I didn't bother reading past his post.


I just ignore such things.


#84 Tetiel

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 02:33 PM

QUOTE (Amagius @ Feb 22 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Technically, when the Old Testament is translated, the word "yom," which refers to a literal day is used. While it is is a possibility that when Genesis was recorded that it was open to figurative language, Hebrew is also known to be a very precise language, and as such, leans towards a literal meaning.

Also, the first five books of the Old Testament, the Pentateuch, were, by majority belief, recorded by Moses through divine inspiration. Following that point, the Israelites used a very specific and taxing methodology to pass down their scrolls. I'm not saying the possibility of edits are out of the scope of thought, but it must've occurred very early and in limited exposure.

I don't mean this offensively, but I still struggle to see how Christianity and evolution can actually mix. When you look at the amount of references to Adam in other books of the Bible, the geneology lists, et cetera, it seems to call for a fairly literal interpretation of the Creation tale.

Sorry for the semi-late response and if this sounds kind of non-nonsensical to you I apologize again. Sick with the stomach flu sooooo... I probably shouldn't even be in the debate section of the board since obviously nothing I say will make sense.

Yeah I don't really no much about that. Perhaps what I had heard was the greek word for day or something. I'm just a hypocritical christian. What can I say? I... oh this sounds so horrible... it really does... but I tend to almost take a lot of things in Genesis with a big grain of salt. I think a lot of things after that are fairly accurate as there are a lot of parts of the bible like the genealogy which are very well documented and such. Well of course if you're not descendant from a certain line you're screwed with knowing who your ancestors are but anyways...

I'm just more of a spiritual christian I guess. I go for Christianity I guess some of you harsh athiests would say... a crutch. And you know what? I don't give a shit if any of you judge me for it because I'm happy. I like my little church community and I like my feeling that God exists. I don't take the bible literally and some hardcore Christians would probably say I'm going to hell for it but I have found my own way to believe. I just don't see how there's possibly anything wrong with that.

Sorry Amiagius. That response isn't all to you. It's to this whole topic pretty much so don't take it like I'm thinking you attacked me or anything which I don't tongue.gif You've been very civil.

#85 ShadowLink64

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 03:08 PM

QUOTE (Cataliste @ Feb 25 2008, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Epic fucking phail. Please tell me someone else caught this. I didn't bother reading past his post.

Cata, others are entitled to their own opinion also. If you can reassure me that you'll respect people's opinions in this thread in the future, I'll let this off as a verbal warn and be on my way since I know that others don't like being called "epic fucking phail[s]". I know you may not agree with the opinion, but they will stick by whatever beliefs they have and you will stick by yours.

Thanks. wink.gif

#86 Sean

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 06:52 PM

QUOTE (ShadowLink64 @ Feb 25 2008, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cata, others are entitled to their own opinion also. If you can reassure me that you'll respect people's opinions in this thread in the future, I'll let this off as a verbal warn and be on my way since I know that others don't like being called "epic fucking phail[s]". I know you may not agree with the opinion, but they will stick by whatever beliefs they have and you will stick by yours.

Thanks. wink.gif

I think it was more about how his post made no sense and completely contradicted himself tongue.gif

#87 thomast

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 07:11 PM

QUOTE (Sean @ Feb 21 2008, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dear Christians,

I don't understand you. You believe in things that are obviously fake, but are certain are true. You believe in things that were made up before we had any understanding of science as an answer to people's questions. Some believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, despite proof provided by Radiocarbon Dating.

You tell me you've seen God, but then tell me you he can't be seen. I tell you that religion is a crutch, and simply something to guide you to the right path, and you tell me, "No! When I let God into my heart, I no longer needed drugs or to steal." But did you not just prove my point? I tell you that you only believe in God because you are scared of burning in Hell for all eternity. Of course you say no, but you can't tell my what your motives for religion are.

So please, explain yourself to me. Why do you believe in God. How can you accept something that was written before any modern science was created, and tell me that these proven things are wrong? I really would love to know.

Sincerely,
Sean



u cant say suck blastfame(hope thats how u speel it) youll go straight to hell

#88 Sean

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 07:26 PM

QUOTE (thomast @ Feb 25 2008, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
u cant say suck blastfame(hope thats how u speel it) youll go straight to hell

Thank you for your well thought out retort to my original post. It is obvious that you have taken the time to read this topic to see where we are now. It's also clear that you won your 4th grade spelling bee last year because apparently I've been spelling blasphemy all wrong this whole times. Thanks for fixing my error.

On a serious note:

Edited by Sean, 25 February 2008 - 07:27 PM.


#89 Cataliste

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:14 PM

QUOTE (Sean @ Feb 25 2008, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it was more about how his post made no sense and completely contradicted himself tongue.gif

Yes. Thank you. He can believe what he wants. I was just pointing out the massive contradiction.

#90 ShadowLink64

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:22 PM

QUOTE (Cataliste @ Feb 25 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes. Thank you. He can believe what he wants. I was just pointing out the massive contradiction.

Alright, then I owe you an apology. Just try and be a bit nicer next time. tongue.gif

#91 Ives

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:37 PM

"So, when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, if you go for all these fairy tales, that "evil" woman convinced the man to eat the apple, but the apple came from the Tree of Knowledge. And the punishment that was then handed down, the woman gets to bleed and the guy's got to go to work, is the result of a man desiring, because his woman suggested that it would be a good idea, that he get all the knowledge that was supposedly the property and domain of God. So, that right away sets up Christianity as an anti-intellectual religion. You never want to be that smart. If you're a woman, it's going to be running down your leg, and if you're a guy, you're going to be in the salt mines for the rest of your life. So, just be a dumb fuck and you'll all go to heaven. That's the subtext of Christianity."

Frank Zappa


#92 Sean

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:45 PM

As a very, very late clear up. I'm not anti God, or anything like that.. just very much anti super Christian. As in believing all the silly little fairy tales of the bible. Or the majority of the bible at that. So if you are a believer, but not in a literal sense of the the bible.. more power to you? tongue.gif

#93 Amagius

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:58 PM

QUOTE (Tetiel @ Feb 25 2008, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry for the semi-late response and if this sounds kind of non-nonsensical to you I apologize again. Sick with the stomach flu sooooo... I probably shouldn't even be in the debate section of the board since obviously nothing I say will make sense.

Yeah I don't really no much about that. Perhaps what I had heard was the greek word for day or something. I'm just a hypocritical christian. What can I say? I... oh this sounds so horrible... it really does... but I tend to almost take a lot of things in Genesis with a big grain of salt. I think a lot of things after that are fairly accurate as there are a lot of parts of the bible like the genealogy which are very well documented and such. Well of course if you're not descendant from a certain line you're screwed with knowing who your ancestors are but anyways...

I'm just more of a spiritual christian I guess. I go for Christianity I guess some of you harsh athiests would say... a crutch. And you know what? I don't give a shit if any of you judge me for it because I'm happy. I like my little church community and I like my feeling that God exists. I don't take the bible literally and some hardcore Christians would probably say I'm going to hell for it but I have found my own way to believe. I just don't see how there's possibly anything wrong with that.

Sorry Amiagius. That response isn't all to you. It's to this whole topic pretty much so don't take it like I'm thinking you attacked me or anything which I don't tongue.gif You've been very civil.


I can fully understand. Whenever I think back on when I was of the most pious nature, the church community was a very enjoyable aspect. Also, I occasionally still wish I had some type of spiritual connection; the concept of conviction, or belief, in that mode of ideology is quite powerful.

Hope you get over the stomach flu quickly.

#94 Cataliste

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:59 PM

QUOTE (Sean @ Feb 25 2008, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a very, very late clear up. I'm not anti God, or anything like that.. just very much anti super Christian. As in believing all the silly little fairy tales of the bible. Or the majority of the bible at that. So if you are a believer, but not in a literal sense of the the bible.. more power to you? tongue.gif

Power is the last thing the Christians need....

#95 sonic

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 11:49 PM

QUOTE (Athean @ Feb 25 2008, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"So, when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, if you go for all these fairy tales, that "evil" woman convinced the man to eat the apple, but the apple came from the Tree of Knowledge. And the punishment that was then handed down, the woman gets to bleed and the guy's got to go to work, is the result of a man desiring, because his woman suggested that it would be a good idea, that he get all the knowledge that was supposedly the property and domain of God. So, that right away sets up Christianity as an anti-intellectual religion. You never want to be that smart. If you're a woman, it's going to be running down your leg, and if you're a guy, you're going to be in the salt mines for the rest of your life. So, just be a dumb fuck and you'll all go to heaven. That's the subtext of Christianity."

Frank Zappa


Ah Frank Zappa, the sad thing is, most people on this forum is to young to know who Zappa is. I only know him for his snazzy guitar licks. Oh and "Watch out were the huskies go, dont you eat that yellow snow."

#96 Sean

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 09:18 PM

QUOTE (Sonic @ Feb 24 2008, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And yes you will have to post a review of that second book. It sounds interesting.
And yes, after re-reading your post, I realized my response was based on the entire attitude of all your posts in this topic, and I know that that is a horrible assumption to make considering people feel different all the time! sorry.

Alright, so I started reading it (only got to page 25 as I was reading it at a friends house) and it's very interesting! The proper title is The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality, and unlike the other book that I was reading, it shows both sides. The author isn't a violent "I hate religion" atheist like the authors of the other book I was reading, but rather a modern day philosopher who just tries to show how religion in today's world may or may not be necessary.

He talks about how, for him, he does not need religion, but that doesn't mean that others feel the same way. Some people feel the need to believe in something greater than them and rely on this deity, or maybe just look to it's teachings for moral guidance. He shows his interpretation of different words such as religion and sacred. He shows them in two lights and lets the reader choose which one is more appropriate for themselves.

Also discussed is how in religion you have faith and fidelity. He defines fidelity as your moral ideas, how you know right from wrong, etc. He goes on to say how you are able to drop faith, but if fidelity is dropped, then the whole aspect of society will be lost. Some people feel that they need or want their faith to keep their fidelity, and that is just fine. But without either, you being nihilistic and that is not a proper humane way to live. If everybody was nihilistic, then society in general couldn't function.

Any ways, it's an extremely interesting book and I look forward to reading more of it. I've only read 25 pages of this book and it's already changed my perspective on religion and the human kind. It's an A+ read for anybody, religious or not!

Edited by Sean, 28 February 2008 - 09:22 PM.


#97 sonic

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 09:40 PM

QUOTE (Sean @ Feb 28 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Alright, so I started reading it (only got to page 25 as I was reading it at a friends house) and it's very interesting! The proper title is The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality, and unlike the other book that I was reading, it shows both sides. The author isn't a violent "I hate religion" atheist like the authors of the other book I was reading, but rather a modern day philosopher who just tries to show how religion in today's world may or may not be necessary.

He talks about how, for him, he does not need religion, but that doesn't mean that others feel the same way. Some people feel the need to believe in something greater than them and rely on this deity, or maybe just look to it's teachings for moral guidance. He shows his interpretation of different words such as religion and sacred. He shows them in two lights and lets the reader choose which one is more appropriate for themselves.

Also discussed is how in religion you have faith and fidelity. He defines fidelity as your moral ideas, how you know right from wrong, etc. He goes on to say how you are able to drop faith, but if fidelity is dropped, then the whole aspect of society will be lost. Some people feel that they need or want their faith to keep their fidelity, and that is just fine. But without either, you being nihilistic and that is not a proper humane way to live. If everybody was nihilistic, then society in general couldn't function.

Any ways, it's an extremely interesting book and I look forward to reading more of it. I've only read 25 pages of this book and it's already changed my perspective on religion and the human kind. It's an A+ read for anybody, religious or not!


Sounds VERY interesting. I am going to have to pick this up.


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