152 replies to this topic

[Grizzly]

Age has nothing to do with.
Know nothing about it? I smoked it for 6 years straight and have various friends and family who do it regularly and had made my own opinons based on fact; but not the fact I want to smoke it in my own home.
Great, you're a virgin, so what?

So you've started smoking since you were 12? Quit spitting bull shit. You've just seen a couple of burned out stoners and you read a silly article about brain damage and suddenly you're stubbornly convinced that it's harmful.

And what, you've licked a puddy tat or two in you're life and now you're god?

Real mature, asshole.

You cannot take two things, put them together and say ridiculous things because they happen to correlate.

Drug use and the brain are connected. Drug use and mental well being are connected. Drug use and time spent on a website are not.

Also, here is some stuff from a stats book I bought:


And as a final note, do not fucking teach me about how correlation is not causation. I've heard your argument several times, I've countered it every single time and you've gone back to saying the studies are just correlation. Come back after you've actually done more than I have on stats. Then I might consider you to have some basis for disagreeing with me.

Gotta admit I laughed at the chairman of your model UN thing. Um... you know that means jack shit right? And it's not an argument that has any effect on the debate topic.

lol wow your cockiness has no limit Kitsune. I don't know what you're smoking (no pun intended), but you havn't disproven jack shit. You just keep throwing up arbitrary information that doesn't prove a damn thing. These studies still don't mean shit, and I've had to repeat myself several times because you're too stubborn to take a second and try to consider that.

So fucking what? Nonexperimental results don't always have inferior results. So suddenly you're experiments are definitve? Not at all. I can't argue with your flawed logic anymore.

God damn it's insulting for the two biggest nerds to think they're so fucking superior. Really.. work on your egos.

Gotta admit I laughed at the chairman of your model UN thing. Um... you know that means jack shit right? And it's not an argument that has any effect on the debate topic.

I understand it has nothing to do with the debate topic.. I was responding to Frizzle telling me I don't know shit about debating when Yale Model UN and Washington U Model UN recognize that I know my fair share.. Have you read anything I've written or do you just like to twist everything I say in that deranged little mind of your's?

Edited by Freak, 25 September 2008 - 06:03 PM.

[SteWieH]

haha for coming back to a topic like this <3 basically in short they also wanna control hemp control because they know it better then cotton. but they want cotton to be the standard cause you know they suck.

[Grizzly]

Justified cockiness Lets see, I've given you authoritative articles, I've explained how correlation studies can still be correct, and I've even explained how observational studies are perfectly acceptable.

And if you think you're finding it hard to argue with 'flawed logic' you should try opposing someone so sure of their hypothesis they will ignore any information to the contrary and ensure they find only the information only backs up your ideas. Do you know what that's called? Bad method.

At least I've looked at both sides I recognise your views and do believe there should be some degree of decriminalisation once the brain has fully developed.
You however have refused any alternate view.

You make it damn difficult not to be superior.

"Although classified as nonexperimental, these methods do no necessarily produce inferior results."
That really does not justify your articles whatsoever and by citing that quote as definitive information to disprove my argument shows exactly how ignorant you are being, just to prove your point.

Scientists would never accept that. Think of studies done on neurogenesis. There were studies done over two decades ago that proved that improved hormones and improved neurogenesis had a concrete positive association. But that wasn't enough. So there were studies done to inject stem cells in the brain with a dye to see exactly when/where these new neurons were being created, but that wasn't enough. They went far as to prove that these hormones increased proliferation of these cells. Still unacceptable. It was only until they found that these hormones increased survival, migration, and differentiation of the cells that scientists started to be more accepting of this concept. But furthermore, most researchers are still skeptical to the effects of hormones because they've yet to discover whether or not these new neurons integrate properly.

Yet an observation is made on 1000 people about a minute correlation and you're so gullible to accept it as hard evidence. The studies done to observe the biological factors have proven nothing which is the important part.

I thought it was painfully obvious how inconclusive these studies are given the weakness of method and the biased writing, but apparently you believe otherwise. So let's just agree that this is my educated opinion that this study means bull shit, and you think it's biblical. K?

And don't try to blame your egotistical behavior on me. I see these incidents on a good portion of your posts. So cut the BS. really.

Edited by Freak, 26 September 2008 - 11:18 AM.

[Alex]

lol yea smoking weed will make people go crazy and go on killing sprees with an axe, its reefer madness!

this whole mental illness crap is just another stage of anti-marijuana propaganda.
you have all these legal drugs that fuck people up way more than marijuana would in a lifetime of use. all the anti depression drugs for one. also you take a bunch of tylenols, you die.

stop being dogmatic

[pyke]

lol yea smoking weed will make people go crazy and go on killing sprees with an axe, its reefer madness!

One of my friends freaks right out, I think it's reason enough to keep it illegal.

[Grizzly]

One of my friends freaks right out, I think it's reason enough to keep it illegal.

Lol a lot of people bug out after one of their first moments.. probably because they get REALLY REALLY high. I bugged out the second time, but every moment after it was just blissful.

One of my friends freaks right out, I think it's reason enough to keep it illegal.

Lol a lot of people bug out after one of their first moments.. probably because they get REALLY REALLY high. I bugged out the second time, but every moment after it was just blissful.

[Frizzle]

stop being dogmatic

We're not being dogmatic, we just don't want people to become wasters. Got enough people on the dole as it is.

Also, for once I agree with you 100% Ange.

[Jakerz]

this whole mental illness crap is just another stage of anti-marijuana propaganda.
you have all these legal drugs that fuck people up way more than marijuana would in a lifetime of use. all the anti depression drugs for one. also you take a bunch of tylenols, you die.

I'm going to have to agree with Freak and Alex with this, I'm sure I could find something about it but cba checking all the links everyone has sent already so I'll simply agree with Freak's posts in this topic.

[Ives]

I'm tired of dealing with kids. When you grow up, then you can create a proper debate.

Thanks for that pointless ad hominem. It has nothing to do with age; it has to do with basic logic. If marijuana never were made illegal you almost certainly would not be arguing against its legalization right now.

FREAK:
Needless to say, I took a look at the statistics the movie had to offer and although they do provide suggestion of undeniability in the account of marijuana being the most busted drug, it doesnt really account for the mathematics of price correctly, so yeah, I was wrong. I'm not 'schooled' in 12th grade economics (I quit school before 12th grade) and my knowledge of the field comes from heavy rhetoric based sources / a few college courses which were equally as filled with more debate about policy principles than jargon and rote memorization. So I apologize for that comment. It wasn't meant to discredit your knowledge but make fun of the fact you write like most market economy aficionados.

[Frizzle]

Thanks for that pointless ad hominem. It has nothing to do with age; it has to do with basic logic. If marijuana never were made illegal you almost certainly would not be arguing against its legalization right now.

It was more pointing out freaks pathetic childness then age. And yes, you're right it wasn't made illegal then they're wouldn't be a debate to make it illegal. Thank you for that insight.

[Grizzly]

It was more pointing out freaks pathetic childness then age. And yes, you're right it wasn't made illegal then they're wouldn't be a debate to make it illegal. Thank you for that insight.

That's not what he was saying kid.. if Marijuana was and always had been legal you wouldn't argue a shit's worth that it was so. Just as how you don't argue that cigarettes and alcohol are legal; you'd simply side with the government and accept their judgement as the right way.

And there's a difference between being overly sarcastic to get an idiot's attention and being childish, I think the only one that has exhibited the latter in this debate has been you (with exception to Kitsune, but that's an obvious given)

[Charmender]

In all fairness everything thats been said about weed causing mental illness means absolute shit, Weed is less life threatning than alcohol or cigarretes yet they are legal so why not for weed?

Because tobacco and alcohol have been in the western economy for ages, far long enough for them to be taxed and regulated, weed has not and the government makes no money of it.

Its as simple as really, it has nothing to do with the health risks or any of that shit, i mean weed can help alleviate symptoms of some diseases, as can many prescription medications but i dont here you crying about their side effects because they are being pumped out by your government so thats ok right?

[pyke]

In all fairness everything thats been said about weed causing mental illness means absolute shit, Weed is less life threatning than alcohol or cigarretes yet they are legal so why not for weed?

Because tobacco and alcohol have been in the western economy for ages, far long enough for them to be taxed and regulated, weed has not and the government makes no money of it.

Its as simple as really, it has nothing to do with the health risks or any of that shit, i mean weed can help alleviate symptoms of some diseases, as can many prescription medications but i dont here you crying about their side effects because they are being pumped out by your government so thats ok right?

To be fair, there is medicinal marijuana, so wouldn't it fall under the same category as a prescription medicine?

[Ives]

It was more pointing out freaks pathetic childness then age. And yes, you're right it wasn't made illegal then they're wouldn't be a debate to make it illegal. Thank you for that insight.

To keep it illegal is a strange insight. Do you think if marijuana were legal there would be people killing each other over control of trafficking over it? No, it would be too mainstream to have any major rig on the price. On the other hand, if it were regulated like caffeine or alcohol is, there wouldn't be a reason to debate. Marijuana is so utterly harmless, even when it comes to heavy use. Most people who toke up aren't fucking morons, they're people who like their smoke in moderation. The habitual heavy users? A lot of them have a strange passion for its cultivation that would be useful to industry under legal circumstances. Only, they're not winos.

[Charmender]

Do you not think that alcohol and cigarettes are more life threatening because they are readily available to the young (not legally but still more available than weed) which in turn ensures the irresponsible and those most vulnerable are the ones most likely to abuse and get sick later on. They are more life threatening because they're able to be sold legally.

You sir are a retard, it matters not what age you have them, but the fact that too much of either is likely to kill you, wheras with weed, it isnt, just make you "mental" apparntly

[Charmender]

And you sir have been warned for flaming.

Please don't attempt to debate something when you're merely going off your own experiences and nothing more.
Do you have ANY idea how the mind develops? Do you have any clue what drugs do to the developing brain?

Until you do, shut up and get out of this topic. Also, back up what you say, it's a debate rule so stop running your mouth off without any basis to it.

And in case you are going to continue making ignorant assumptions about me saying 'weed makes you go mental' go back and read. Unless you're illiterate, you should not have got that from what I said.

You seriously need to get your head out of your arse.
Do you have any idea how little smoking weed everyday for five years will do in comparison with alcohol?
Have you ever smoked weed?
No then shut the fuck up.
Can you ever admit your wrong?

And may i remind you, this topic is about why weed is not legal, therefore all that shit about it damaging people means fuck all, as i stated earlier, the government allows people to take damagining things, and weed isn't a bad enough drug to be classed as if you take it once your hoplessly addicted or you will go out and shoot your friend in the face.
Also the LD50 for THC is 42mg/kg for humans based off rat testing, which may be slightly different as the receptors act differently but this means, "In order to create a lethal overdose, a man weighing 75 kg (164.0625 lb) has to inhale the amount of THC found in 21 grams of extremely high-potency (15% THC)"
So weed is not life threatning either.

People should be allowed to do what they want with their body as long as it causes no damage to others, the reason weed is not legal as i stated earlier is that it is too hard for the government to regulate, and to make money from.

Go ahead and warn me for saying you need to get your head out your arse if you like, but we both know is true

Also about it not mattering what age, i mean as in whether your 50 or 15 its still going to do significantly more damage than weed.
besides, wouldnt the ability to regulate it so only over 18's can get it be more of a plus for legalising weed, seriously you make yourself look like an idiot sometimes.#
In the matter of me saying weed makes you go mental i was mearly exaggirating on the claim that it may give you a slightly higher chance of developing schizophrenia

Edited by CaluM, 07 October 2008 - 10:58 AM.

[Frizzle]

That's not what he was saying kid.. if Marijuana was and always had been legal you wouldn't argue a shit's worth that it was so. Just as how you don't argue that cigarettes and alcohol are legal; you'd simply side with the government and accept their judgement as the right way.

And there's a difference between being overly sarcastic to get an idiot's attention and being childish, I think the only one that has exhibited the latter in this debate has been you (with exception to Kitsune, but that's an obvious given)

Sorry, I refuse to to take advice of a teen who thinks it cool to be rebellious against the goverment and think it's funny to drive under the influence. You're a McCormick in the making, except for he had talent.

Also, the financial benefits of sin taxes are obvious.

To keep it illegal is a strange insight. Do you think if marijuana were legal there would be people killing each other over control of trafficking over it? No, it would be too mainstream to have any major rig on the price. On the other hand, if it were regulated like caffeine or alcohol is, there wouldn't be a reason to debate. Marijuana is so utterly harmless, even when it comes to heavy use. Most people who toke up aren't fucking morons, they're people who like their smoke in moderation. The habitual heavy users? A lot of them have a strange passion for its cultivation that would be useful to industry under legal circumstances. Only, they're not winos.

The only people who deal or kill over cannabis are usually low-level gang members as there is little profit in cannabis, unless on a huge scale in which confrontation is usually avoided at all possible junctions. Cocaine is where the money is.

You say cannabis is harmless even though it causes cancer? I mean, we can debate all day long about why cannabis is legal on the mental side of the issue, but you can choose to ignore findings because they aren't 100% foolproof and being dogmatic. If you want to bury your head in the sand go ahead, but I refuse to let my children grow up thinking cannabis is an acceptable thing to be doing.

You seriously need to get your head out of your arse.
Do you have any idea how little smoking weed everyday for five years will do in comparison with alcohol?
Have you ever smoked weed?
No then shut the fuck up.
Can you ever admit your wrong?

And may i remind you, this topic is about why weed is not legal, therefore all that shit about it damaging people means fuck all, as i stated earlier, the government allows people to take damagining things, and weed isn't a bad enough drug to be classed as if you take it once your hoplessly addicted or you will go out and shoot your friend in the face.
Also the LD50 for THC is 42mg/kg for humans based off rat testing, which may be slightly different as the receptors act differently but this means, "In order to create a lethal overdose, a man weighing 75 kg (164.0625 lb) has to inhale the amount of THC found in 21 grams of extremely high-potency (15% THC)"
So weed is not life threatning either.

People should be allowed to do what they want with their body as long as it causes no damage to others, the reason weed is not legal as i stated earlier is that it is too hard for the government to regulate, and to make money from.

Go ahead and warn me for saying you need to get your head out your arse if you like, but we both know is true

Also about it not mattering what age, i mean as in whether your 50 or 15 its still going to do significantly more damage than weed.
besides, wouldnt the ability to regulate it so only over 18's can get it be more of a plus for legalising weed, seriously you make yourself look like an idiot sometimes.#
In the matter of me saying weed makes you go mental i was mearly exaggirating on the claim that it may give you a slightly higher chance of developing schizophrenia

The pysche is more easily manipulated and can cause pyschois easily at a younger age than someone who is biologically mature Calum,This is based on fact, not an opinon. I agree that Kitsune may not have first hand knowledge in weed like me and you, but then I haven't been knifed on the streets and can still have an opinon on it.

Yeah, Cannabis won't kill you or make you go insane after one toke, but long term use of the drug as anything not used in moderation will eventually take it's toll, espically on the weaker member of the species. Should we really be encouraging a drug that shortens life expectency, can cause impotence and slows down brain functions? Just because we abuse cigarettes for sin tax does not mean we should legalise it. Should we legalise coke because it causes your reactions to heighten and make you better at driving?

[SRF]

To be fair, there is medicinal marijuana, so wouldn't it fall under the same category as a prescription medicine?

Your government is retarded I swear, they call marijuana schedule 1, no possible medicinal usage, yet there are medicinal marijuana clinics which are hugely effective. I don't see why opiates and even synthetic THC are considered medically safe while marijuana isn't

Also whoever said marijuana causes cancer that has NEVER been shown, its been speculated and several studies have claimed that it does, but that was in the 70's and they have since been shown to be faulty, in the largest study of its kind no link between marijuana and cancer was found, in fact in other studies THC has been shown to shrink tumours.

http://www.washingto...2501729_pf.html
^no weed cancer link.

http://www.acsa2000....ve_tobacco.html
^why commercial tobacco causes cancer while marijuana and organic tobacco don't as much

Not to mention the fact that it is a potent anti nausient and an appetite stimulant so if you are unfortunate enough to get cancer it can get you through chemotherapy.

I really don't see why it isn't legalised, in Amsterdam when it was legalised use of crack and heroine dropped massively which is reason enough in my eyes to legalise it even if it is damaging, its not very damaging, its been used for so long all throughout history you can be pretty sure that its not going to make you go insane from one pull.

Edited by SRF, 08 October 2008 - 01:39 AM.

[Stepoo]

Also whoever said marijuana causes cancer that has NEVER been shown, its been speculated and several studies have claimed that it does, but that was in the 70's and they have since been shown to be faulty, in the largest study of its kind no link between marijuana and cancer was found, in fact in other studies THC has been shown to shrink tumours.

Not to mention the fact that you can still vaporize or make edibles.

Whenever I hear the cancer argument all I imagine is suburban soccer mom trying to scare her kid off doing drugs.

[Frizzle]

If you smoke cannabis, it can give you cancer. That is cold hard fact.

Different story if you're chomping or vapourising.

[Sida]

If you smoke cannabis, it can give you cancer. That is cold hard fact.

Different story if you're chomping or vapourising.

If you spend too much time in UV light, it can give you skin cancer. Should we ban going outdoors?

[SRF]

If you smoke cannabis, it can give you cancer. That is cold hard fact.

Different story if you're chomping or vapourising.

Congratulations for not reading my post and then posting incorrect information, smoking weed is not shown to cause cancer, organic tobacco is far less cancer causing then what is sold as well, read what i posted.

[Grizzly]

You think I'm childish? You're the one who has decided you know everything and any opinion to the contrary doesn't hold any credibility. So far I've not insulted or demeaned anyone, or resorted to cheap arguments, I've back up what I say and explained why those sources are valid. I've also considered other sides and have stated how that changes my opinion.

Look at that childish retort you've spit up at me. "No, you are!". That's pretty much consisted of this entire debate between you and me Kitsune.
Insulting? How bout saying it's hard not to feel superior over me? Or flat out laughing at my post? lol

The fact of the matter is, you certainly have been backing up and explaining your arguments.. but your arguments are weak as fuck and no explanation will change that.

That underestimates the lengths government goes to to get rid of cigarettes. Here the only building you can smoke inside is a house where you have permission to do so. There's support for quitters, the prices are reasonably high to try and get people to at least cut down, etc.

Just because there are legal evils, does not mean more should be made legal. Most flawed argument I've seen.

Do you not think that alcohol and cigarettes are more life threatening because they are readily available to the young (not legally but still more available than weed) which in turn ensures the irresponsible and those most vulnerable are the ones most likely to abuse and get sick later on. They are more life threatening because they're able to be sold legally.

Someone needs to see a documentary about the big tobacco company

And the fact that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana is universal among the medical community. A quick google search will verify that with sources like harvard.edu (and I think these researchers are smart enough to consider the effects of 1 being illegal while the other is not). And I think you fail to realize the availability of marijuana despite it being illegal.

And you sir have been warned for flaming.

Please don't attempt to debate something when you're merely going off your own experiences and nothing more.
Do you have ANY idea how the mind develops? Do you have any clue what drugs do to the developing brain?

Until you do, shut up and get out of this topic. Also, back up what you say, it's a debate rule so stop running your mouth off without any basis to it.

And in case you are going to continue making ignorant assumptions about me saying 'weed makes you go mental' go back and read. Unless you're illiterate, you should not have got that from what I said.

Ironic that you're flaming Calum just in that post.
And I think you fail to realize the validity of personal experience.. you can certainly learn more about marijuana's effects by smoking than by reading a description of it in some respects. Albeit, it doesn't give you a complete picture of its effects.. you certainly can't rule it out as ignorance.

Sorry, I refuse to to take advice of a teen who thinks it cool to be rebellious against the goverment and think it's funny to drive under the influence. You're a McCormick in the making, except for he had talent.

Also, the financial benefits of sin taxes are obvious.

It's disgusting the way you judge someone entirely on the choice they make with weed. It's even more disgusting the way you completely rely your trust on the government.. lol pathetic, really.

If you smoke cannabis, it can give you cancer. That is cold hard fact.

Different story if you're chomping or vapourising.

It theoretically can, but it is highly unlikely. Cannabis can cause cancer because of the harmful toxins involved in smoking rolling paper or blunt wraps can lead to lung cancer, just as is the case with cigarettes. You're failing to note that marijuana is nowhere near as addictive as cigarettes. And while most cigarette users with cancer smoke several cigarettes for several years, this is not the case with marijuana.

Here's another very reliable source: http://www.webmd.com...to-cause-cancer

There's a reason why marijuana is medically prescribed to cancer patients.

Edited by Freak, 09 October 2008 - 02:54 PM.

[Grizzly]

Flaming is not laughing at someone. Flaming is not telling someone to shut up. Flaming is not telling someone they need to back up what they say. Granted it may have been mean to say I felt justified in feeling superior over you, but that's an observation on my part, and your stubborn standpoint gets irritating to the point that I feel I can dismiss you as someone not worth listening to. And believe me, you're not saint in this debate.

You misunderstood what I mean by saying alcohol and cigarettes are more life threatening. I did not mean they are necessarily more life threatening than other substances, even weed. I meant they are more life threatening as a legal substance than as an illegal substance. The more available and accepted something is, the more likely abuse will occur which will increase the likelihood of health risks increasing. Making weed legal certainly has the potential to be abused in some form and/or to increase the risks (mental and physical) associated with its consumption.

well you're kind of twisting up my words again silly. That and you've fused two responses to completeeeely different posts into 1 response..
YOU SAID: I'VE NEVER BEEN INSULTING TO YOU
I SAID: YOU LAUGHED AT ME AND CALLED ME INFERIOR
Not to mention again how insulting you've been in that post.. calling me stubborn and not worth listening to.

YOU SAID: YOU'RE WARNED LOL
I SAID: IT'S FUNNY THAT YOU'VE WARNED SOMEONE AND IT THAT SAME POST TOLD THEM THEY'RE IGNORANT, SHOULD SHUT UP, GET OUT, AND LEARN TO DEBATE (just because you've used roundabout words doesn't change what you said).

Nope, I didn't misunderstand that. You've simply ignored a section of my post. But if you take a look at those studies, they examine the effects on an individual basis not on a universal basis. Thus, you can disregard that one is readily more available than the other.

I think all this just highlights a lot of my claims: why you're childish.. why you're logic is flawed.. why you don't know anything about debating.

Edited by Freak, 09 October 2008 - 03:04 PM.

[Sida]

Get a room you two. You're both as stubborn as eachother, and the fact the conversation has turned completely into who's better at debating proves it. You both have totally opposite opinions and refuse to accept anything the other side says. Instead of "I suppose...but" it's all "No because".