1651 replies to this topic

[Delcer]

onethreezerotwo, on 28 September 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

Because I've experienced the presence, joy and work of God in my life.

That doesn't tell me very much, but I honestly didn't expect very much either.

What makes you so sure that your religion stands above all others as true when there are hundreds of other conflicting beliefs?

chicityballa, on 28 September 2011 - 03:15 PM, said:

I personally do because in my opinion some of the creations in front of us are far too amazing to believe there is no such thing as a divine figure.

In other words, because you don't understand something, you attribute it to god. Nice, there's a epitome of ignorance right there. Do you know what they used to call natural disasters? Acts of God, because they couldn't explain why they happened, kind of like the reason you believe. Any other reason you believe in fairy magic?

Edited by Delcer, 29 September 2011 - 12:24 PM.

[Glow]

I'm forced to go to religious classes, and I'd like to believe God is real, but honestly, I think it's just a fairytale made up by people who needed something to worship.


I only keep 'believing' so that my parents don't shun me. :U

[riz1]

Nobody knows

[onethreezerotwo]

Delcer, on 29 September 2011 - 12:17 PM, said:

That doesn't tell me very much, but I honestly didn't expect very much either.

What makes you so sure that your religion stands above all others as true when there are hundreds of other conflicting beliefs?



In other words, because you don't understand something, you attribute it to god. Nice, there's a epitome of ignorance right there. Do you know what they used to call natural disasters? Acts of God, because they couldn't explain why they happened, kind of like the reason you believe. Any other reason you believe in fairy magic?

Well, I for one am going to ignore your unintelligent, high-school-girl debate style. Just because this is a debate thread doesn't give you the go-ahead to be a blatantly disrespectful asshole. Just because our reasons aren't able to be comprehended or acknowledged (regardless of your belief) by your miniscule brainpower doesn't invalidate them. Congratulations, you're just another anonymous idiot online that nobody wants to be around.

EDIT: And to chicityballa, I have no idea if you do or do not understand the specific things in nature that cause you to believe in the God that you do. My college experience was extremely scientific and we delved into so many of those extraordinarily complex life systems, and all it has done is increased my belief. Just because we're in awe of the complexities of something doesn't mean that we don't understand them, or that we can't take belief from them. I would argue that it's YOUR ignorance, Delcer, that is showing.

Edited by onethreezerotwo, 30 September 2011 - 11:46 AM.

[Delcer]

onethreezerotwo, on 30 September 2011 - 11:18 AM, said:

Well, I for one am going to ignore your unintelligent, high-school-girl debate style. Just because this is a debate thread doesn't give you the go-ahead to be a blatantly disrespectful asshole. Just because our reasons aren't able to be comprehended or acknowledged (regardless of your belief) by your miniscule brainpower doesn't invalidate them. Congratulations, you're just another anonymous idiot online that nobody wants to be around.

This is the debate thread, if you're going to argue using fallacies, best be prepared to come under fire. I honestly don't really care how much you feel disrespected by the way.

Also I don't recall saying anything disrespectful to you, maybe that other guy, but not you. Though I was blunt about my feelings to the point of insincerity, there was no vitriol.

Delcer, on 29 September 2011 - 12:17 PM, said:

What makes you so sure that your religion stands above all others as true when there are hundreds of other conflicting beliefs?

Didn't answer this.

Edited by Delcer, 30 September 2011 - 11:43 AM.

[Inkheart]

Great minds discuss ideas. (Science and its painstakingly researched theories.)

Average minds discuss events. ("God made it all and now we're here.")

Small minds discuss people. ("God is there for me in my everyday life.")

[leurz]

onethreezerotwo, on 25 September 2011 - 10:44 PM, said:

I have a BS in Ecology, Evolution and Marine Biology and I believe in God, and Jesus, the ineffability of the Bible and the importance of the Church.

According to Dictionary.com, Ineffable:
1.incapable of being expressed or described in words;inexpressible: ineffable joy.
2.not to be spoken because of its sacredness; unutterable:the ineffable name of the deity.
Are you sure ineffable is the word you want to use here? If not, what did you really mean? If so, you think a book, full of words, cannot be expressed in words? That it shouldn't be read out loud?

onethreezerotwo, on 28 September 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

Because I've experienced the presence, joy and work of God in my life.

What, precisely, have you experienced which has solidified this belief?

[Inkheart]

leurz, on 01 October 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

Are you sure ineffable is the word you want to use here?

Pretty sure they were looking for "infallible". Either way, I suspect trolling, insanity, or some twisted combination thereof. "I understand the mechanism of evolution by means of natural selection" and "I believe God created the first human being from dirt" are two completely opposed philosophical stances, and no sane individual can possibly carry them both around at the same time.

[leurz]

Inkheart, on 01 October 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

Pretty sure they were looking for "infallible". Either way, I suspect trolling, insanity, or some twisted combination thereof. "I understand the mechanism of evolution by means of natural selection" and "I believe God created the first human being from dirt" are two completely opposed philosophical stances, and no sane individual can possibly carry them both around at the same time.

Huh, that's funny. I looked through all her posts and didn't see her post either of those things. On the contrary, I saw some thoughtful, non-religious contributions to other threads. Just because a person is Christian does not mean they agree with everything that every other Christian has ever said, just like I doubt you agree with everything every atheist has ever said. While onethreezerotwo may have meant infallible, she may have meant something else. I think we should give her the chance to explain herself before calling her small-minded in bumper sticker style posts.

[onethreezerotwo]

leurz, on 01 October 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

According to Dictionary.com, Ineffable:
1. incapable of being expressed or described in words;inexpressible: ineffable joy.
2. not to be spoken because of its sacredness; unutterable:the ineffable name of the deity.
Are you sure ineffable is the word you want to use here? If not, what did you really mean? If so, you think a book, full of words, cannot be expressed in words? That it shouldn't be read out loud?

What, precisely, have you experienced which has solidified this belief?

Hahaha I definitely meant infallible. That was a stupid switch of those words. My bad. In regards to the question regarding my experiences of God, it's something that will take me a few days to articulate properly so I'll get on that. A good book that I've read that thoroughly explains the Christian reality of 'experiencing God' is called "Experiencing the Presence of God" by A.W. Tozer. I'm not trolling anyone.

leurz, on 01 October 2011 - 11:16 AM, said:

Huh, that's funny. I looked through all her posts and didn't see her post either of those things. On the contrary, I saw some thoughtful, non-religious contributions to other threads. Just because a person is Christian does not mean they agree with everything that every other Christian has ever said, just like I doubt you agree with everything every atheist has ever said. While onethreezerotwo may have meant infallible, she may have meant something else. I think we should give her the chance to explain herself before calling her small-minded in bumper sticker style posts.

First, I'm a guy. Second, I never said anything explaining my beliefs on evolution vs. creation vs. Christianity in any sense. Third, thanks for the open mindedness leurz. I can assure you all that I'm not small minded (unless we're talking about switching vocabulary words, then I would have to plead guilty..). I'm a former atheist turned Christian because of my experiences. I've talked to a lot of people and can say that you'll probably be disappointed with my arguments because they don't conventionally quantify or qualify their claims. Something that I've recently read, although I'm not entirely sure how much I agree with just yet (I've only read thorough it once) is a comment on a blog a few years ago:

"The evidence for faith is exhibited first in a soul-to-spirit connection (a personal experience and one in which, unless shared, is hidden from view)and continual internal movement towards human heartedness and the ability to increase ones' capacity to care. To try and conform/corrupt the standard for supernatural evidence to that of natural standards is a frustrating and vain pursuit.God doesn't enable it. God's miracles are built on a foundation of compassionate relationship, not to appease arrogance or manipulative exploitation."

Sorry if you don't understand, or think I'm small-minded because of my viewpoints. It doesn't bother me.

[Inkheart]

onethreezerotwo, on 01 October 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

I'm not trolling anyone.

Do you believe that human beings arose as a result of natural selection?

onethreezerotwo, on 01 October 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

and continual internal movement towards human- heartedness and the ability to increase ones' capacity to care.

I imagine that implies that you believe religious faith to be the only path to morality?

[onethreezerotwo]

Inkheart, on 01 October 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

Pretty sure they were looking for "infallible". Either way, I suspect trolling, insanity, or some twisted combination thereof. "I understand the mechanism of evolution by means of natural selection" and "I believe God created the first human being from dirt" are two completely opposed philosophical stances, and no sane individual can possibly carry them both around at the same time.

You would be amazed at how closed minded that statement is. Give yourself 10 minutes and try to reconcile those two philosophical stances with the catalyst of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent entity. I really don't think it's difficult. Also, I didn't say either of those statements.

[chicityballa]

the truth is if you're an atheist it's easier to defend your beliefs...people say atheists take a leap of faith but in reality it's the opposite that people who believe in religion take a leap of faith because it's not like God comes to you and tells you he exists...you believe he does even if you see little evidence. but i believe in God because something in me tells me he exists...this topic isn't really something that's very debatable in the first place. i posted here just to say how i feel i didn't think some random asshole would hop on my nuts but who's to say natural disasters ARENT the wrath of God? you can't prove or disprove it...same as proving or disproving the existence of a God....you cant

Edited by chicityballa, 01 October 2011 - 12:25 PM.

[onethreezerotwo]

Inkheart, on 01 October 2011 - 12:18 PM, said:

Do you believe that human beings arose as a result of natural selection?



I imagine that implies that you believe religious faith to be the only path to morality?

I believe that natural selection operates today. I believe that humans experience natural selection today. I am more partial to the biblical account of creation than I am the "God had his hand in the "creation" of humanity from the big-bang til humans-as-we-see-them-today" theory, but I don't really care if one was disproved over the other because I can see the points for both of them. I have the ability to reconcile conventional creationist and evolutionist beliefs in a way that logically satisfies my thought process.

As I said, I don't necessarily agree with the entirety of that persons comment, but I also don't think that is what his statement was pointing to. Regardless, no I do not think that the only path to morality is through any type of faith. I think that morality is something that people can have regardless of their beliefs, which is a part of the free-will component of my faith. Not only do you have the ability to accept God or reject God, you have the ability to accept or reject attributes of God. You can reject the existence of God while prescribing to the realities of compassion, kindness, patience, self-control, perseverance, etc... The theory is wrapped into the fallen-human-nature concept.

chicityballa, on 01 October 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

the truth is if you're an atheist it's easier to defend your beliefs...people say atheists take a leap of faith but in reality it's the opposite that people who believe in religion take a leap of faith because it's not like God comes to you and tells you he exists...you believe he does even if you see little evidence. but i believe in God because something in me tells me he exists...this topic isn't really something that's very debatable in the first place. i posted here just to say how i feel i didn't think some random asshole would hop on my nuts but who's to say natural disasters ARENT the wrath of God? you can't prove or disprove it...same as proving or disproving the existence of a God....you cant

Good video to watch.
!

[leurz]

I really liked that video. Good diction, and adorably derpy cartoon people.
Sorry for calling you a she. I went back to your profile and realized that isn't a picture of you and laughed at the picture because it was funny.

Now I am confused. Maybe you are a troll. I'm wondering now exactly what you believe. That video displays a rather atheistic worldview. If you believe it's message, which is that you can't by logic or evidence prove anything about any god, why is being a Christian relevant to you? Why do you care about a god who might have made people from dirt and might not have? How can the Bible be infallable when it is subject to the same logical arguments portrayed in the video?

[sircomflix]

onethreezerotwo, on 01 October 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

First, I'm a guy. Second, I never said anything explaining my beliefs on evolution vs. creation vs. Christianity in any sense. Third, thanks for the open mindedness leurz. I can assure you all that I'm not small minded (unless we're talking about switching vocabulary words, then I would have to plead guilty..). I'm a former atheist turned Christian because of my experiences. I've talked to a lot of people and can say that you'll probably be disappointed with my arguments because they don't conventionally quantify or qualify their claims. Something that I've recently read, although I'm not entirely sure how much I agree with just yet (I've only read thorough it once) is a comment on a blog a few years ago:

If you don't mind, can you explain how you turned from atheism to Christianity, and your justifications for doing so?

[onethreezerotwo]

I'll respond to all this tomorrow. Hahahaha I promise I'm not a troll.

[Ladida]

chicityballa, on 01 October 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

i didn't think some random asshole would hop on my nuts but who's to say natural disasters ARENT the wrath of God? you can't prove or disprove it...same as proving or disproving the existence of a God....you cant

I'm not trying to hop on your nuts here, but I'm hoping you can clarify what you meant here. Do you think natural disasters are the wrath of God? And if that's so, why does he have favourite places on earth on which to vent his anger?

[chicityballa]

I didn't say I do or don't believe that I said there's no way to prove it. But if you're asking me even if that was true why would it be true, who knows? Maybe God is unhappy with certain people in a certain area?

[Ladida]

chicityballa, on 02 October 2011 - 08:28 PM, said:

I didn't say I do or don't believe that I said there's no way to prove it. But if you're asking me even if that was true why would it be true, who knows? Maybe God is unhappy with certain people in a certain area?

:|

Edited by Ladida, 02 October 2011 - 09:34 PM.

[Frizzle]

Does anyone see the irony of trolling Christians?

[sircomflix]

Frizzle, on 02 October 2011 - 11:46 PM, said:

Does anyone see the irony of trolling Christians?

At first, I was confused because I read that as 'trolling a Christian' and realized it made sense more as 'a Christian who trolls.'

[torsion]

Yes. And no. I believe in God, but not religion.

[Jakerz]

I don't personally believe in god, more of an agnostic atheist view here. I never get in arguments with people about what they believe in though, because there's really no way to prove either way. Quite a few of my friends started to believe in god in very dark times of their lives, and that belief got them through it, which I think is great.

[Vyers]

I am going to list a few things that my grandmother taught me when I was little that changed my belief structure forever.

1) Take everything with a pinch of salt. The Bible was written during a period where many people were uneducated, so the ideas and stories have been simplified. Evolution does exist, people just couldnt grasp the concept of millions of years. Think of the first day as the first ERA of evolution and the creation of our planet.

2) Think of the Bible as Aesop's Fables. The stories are only there to teach us morals and how we should lead our lives as a good person, it is not meant to be taken as fact.

3) Jesus was not a magical or powerful being. He was just a great man that has been proven to exist in our history that did great things. He was hardly the son of god, but people respected him as such.

4) People created God because they need something to cling to due to their short life spans. There was a Star Trek: Voyager episode that covered this idea very nicely since the Ocampa race only live 3-4yrs.

5) Leave people to their own belief structures, but remember that there is no organized religion in the Bible. If you decide to take the Christian path, the Bible teaches that the body is the temple of God and you should be able to worship anywhere... not sitting in a stuffy building opening your pocket book every weekend.

I love my Grandma.
Needless to say, religion is not a part of my life, but that doesnt make me a bad person. I do not believe in a higher being, but I am willing to accept that there /might/ be one.
I have no idea what I would be classified as.