120 replies to this topic

[jcrdude]

Thats too much work. I don't feel the need to convince him to change his opinion. Its interesting how much anger my one liners can invoke from him.

Trust me. That's not anger. That is him making rational points. If you read his points you would understand

[Ambition]

Trust me. That's not anger. That is him making rational points. If you read his points you would understand

If thats not anger, then I have to use even more one liners.

[jcrdude]

If thats not anger, then I have to use even more one liners.

...Moving you into troll territory. Expect to be ignored more.

[Ambition]

...Moving you into troll territory. Expect to be ignored more.

Oh no! I guess I should feel obligated to respond to every opposition to my opinion with full length arguments even if I am apathetic to the argument itself!

and because your 1-3 sentence arguments are SO much better!

I'm not going to argue over something so retarded as whether different forms of fighting should be compared. It is the comparison of different martial arts and the pondering of how each martial art would fare against each other that established the huge industry that is known as mixed martial arts, today. The success of mixed martial arts is due to people's curiosity of the effectiveness of each form of fighting.

For one to even challenge that statement is completely idiotic. No matter how lengthy his argument may be, it doesn't change that statement's truthfulness.

Helio Gracie himself said that that the UFC was founded in order to reveal to the world how effective jiu-jitsu was. If thats not willingness to compare different martial arts and forms of fighting, then I don't know what is. Unless of course, you mean to say that your opinion has more weight than Helio Gracie's opinion?

Please, the argument Bryan presented wasn't even worth half a rebuttal. He should be glad that I even responded with anything. An argument's credibility and weight is not dependent on its length.

However, if it is your opinion that my posts are not worth reading, then do not read them. Unlike Bryan, I do not seek to manipulate people's personal opinions and am perfectly fine with people holding unique opinions that might contradict mine.

Edited by Prodigy, 26 April 2010 - 07:39 PM.

[jcrdude]

Oh no! I guess I should feel obligated to respond to every opposition to my opinion with full length arguments even if I am apathetic to the argument itself!

and because your 1-3 sentence arguments are SO much better!

I see I've drawn an actual rebuttal out of you, so clearly my ability to formulate complete sentences has motivated you to reply appropriately. Therefore, the result could be used as evidence that my 1-3 sentence arguments ARE so much better. They have caused you to form a reply without saying tl;dr by breaking it up into smaller bite-size pieces.

I'm not going to argue over something so retarded as whether different forms of fighting should be compared. It is the comparison of different martial arts and the pondering of how each martial art would fare against each other that established the huge industry that is known as mixed martial arts, today. The success of mixed martial arts is due to people's curiosity of the effectiveness of each form of fighting.

For one to even challenge that statement is completely idiotic. No matter how lengthy his argument may be, it doesn't change that statement's truthfulness.

This may be true, but Brian's argument was that pitting a person who is trained in multiple styles of fighting against a person who has trained solely in one would end up being a landslide unless the singly-trained fighter specifically trained to be prepared for the new rules they would be encountering

Helio Gracie himself said that that the UFC was founded in order to reveal to the world how effective jiu-jitsu was. If thats not willingness to compare different martial arts and forms of fighting, then I don't know what is. Unless of course, you mean to say that your opinion has more weight than Helio Gracie's opinion?

Did Helio Gracie form the UFC? Did he have a hand in its formation? Does he have access to information that makes him a reliable source? If so, I would enjoy having a direct quote and proof of relevancy.

Please, the argument Bryan presented wasn't even worth half a rebuttal. He should be glad that I even responded with anything. An argument's credibility and weight is not dependent on its length.

tl;dr is less than half a rebuttal. His argument came to be (later on) that you came off as an ignoramus because you did not take the time to read that which you were replying to. I admit that personally whenever I see a person responding to something, and openly acknowledge not reading it, it comes across as an admittance of ignorance to the other side of the debate and therefore renders all further arguments by the ignorant person irrelevant. The argument would be no different than the argument between a stubborn atheist and a stubborn theist. Neither would listen to the other's opinions and nothing would be accomplished.

However, if it is your opinion that my posts are not worth reading, then do not read them. Unlike Bryan, I do not seek to manipulate people's personal opinions and am perfectly fine with people holding unique opinions that might contradict mine.

This is the great thing about stating your opinion. Yes there will be dissent, but it is your chance to state your opinion for the undecided. The undecided will then be able to weigh both sides.

Notice that in my reply I mention nothing of the actual debate, but rather a point by point breakdown of the current proposal of validity of argument for both sides. I hope that my responses are adequate for each point you decided to make in this response

[BuckFutter]

Jesus, how a simple comparison escalated to something like this.

[jcrdude]

Jesus, how a simple comparison escalated to something like this.

Topical debate is healthy. It promotes an exchange of ideas and a rebuttal of arguments.

[BuckFutter]

Topical debate is healthy. It promotes an exchange of ideas and a rebuttal of arguments.

Eh, not saying it's bad. Just surprised how a discussion on boxing/mma turned out this way.


It'd be much better if more people actually participated.

[Bryan]

Eh, not saying it's bad. Just surprised how a discussion on boxing/mma turned out this way.

I tend to have that effect on threads. Only if you could've seen me and Kitsune go at it. Or me and iargue on some computer debates.

JCR I'm impressed sir, I don't know why I've had you on ignore this whole time

[jcrdude]

I tend to have that effect on threads. Only if you could've seen me and Kitsune go at it. Or me and iargue on some computer debates.

JCR I'm impressed sir, I don't know why I've had you on ignore this whole time

I was a part-time doof in the early months. Back when Kitsune distrusted me for some reason.

...And I thought you and me patched things up? You and I had a shared hatred for stupid and I have praised you for it via PM and we had a discussion about a few things. Maybe you just never unignored.

[BuckFutter]

I was a part-time doof in the early months. Back when Kitsune distrusted me for some reason.

...And I thought you and me patched things up? You and I had a shared hatred for stupid and I have praised you for it via PM and we had a discussion about a few things. Maybe you just never unignored.

I like stupid, it makes for great reading and TV.

[Ambition]

I see I've drawn an actual rebuttal out of you, so clearly my ability to formulate complete sentences has motivated you to reply appropriately. Therefore, the result could be used as evidence that my 1-3 sentence arguments ARE so much better. They have caused you to form a reply without saying tl;dr by breaking it up into smaller bite-size pieces.




This may be true, but Brian's argument was that pitting a person who is trained in multiple styles of fighting against a person who has trained solely in one would end up being a landslide unless the singly-trained fighter specifically trained to be prepared for the new rules they would be encountering



Did Helio Gracie form the UFC? Did he have a hand in its formation? Does he have access to information that makes him a reliable source? If so, I would enjoy having a direct quote and proof of relevancy.




tl;dr is less than half a rebuttal. His argument came to be (later on) that you came off as an ignoramus because you did not take the time to read that which you were replying to. I admit that personally whenever I see a person responding to something, and openly acknowledge not reading it, it comes across as an admittance of ignorance to the other side of the debate and therefore renders all further arguments by the ignorant person irrelevant. The argument would be no different than the argument between a stubborn atheist and a stubborn theist. Neither would listen to the other's opinions and nothing would be accomplished.




This is the great thing about stating your opinion. Yes there will be dissent, but it is your chance to state your opinion for the undecided. The undecided will then be able to weigh both sides.

Notice that in my reply I mention nothing of the actual debate, but rather a point by point breakdown of the current proposal of validity of argument for both sides. I hope that my responses are adequate for each point you decided to make in this response

Actually, Rorion Gracie founded the UFC for that reason. Helio was speaking for him. Thats why they immediately put Royce Gracie in the UFC.

[jcrdude]

Actually, Rorion Gracie founded the UFC for that reason. Helio was speaking for him. Thats why they immediately put Royce Gracie in the UFC.

I have found information proving that Rorion Gracie was a co-founder of the UFC, but have not found your quote yet. Mind pointing me in the right direction?

[Ambition]

I have found information proving that Rorion Gracie was a co-founder of the UFC, but have not found your quote yet. Mind pointing me in the right direction?

It was Helio Gracie's interview with Playboy.

btw, almost all of the Gracies have been constantly competing with other styles of fighting in Value Tudo matches. they did this even before MMA became mainstream.

Edited by Prodigy, 27 April 2010 - 01:16 PM.

[Bryan]

I was a part-time doof in the early months. Back when Kitsune distrusted me for some reason.

...And I thought you and me patched things up? You and I had a shared hatred for stupid and I have praised you for it via PM and we had a discussion about a few things. Maybe you just never unignored.

I don't know, maybe we did. A lot of things have changed since then. We're on good terms now though, so let's keep it that way

[GreenScissors]

From a pure spectator's point of view, I just like exciting fights. I often find that in both sports, people go out there with a plan to win, which is fine, but I watch to see a show, since I don't understand the technical aspects of it. Yes that was a very long run on sentence, but from my perspective, that is what it is.

[BuckFutter]

From a pure spectator's point of view, I just like exciting fights. I often find that in both sports, people go out there with a plan to win, which is fine, but I watch to see a show, since I don't understand the technical aspects of it. Yes that was a very long run on sentence, but from my perspective, that is what it is.

This is true of the many fans who buy the PPVs. Technical aspects may be hard to appreciate unless you practice the sport or are just very knowledgable of them (perhaps from a history of watching MMA or Boxing).


A few of my friends used to ask why I watch UFC cause they would see a match where one guy just lies on the other (GSP) and just start making gay jokes. Then I show them some exciting KOs/submissions and they're into the MMA stuff now.

[Ambition]

This is true of the many fans who buy the PPVs. Technical aspects may be hard to appreciate unless you practice the sport or are just very knowledgable of them (perhaps from a history of watching MMA or Boxing).


A few of my friends used to ask why I watch UFC cause they would see a match where one guy just lies on the other (GSP) and just start making gay jokes. Then I show them some exciting KOs/submissions and they're into the MMA stuff now.

You shouldn't use GSP to introduce someone to the sport, lol. Hes boring to say the least. All of my friends from the wrestling team love him though.

[BuckFutter]

Anyone else catch the Mayweather fight last night?

[Ambition]

Anyone else catch the Mayweather fight last night?

Nope.. but if it ended in decision, its not worth watching.

[BuckFutter]

Nope.. but if it ended in decision, its not worth watching.

Is that your take on all boxing matches in general, or the ones with PBF?

[Ambition]

Is that your take on all boxing matches in general, or the ones with PBF?

Its really my take on all top contenders of MMA and boxing. If it ends in decision, then obviously they were too busy trying to win than to fight.

[Bryan]

Its really my take on all top contenders of MMA and boxing. If it ends in decision, then obviously they were too busy trying to win than to fight.

I could watch the Machida/Rua fight repeatedly. That's just one recent example.

[Ambition]

I could watch the Machida/Rua fight repeatedly. That's just one recent example.

Thats one of the more interesting decision fights. Still though, that fight could have been better. Shogun is usually more aggressive.

The number of boring decision fights outweigh the number of interesting decision fights by far.

Almost all of the GSP decision fights are boring. Lay and pray for 5 rounds...

[pyke]

Its really my take on all top contenders of MMA and boxing. If it ends in decision, then obviously they were too busy trying to win than to fight.

Ever see the end of the Ultimate Fighter, season one?