59 replies to this topic

[redlion]

Honestly, I can't even follow this damn argument anymore lol.

Thats why I moved on. I skipped you and max for about 8 posts.

[pyke]

So, did this happen then?

[Grizzly]

I'm interested on your point there. I've heard it attributed to monetary policy before, but never directly to the federal reserve. How so?

This is a pretty interesting read. "The epic whodunit"
http://www.businessw... temp_top story

So, did this happen then?

If you're referring to the auto industry bail out, they went empty handed last month. Now they're asking for more money lolz. But just today the United Auto Workers agreed to help the big 3, which might make some sort of impact apprently. Don't really get how.

[Ives]

I'm interested on your point there. I've heard it attributed to monetary policy before, but never directly to the federal reserve. How so?

What, the recession we're in, or the depression?

In the great depression the federal reserve failed to provide money for the banks (paticularly one bank in New York.) There simply wasnt enough distributed money to there and banks collapsed from that, not as much to do with gold backing as the cliched thought of keynesian yesteryear may suggest. Here in 2008, we have a more artificial situation where banks and the stock market are falling because a shaky foundation finally collapsed. The federal reserves ability to play with inflation rates and money is an extreme hindrance to the natural progression of market chaos, though they only make up a certain part of that foundation.

Edited by Athean, 03 December 2008 - 11:32 PM.

[redlion]

What, the recession we're in, or the depression?

In the great depression the federal reserve failed to provide money for the banks (paticularly one bank in New York.) There simply wasnt enough distributed money to there and banks collapsed from that, not as much to do with gold backing as the cliched thought of keynesian yesteryear may suggest. Here in 2008, we have a more artificial situation where banks and the stock market are falling because a shaky foundation finally collapsed. The federal reserves ability to play with inflation rates and money is an extreme hindrance to the natural progression of market chaos, though they only make up a certain part of that foundation.

But in the current situation, it isn't failure to provide hard currency to a bank (or assurances, whatever) its the banking system's own fault. The ability of the fed to play with inflation and currency circulation may be a hindrance to market chaos, but it also stabilizes unbalanced markets. It isn't as good as other systems of finance, but we're kind of stuck with it, aren't we? We won't go Russian and revolt because our currency is shit.

I'm just not seeing how the current failure is in any way related to the fed. It was the banking clans fucking with leverage and debt that got them into this.

[nox]

Ignored? Is it my obligation to reply to every ignorant post in this thread because I made it? tongue.gif I think not. I don't see how I'm being cocky here, especially relative to you. That's why you need to resort to personal retorts to establish yourself as superior despite your ignorance on the topic.

no.. man.. i didn't mean that you need to reply to my post, nobody responded to what i said about the autobailout so i continued to discuss the financial bailout with you. i didnt mean to offend you personally, or downplay your intelligence, if i did it was was only in response to your cocky attitude. n by cocky attitude i mean "lol u guys have no idea what ur talking about right ", "maybe you should pick up the times once in a while kiddo", etc. kind of surprises me to hear you call me ignorant on the subject after some of the stuff you posted,but whatever lol...no point in dwelling on this crap anymore. im gonna end it there and not reply to the rest of your post, it makes no sense to continue because the whole debacle turned into a debate over the semantics of what you said, i said, who misunderstood what, etc, because all of that shit is pointless.

I don't think the Fed is concerned about the health of these companies. They're concerned about the health of the economy, which in well-established economies like that of the U.S., the financial systems effect directly as we can see. That's kind of what the fed does.. use tools that first effect financial markets and then indirectly effects the general population.

They've made a few mistakes, indeed. I think nobody can replace Bernanke better tho.. he's a veteran in the field and has more experience/wisdom. It's unfair to blame him

with the way that the fed operates, it is clear that they are not concerned for the average american. after all, the only ones that truly benefit from a system based on monetary inflation are the ones at the top be it government supported contractors, banks, etc. the guys who are getting the fed's bonds, these guys who are spending the printed money are the ones profiting off such a system. the fed doesn't work for the .1% of america that it caters to, but for the average tax payer.... who sees nothing from this.

joe 6pack does not benefit from these bubbles, in fact salaries are one of the last things to increase during a period inflation. while joe's house may have gone up 200%, with his 401k appreciating as well, this does not at all help him in the long run. joe is not liquidating and reinvesting into a reliable inflation assets like gold, commodities, or reliable foreign currencies. what does happen tho is he is deceived into living far above his means, spending what he really cannot afford, taking out new mortgages, etc.

bernanke is either completely corrupt or incredibly stupid

"Given the fundamental factors in place that should support the demand for housing, we believe the effect of the troubles in the subprime sector on the broader housing market will likely be limited," Bernanke said.

blue line housing prices, oj is consumer confidence. break into 150 level marks the start of excessive leverage, previously impossible during bubbles seen throughout history

"Given the fundamental factors in place that should support the demand for housing, we believe the effect of the troubles in the subprime sector on the broader housing market will likely be limited," Bernanke said.

in regards 2 what redlion posted, it all can't be blamed on the fed. after all, there has to be an entity to abuse the poor monetary policy for these events happen. in 2004 hank paulson then the ceo of goldman sachs lobbied like crazy for the removal of the net capital rule on top banks, removing regulatory limits on leverage. short story short these banks abused the shit out of a loose monetary policy, leveraged in debt up to their eyeballs and went "unnoticed" by the sleeping regulators. it isnt possible for us to print our way out of the unserviceable debt. we are fighting the problem with the same tactics that initially caused it, by not allowing the liquidation of crappy assets to take place, we are prolonging the inevitable and piling up the pain. once that is uncovered the trillions of false gdp growth will show its face as well. we must allow bankruptcy to do its job.

apologies in adv for the crappy grammar, jumbled posting..etc lol im high and its 2am

[Reaper]

So I know these guys had to go back and make a claim, did they win or did the government turn them down? I haven't watched the news in awhile, so you guys are my channel 8 for now...lol.

[redlion]

I haven't watched the news in awhile, so you guys are my channel 8 for now...lol.

Same. I don't even have a TV within easy access. I can see why college kids view things differently now.

[Ives]

Sorry red, I kinda didnt respond because i lost my train of thought. I was kinda on a half rant/half serious thing that day so if you wanna delete my posts you can. Yay for drunkenness.

I think i was trying to say something along the lines of government policy encouraging banks and housing industries to prolong a creed of "housing for all" and "loans for all" and so forth without thinking of the real potential consequences were. In other words, they werent thinking about every side of the issue or even considering and trying to bother looking at the risks and keep them from happening in the future.

In any market economy there are going to be recessions, but the way this one has been going could have been avoided had we attempted to have any foresight. Though thats not just the fault of the government (though often in societies like America its natural to tend to the behavior that government will do it since it isnt your job, you just pay the taxes and shut the fuck up.)

[redlion]

I think i was trying to say something along the lines of government policy encouraging banks and housing industries to prolong a creed of "housing for all" and "loans for all" and so forth without thinking of the real potential consequences were. In other words, they werent thinking about every side of the issue or even considering and trying to bother looking at the risks and keep them from happening in the future.

In any market economy there are going to be recessions, but the way this one has been going could have been avoided had we attempted to have any foresight. Though thats not just the fault of the government (though often in societies like America its natural to tend to the behavior that government will do it since it isnt your job, you just pay the taxes and shut the fuck up.)

I'm agreed on the apathy of Americans, don't get me wrong. I don't think it is always necessarily the fault of the government when things go wrong, and this case is no exception. The banks did this to themselves, not politics.