You ask for a source.
I give you a source from the times.
You argue that it's not a credible source.
That to me is wasting my time over insignificant details.. and the main points that we've initially been arguing have been lost in these little excursions. In particular, if you'll take a look at the thread title, you'll notice that this thread isn't even about what we've been debating.
it's not credible because you linked me to an article by a senator with a law degree, and we were talking about economists. you said "most economists" think that the bailout was a good idea. i posted a link to a petition signed by economists and then you said that most of them have since changed their mind. then i asked for a source and you linked me to said article
And let's take a look at the initial arguments.
You tried to correct me with:
"no..redlion is right. those investment banks are gone."
No, Morgan Stanley is alive. So is Goldman.
yea, they are alive but they are no longer investment banks, instead bank holding companies. that was redlion's point and i backed him up
QUOTE
"LEH is far from being alive and healthy"
I was never talking about Lehman. Misunderstanding.
i didn't misunderstand anything, you weren't clear enough
Lehman Brothers was forced to file for bankruptcy and was bought out by barclays because it could not survive, just like Bear Stearns was bought out. The government did bail out many other firms like Morgan Stanley. True, they are merging because the environment has changed now, but that doesn't mean they have "gone". They're still alive and pretty healthy.
don't blame your vague posting on me misinterpreting something..
"well first of all i'm not sure if you understand this but the money hasn't really been given out yet"
Well, for Morgan Stanley/Goldman Sachs it has. That's all I said in the first place.
how many fucking times do i have to repeat myself...
I'm assuming you misunderstood my comment. Lehman brothers obviously no longer exists. Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs benefited from the ECONOMIC BAILOUT and are still alive. That 700$ billion bailout was obviously geared towards companies like Morgan Stanley's whos troubled assets were all bought out.
i understand that you were talking about MS/GS, but when i said that the money hasn't given out yet i was trying to explain this:
the main portion of the bailout bill, the purchase of the troubled assets has not yet occurred. what has taken place is the purchases of preferred stocks, which is aimed to restore confidence and keep these dying companies afloat.
From then, you've continuously ignored many of my main points and focused on debating over details.
And now you're arguing whether the economic bail out is justified, when all I was arguing in the first place was that it saved Stanley's ass.
So I really have no more interest in arguing over these irrelevant matters.
it is you who continues to bring up these irrelevant matters, you continue to argue about whether throwing money at a company will help even though i've acknowledged this like 3-4 times already and have asked u to stop.
and because Nox actually believes the economic bail out hasn't done anyting
of course it has done something, and clearly the bailout has and will temporarily help these banks, trillions of dollars in capital will help any company in need. however... this doesn't justify the deed. understand that the bad debt is not going anywhere, it does not disappear, what this does is change who will ultimately bear this default. it's disheartening to see that we have learned nothing from what happened to Japan less than 20 years ago.
QUOTE
If you'd like to discuss the auto industry, I'm game, but otherwise stop wasting my time.
i made two posts in this thread about the auto industry already and they were ignored. you are wasting your own time here by not reading my posts, you continue to argue the same shit that i have already responded to multiple times. the only reason i really keep comin back to this thread is because you keep posting more and more dumb shit yet retain the cocky attitude. the DOW was up 2% today, this must be a period of economic growth
PS: i am sorry for all of the quotes but i refuse to repeat myself anymore