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Are dual cores *officially* dead-tech?


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#26 iargue

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 01:10 PM

9800gt is not gt220 :/

Also 9800gt is 95$ish and the HD 4850 is 100$ and beats the 9800gt in like 90% of the benchmarks (which of course prove nothing :S. I'm sure if they ran the cards on the same system you'd be complaining about how the system is biased towards better framerates for the ATI cards). Only downside is it runs hot

5970 is the best ATI card, gtx 480 for nvidia

5970 seems to have the advantage

http://www.overclock...-vs-5870-a.html



" We will not have a true 5970 vs GTX 480 vs 5870 comparison until we get some 1920x1200, 4x AA, 16x AF results."

Anyways. Specifications alone puts the GTX 480 ahead of the ATI game. Plus, Nvidia is still waiting to release the GTX 485 which will put it on top again. Also, In Tessellation, nothing beats the GTX480.

This GTX480 is only single core, hence why it doesnt beat the 5970 straight up. It can beat the 5870.

#27 Ambition

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 01:16 PM

Why are you guys comparing the Fermi and the 5970 when the OP asked for advice on building an economical rig?

#28 iargue

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 01:17 PM

Why are you guys comparing the Fermi and the 5970 when the OP asked for advice on building an economical rig?



Because, that has been settled.

#29 Bryan

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:20 PM

All I can say is try to get in contact with Fatal. iargue is extremely biased and doesn't truly understand what you're trying to build. This thread is just going to turn into a bunch of PC Nerds arguing. I would recommend spending the extra 30$ for the 5770 though. Though you may not see much of a difference in benchmarks, I can bet you'll see a huge difference if you were to put both into your rig. Also, I'd recommend DDR3 Ram/Mobo, but it's up to you whether or not you want to spend the price. Regardless, I'm not looking to start an argument. The above is my opinion I wont be responding to any posts questioning such.

#30 Mr. Hobo

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:23 PM

" We will not have a true 5970 vs GTX 480 vs 5870 comparison until we get some 1920x1200, 4x AA, 16x AF results."

Anyways. Specifications alone puts the GTX 480 ahead of the ATI game. Plus, Nvidia is still waiting to release the GTX 485 which will put it on top again. Also, In Tessellation, nothing beats the GTX480.

This GTX480 is only single core, hence why it doesnt beat the 5970 straight up. It can beat the 5870.


There is much speculation that the GTX 480 will have a very hard time with tessellation and AA/AF at the same time.



Note: I don't want to hear anything about the 5970 being a dual-GPU and the GTX 480 being single-GPU. This is simply a comparison of NVIDIA's highest end vs ATI's highest end in the most demanding DX11 benchmark available.


Anyways I'm done arguing. I declare myself the victor

#31 iargue

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:29 PM

All I can say is try to get in contact with Fatal. iargue is extremely biased and doesn't truly understand what you're trying to build. This thread is just going to turn into a bunch of PC Nerds arguing. I would recommend spending the extra 30$ for the 5770 though. Though you may not see much of a difference in benchmarks, I can bet you'll see a huge difference if you were to put both into your rig. Also, I'd recommend DDR3 Ram/Mobo, but it's up to you whether or not you want to spend the price. Regardless, I'm not looking to start an argument. The above is my opinion I wont be responding to any posts questioning such.



I am not biased. The I7 is supieror in ever fucking benchmark you will even run. Period. I understand what he is trying to do, and it not worth it to save 100 dollars and get a shitty AMD processor, or even a shitty intel processor. The facts are all there.

For around 150 dollars more, you can get double the performance, and choose to upgrade even later. With his current build options, his cpu and memory will bottle neck the fuck out of him. Prove me wrong if you can, -because- you cant. If he wants to upgrade in the future at all, the I7 is his best choice. If he goes with his current build, his only upgrade options are add a better video card that will still bottleneck at ram/cpu/hard drive. Upgrade to a faster hard drive which will still bottleneck, or buy a new system.

I am trying to provide him with the best option for the future. Why should he spend 600 now, and 600 later, when he could spend 700 now, and 200 later?

#32 Vegas

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 07:20 PM

As for now, the only revisions I have made is deciding to go with a DDR3 board/ram and the caviar black.

Right now as is from my standpoint and the opinions of others on other boards about getting the i7 with iargue's reasoning, its unlikely im going for it. Some say they get your reasoning and agree on how strong the i7 is but its not practical for the needs im looking for and 2/3 years is too far to look at with technology.

All I can say is try to get in contact with Fatal. iargue is extremely biased and doesn't truly understand what you're trying to build. This thread is just going to turn into a bunch of PC Nerds arguing. I would recommend spending the extra 30$ for the 5770 though. Though you may not see much of a difference in benchmarks, I can bet you'll see a huge difference if you were to put both into your rig. Also, I'd recommend DDR3 Ram/Mobo, but it's up to you whether or not you want to spend the price. Regardless, I'm not looking to start an argument. The above is my opinion I wont be responding to any posts questioning such.

What's your take on getting a PowerColor HD5770. Only way im gonna up from the 5750->5770 is if I buy a cheaper PowerColor, due to me spending a bit more already on DDR3 and Caviar Black. Im trying to go for the 'tried and tested' brands and im skeptical at PC. "You get what you pay for."

#33 Bryan

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:37 PM

As for now, the only revisions I have made is deciding to go with a DDR3 board/ram and the caviar black.

Right now as is from my standpoint and the opinions of others on other boards about getting the i7 with iargue's reasoning, its unlikely im going for it. Some say they get your reasoning and agree on how strong the i7 is but its not practical for the needs im looking for and 2/3 years is too far to look at with technology.


What's your take on getting a PowerColor HD5770. Only way im gonna up from the 5750->5770 is if I buy a cheaper PowerColor, due to me spending a bit more already on DDR3 and Caviar Black. Im trying to go for the 'tried and tested' brands and im skeptical at PC. "You get what you pay for."

Never heard of the company to be honest. Generally they(cheaper manufacturers) tend to be really, really loud. As long as you don't mind loud noise from the GPU when it's under a heavy load, you should be fine. But I'm speaking from an ignorant standpoint here, just making an assumption. I'm glad you've switched to the DDR3, you're going to be happier in the future. The 5750 is fine, but the price/performance ratio is better with the 5770, it's really whatever you want to do. You can always upgrade in the future.

The i7 is the 'in' thing at the moment. It's what all computers are running, but it's not needed like you've said. You can always get a good mobo/cpu deal from Newegg in the future if you're looking to upgrade.

#34 Vegas

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:32 PM

I think i've finally been able to finalize the specs with a couple variables.

FIXED

AMD Athlon II X4 630 2.8GHz

Caviar Black 640GB

Antec Three Hundred

Antec Earthwatts 650W

LITE-ON Black iHAS124-04

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 1600

Variables

Mobos- mATX vs ATX
MSI 760GM-E51 AM3 mATX 1 year
$64.99

ASUS M4A77TD ATX 3 year
$82.92

almost $20 difference

Vid Cards

XFX Radeon HD 5750 1GB
139.99

XFX HD-577X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 1GB
$159.99

$20 difference

the HIS H577FM1GD Radeon HD 5770 is pretty nice as well with a supposed highly reliable cooling system. only 2 year warranty though
$156.99

any thoughts? im leaning towards the ATX solely because of the extra 2 year warranty and more over the 5750 just to cut costs

#35 iargue

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 03:47 AM

/sigh. I'm going to make one more attempt to educate you.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Bottleneck

A bottleneck is a phenomenon where the performance or capacity of an entire system is limited by a single or limited number of components or resources.
I will go through your entire build, and show you all of the flaws, and bottlenecks that your going to experience. but first I want to explain to you my background.

Computes are not just a hobby for me. They are a passion, and they are how I make my living. 10 hours a day I spend working on computers, and then I come home and play on computers. Everything I do is centered around computers. I have 6 certifications dealing with Computer Hardware, as well as years of experience in dealing with computer hardware and building systems. I have been given personal tours from AMD, Intel, Nvidia, and Western Digital. I have studied deeply into the creation of hardware, and experienced it first hand. I have seen the work and dedication that goes into making these pieces of hardware. I've even seen how Dell goes about building and testing their systems that they sell to millions of people. Feel free to listen to other people, feel free to believe that I am biased, but if you really want to build a proper system, then consider what I have to say to you.

The first fatal flaw in your latest build. DDR3 memory.

Looking at the specifications of both of the motherboards that you have listed. They only support Dual Channel memory. They accept DDR (240) pin memory, but it will only ever run at dual channel speeds. Getting DDR3 memory for these motherboards is a huge waste of money, as you will see no improved performance (And you might even have slightly reduced performance).

Next we move on to the processor, which creates a nice bottleneck for your system.

With all current AMD based processors, the CPU send commands to the motherboards memory controller, which then send the commands to the memory and then the data back to the CPU. This means that regardless of the speed of your memory, and the power of your processor, your limited to the transfer rate of your motherboard. How fast do you think a 60 dollar motherboard -really- is going to be?

Then we will move onto your Video Card, which is another serious bottleneck.

Okay, so you got this sweet HD 5570 that all the benchmarks rave and rant about, showing you besting other cards with 30+ fps in crysis and everything else. The one thing that you should learn as fast as possible, is to not trust Benchmarks. Benchmarks provide a -very- limited measurement of performance, and fail to take into account thousands of factors, including manufacturing differences, in their scores. The result you get from a benchmark is guaranteed to be different in real life. The flaw with this current video card is the transfer rate. This is a 128bit video card, using GDDR5. This means that your memory is going to be processing -much- faster then it can transfer the data through. This is known as a bottleneck. Why do you think that Nvidia is just now making the switch to GDDR5? If you honestly think its because they didnt know how to, your mistaken. GDDR2 will use all of the 128bit transfer rate, and GDDR3 will use more then the transfer rate, giving you smooth processing all the way through. So why would you pay for a GDDR5 video card, when your still only getting the data as if you had GDDR2?


I hope that you may atleast listen to and understand what I am telling you, before you rush off and buy a system that will never be as good as you want it to be.

The second biggest question you have to ask is, "Do I want to upgrade my system in the future?". If your answer is Yes. Your current build is all wrong. The only upgrade features you will have is to a SSD, and a better video card. Both of which will have bottleneck issues because of the rest of your system.

#36 Bryan

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 10:15 AM

Blah blah my penis is small I try to make up for it by taking a bunch of meaningless tests.

The biggest issue with all of your advice is you only seem to take into account what you seem is right. Being in the business, you should know that the customer is going to make decisions based on what they feel they need, and it's your job to make it work for them, not attempt to educate them.

Of course your system isn't perfect Vegas, and you're not trying to make it such. The only bottlenecks you're going to experience are from your CPU/Mobo, which I'm sure all of us have agreed you can change. The great part is, like I've already said, when you choose you want to upgrade you can always find a CPU/Mobo combo for a decent deal. Your mobo may be limiting what you can do now, but in the future when you have more money you can upgrade it and get rid of those.

If the 5770 is only $20 more, I'd definitely say it's worth it. I've run both cards and you'll be extremely surprised at the difference.

iargue is right in some aspects. You are bottlenecking your computer. The best part is, it'll still work and do everything you want it to do and more. When you decide you want to take full advantage of your computer and you have the money to do such, I'm sure you'll be more inclined to make every aspect work as best as possible.

Are you taking full advantage of what you can? No. Are you building a system that will exceed all of your expectations? Yes. Can you get a mobo/cpu in the future and get rid of this 'bottlenecking' shit? Yes.

At the end of the day, the only question that matters is "Am I going to be happy with my choice?" And you're not going to know the answer until you fire it up. I still have people that use 10 year old HP's come in and they're happy with what they have, though every single aspect of technology would argue that they need 'better' and 'more'.

The great thing about technology is it changes rapidly. If you don't like something, wait 6 months-a year and replace it.

#37 iargue

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:36 PM

The biggest issue with all of your advice is you only seem to take into account what you seem is right. Being in the business, you should know that the customer is going to make decisions based on what they feel they need, and it's your job to make it work for them, not attempt to educate them.

Of course your system isn't perfect Vegas, and you're not trying to make it such. The only bottlenecks you're going to experience are from your CPU/Mobo, which I'm sure all of us have agreed you can change. The great part is, like I've already said, when you choose you want to upgrade you can always find a CPU/Mobo combo for a decent deal. Your mobo may be limiting what you can do now, but in the future when you have more money you can upgrade it and get rid of those.

If the 5770 is only $20 more, I'd definitely say it's worth it. I've run both cards and you'll be extremely surprised at the difference.

iargue is right in some aspects. You are bottlenecking your computer. The best part is, it'll still work and do everything you want it to do and more. When you decide you want to take full advantage of your computer and you have the money to do such, I'm sure you'll be more inclined to make every aspect work as best as possible.

Are you taking full advantage of what you can? No. Are you building a system that will exceed all of your expectations? Yes. Can you get a mobo/cpu in the future and get rid of this 'bottlenecking' shit? Yes.

At the end of the day, the only question that matters is "Am I going to be happy with my choice?" And you're not going to know the answer until you fire it up. I still have people that use 10 year old HP's come in and they're happy with what they have, though every single aspect of technology would argue that they need 'better' and 'more'.

The great thing about technology is it changes rapidly. If you don't like something, wait 6 months-a year and replace it.



Your a class A Douche, and I am going to opt to ignore you from now on. Continue to give people advice on computers that is completely wrong. Hell, thats what 90% of technicians do it anyways. It might do what he wants, but hes wasting money on it, and you might be okay with letting him do that, but I am not.

#38 Bryan

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:47 PM

Your a class A Douche, and I am going to opt to ignore you from now on. Continue to give people advice on computers that is completely wrong. Hell, thats what 90% of technicians do it anyways. It might do what he wants, but hes wasting money on it, and you might be okay with letting him do that, but I am not.

It's not your job to buy the computer for him. Ultimately he's going to make the decisions that he wants to. I've yet to give anyone advice that's wrong, or even questionable. The only reason you're so pissed is because it's not going your way. Guess what, it does what he wants, you've given what you thought he should get and he's ignoring it. So why continue to argue? It seems like you're just wasting your time to be honest.

Also, I'm a douche because you bring up your stupid certifications in an effort to make your opinions on the matter more valid. Any computer advice by iargue is usually preceded by some pieces of paper that are supposed to mean he knows something. Guess what kid, it's the internet, no one gives a fuck.

Know when to just stop typing. At the end of the day, your opinions on this forum aren't going to mean shit. Who the hell cares what I or anyone else thinks. If you're so fucking good at being a computer technician, then keep on doing it and be the best. Stop trying to force people to learn shit, I've learned long ago from you that ignorant people will continue to be ignorant until they themselves choose not to be.

At the end of the day, you answered the question for Vegas. "It does what he wants" and therefore, that's all that's needed.

/thread

#39 iargue

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:51 PM

Know when to just stop typing. At the end of the day, your opinions on this forum aren't going to mean shit. Who the hell cares what I or anyone else thinks. If you're so fucking good at being a computer technician, then keep on doing it and be the best. Stop trying to force people to learn shit, I've learned long ago from you that ignorant people will continue to be ignorant until they themselves choose not to be.



Maybe I am just not willing to accept the fact that here isn't any hope for them....

#40 Vegas

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:54 PM

I honestly have had a weeks worth of education so I don't understand some of the stuff. Ive posted it to other forums to see what they discuss but I do have some feedback.

The first fatal flaw in your latest build. DDR3 memory.

Looking at the specifications of both of the motherboards that you have listed. They only support Dual Channel memory. They accept DDR (240) pin memory, but it will only ever run at dual channel speeds. Getting DDR3 memory for these motherboards is a huge waste of money, as you will see no improved performance (And you might even have slightly reduced performance).


So are you saying DDR2 is what I should get? I had a DDR2 RAM/mobo build and it was one of the first things multiple people told me to upgrade. The fact that I can upgrade DDR3 later in the road and that buying a DDR2 board/ram won't permit easy upgrades due to the fact DDR2 would be uncommon in 2/3 years time and will therefore cost more. If you mean for the speeds of it, the 1600 was the cheapest out of all DDR3's Ive searched.

EDIT: Ive learned that you mean to get a tri channel board/i7 board to fully maximize it. Ive been told its been iffy if it really makes a real world difference.

Next we move on to the processor, which creates a nice bottleneck for your system.

With all current AMD based processors, the CPU send commands to the motherboards memory controller, which then send the commands to the memory and then the data back to the CPU. This means that regardless of the speed of your memory, and the power of your processor, your limited to the transfer rate of your motherboard. How fast do you think a 60 dollar motherboard -really- is going to be?

What's wrong with the board and what specifics should I be looking at when looking at a board. Link me to a better suiting board.

Then we will move onto your Video Card, which is another serious bottleneck.

Okay, so you got this sweet HD 5570 that all the benchmarks rave and rant about, showing you besting other cards with 30+ fps in crysis and everything else. The one thing that you should learn as fast as possible, is to not trust Benchmarks. Benchmarks provide a -very- limited measurement of performance, and fail to take into account thousands of factors, including manufacturing differences, in their scores. The result you get from a benchmark is guaranteed to be different in real life. The flaw with this current video card is the transfer rate. This is a 128bit video card, using GDDR5. This means that your memory is going to be processing -much- faster then it can transfer the data through. This is known as a bottleneck. Why do you think that Nvidia is just now making the switch to GDDR5? If you honestly think its because they didnt know how to, your mistaken. GDDR2 will use all of the 128bit transfer rate, and GDDR3 will use more then the transfer rate, giving you smooth processing all the way through. So why would you pay for a GDDR5 video card, when your still only getting the data as if you had GDDR2?

first criticism I've gotten about the card lol so I dunno what to say.

The second biggest question you have to ask is, "Do I want to upgrade my system in the future?". If your answer is Yes. Your current build is all wrong. The only upgrade features you will have is to a SSD, and a better video card. Both of which will have bottleneck issues because of the rest of your system.

I have talked about this being your main point to other boards and they've said that getting a AM3 DDR3 board will make it upgradeable because AMD will most likely have AM3 compatible cpu chips in 2/3 years. Can upgrade the RAM...well because its DDR3 compatible.

#41 Bryan

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:55 PM

Maybe I am just not willing to accept the fact that here isn't any hope for them....

I didn't say there wasn't hope. You're not going to teach people that don't want to learn. All you can do is wait until they want to, and then educate them. Accept the fact that you can't teach someone that won't listen. The only thing you can do is persuade them to convince themselves to listen. If you choose to ignore that fact, you're going to have a whole bunch of problems in life.

Edit: Vegas, I'd get the DDR3 while you can. DDR Ram was infinitely more expensive once DDR2 became commonplace. DDR3 is about to take that over and make DDR2 infinitely more expensive. Though your board doesn't support DDR3, if you choose to go the DDR2 route, you're going to be kicking yourself in the ass if any of your sticks fail down the road.

#42 Vegas

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:56 PM


iargue is right in some aspects. You are bottlenecking your computer. The best part is, it'll still work and do everything you want it to do and more. When you decide you want to take full advantage of your computer and you have the money to do such, I'm sure you'll be more inclined to make every aspect work as best as possible.

Are you taking full advantage of what you can? No. Are you building a system that will exceed all of your expectations? Yes. Can you get a mobo/cpu in the future and get rid of this 'bottlenecking' shit? Yes.

At the end of the day, the only question that matters is "Am I going to be happy with my choice?" And you're not going to know the answer until you fire it up. I still have people that use 10 year old HP's come in and they're happy with what they have, though every single aspect of technology would argue that they need 'better' and 'more'.


Lol yeah the only reason im upgrading anyway is cuz I need a new vid card and any 'new' vid card will be bottlenecked by my pentium d. The pentium d, which Im satisfied with already with my daily needs. Sure it'd be nice not having to leave it overnight when encoding video files to different formats but hey, no biggie. I know I ain't doing any state of the art media editing/projects any time soon.

#43 iargue

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 02:19 PM

So are you saying DDR2 is what I should get? I had a DDR2 RAM/mobo build and it was one of the first things multiple people told me to upgrade. The fact that I can upgrade DDR3 later in the road and that buying a DDR2 board/ram won't permit easy upgrades due to the fact DDR2 would be uncommon in 2/3 years time and will therefore cost more. If you mean for the speeds of it, the 1600 was the cheapest out of all DDR3's Ive searched.


What I am saying is that that motherboard will only ever run at DDR2 speeds. DDR3 means that it is triple channel ram. The two motherboards that you listed are Dual Channel motherboards. This means that they will never take advantage of the three channels that DDR3 ram uses. Now. You could get DDR3 now, and get a new motherboard in the future, or you could simply get a Triple Channel supported motherboard now. Thats your choice. As of your current build, the DDR3 memory is a waste of money with your motherboard.

What's wrong with the board and what specifics should I be looking at when looking at a board. Link me to a better suiting board.


The only problem is the way the CPU works, and the speed of the board itself. It creates a bottleneck with DDR3 memory. Given that the motherboard only supports DDR2 memory anyways, its not going to be a -huge- deal. I've looked through Newegg, and I cant find a AMD motherboard that supports triple channel memory :(. Perhaps you can find on that does support it. The very least you can do is go with this one "http://www.newegg.ca...82E16813130254" which supports a FBS of 2600mhz vs your current 1000mhz. Here is an Asus with 3 year warranty "http://www.newegg.ca...2E16813131619".


first criticism I've gotten about the card lol so I dunno what to say.


90% of the people your going to talk to about Video Cards are going to be 100% biased towards a certain manufacturer. They have some crazy ideal that AMD makes better cards, or that NVIDIA makes better cards, or some bullshit like that. AMD and NVIDIA make the -standards- for the video card. Other Companys make the card itself, and choose what to have it in. At the very least, if you getting GDDR5, get a 256 bit card.


I have talked about this being your main point to other boards and they've said that getting a AM3 DDR3 board will make it upgradeable because AMD will most likely have AM3 compatible cpu chips in 2/3 years. Can upgrade the RAM...well because its DDR3 compatible.


See. They say "Amd will most likely release it for the AM3" Thats what they said about the AM2 and the AM2+ socket type as well. You have to understand that to truly gain any advantages from a new processor, you have to create a new socket. If they were to release a new processor for the AM3 socket, it would be stuck with the limitations of that socket type. Instead they would redesign the socket to support better bandwidth, and -hopefully- to have its own memory controller on the card itself.

The only way to actually Upgrade the cpu is to replace the motherboard. And if your looking at the difference between the CPU you picked out, and the I7. The I7 will be considered good for a much longer time still (Its been over a year since its release, and nothing beats it still.).

Its not about being able to upgrade your system to the best in the future. That will mean you will have to replace the motherboard, always. But its about opening up the possibilities of what you can upgrade. Using an I7 will eliminate the bottleneck created by the CPU, as it currently exceeds the demands put on it by the other components.

#44 Vegas

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 03:54 PM

What I am saying is that that motherboard will only ever run at DDR2 speeds. DDR3 means that it is triple channel ram. The two motherboards that you listed are Dual Channel motherboards. This means that they will never take advantage of the three channels that DDR3 ram uses. Now. You could get DDR3 now, and get a new motherboard in the future, or you could simply get a Triple Channel supported motherboard now. Thats your choice. As of your current build, the DDR3 memory is a waste of money with your motherboard.

The only problem is the way the CPU works, and the speed of the board itself. It creates a bottleneck with DDR3 memory. Given that the motherboard only supports DDR2 memory anyways, its not going to be a -huge- deal. I've looked through Newegg, and I cant find a AMD motherboard that supports triple channel memory :(. Perhaps you can find on that does support it. The very least you can do is go with this one "http://www.newegg.ca...82E16813130254" which supports a FBS of 2600mhz vs your current 1000mhz. Here is an Asus with 3 year warranty "http://www.newegg.ca...2E16813131619".


ye i was just told that. but i have been awared that the only triple channel boards are i7 1366 ones which are mad expensive ie; i7 build.

whats the point of my board being "DDR3 standard" anyway then:S. i researched a bit more and it seems that dual channel versus triple channel will only benefit i7's with a tiny perfomance boost anyway. its not like im gonna be hardcoring the processor too much anyway.

so your saying in 2/3 years down the road, ill be better of having bought ddr2 mem instead of ddr3 if the triple channel isnt utilized, interms of adding additional RAM?

as for the motherboard, someone has told me to wait for the 8xx series? will browse for higher FSB ones. if I have to sacrifice getting an mATX for speed, no problems with that?

EDIT: WAIT WAIT, i think you've misread the new mobo. the current one i want to get is this
ASUS M4A77TD AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
FSB 2600MHz Hyper Transport (5200 MT/s) DDR3 Standard.

so with that said, does the mobo still a cause of bottleneck other than not being able to triple channel capable.

See. They say "Amd will most likely release it for the AM3" Thats what they said about the AM2 and the AM2+ socket type as well. You have to understand that to truly gain any advantages from a new processor, you have to create a new socket. If they were to release a new processor for the AM3 socket, it would be stuck with the limitations of that socket type. Instead they would redesign the socket to support better bandwidth, and -hopefully- to have its own memory controller on the card itself.

The only way to actually Upgrade the cpu is to replace the motherboard. And if your looking at the difference between the CPU you picked out, and the I7. The I7 will be considered good for a much longer time still (Its been over a year since its release, and nothing beats it still.).

Its not about being able to upgrade your system to the best in the future. That will mean you will have to replace the motherboard, always. But its about opening up the possibilities of what you can upgrade. Using an I7 will eliminate the bottleneck created by the CPU, as it currently exceeds the demands put on it by the other components.


but they have released the 6 core AMDs on AM3 so that might be proof of dedication towards the AM3?

As a fix for your 'cpu bottleneck argument' not saying I'll do it but apparently the X6 1090T is identical to the power of some i7s, and the X6 1055T is only slower, which can be oc'ed, but costs only $200.

Even now if you go look at the 1 review on tom's hardware, the Intel Core i7 platform is just now getting a upgrade to usb 3.0 & sata6.o specification, BUT on ALL of the 4 boards show not only is it ONLY 2 available ports for each standard, BUT also thru 3rd party chips. AMD on the other hand only needs the usb 3.0 chips as there sb850 southbridge already has not just 2 but 6 fully funtional Sata6.0 ports for the more flooding onto the market SSD & HHD Sata6.0 enabled hard drives.

Further reading on the internet also has revieled ... even IF you bought a Core i5 based cpu when intel launches there Core i6 technoligy in 11' the cpu's/motherboards will not be compatible ... + on top of this intel still have no interest in putting USB 3.0 ports onto those boards even thought they have been sitting on there own USB 3.0 chipset for the last 6+ months now.

So AGAIN, if your looking for getting the most for the least amount of money, your going to look at a AMD AM3/DDR3 setup with either something like a Phenom II X4 955-965 Black edition or the Phenom II X6 1090T on probly a 1 video card slotted AMD 8xx motherboard. If you go look in another thread I'd posted in you'll see some configurations I've shown that show how much of a pc you get for your $.

Core i7 is great ..... BUT its honestly a stagnet platform that you're going to need like $1200+ to get the preformance out of it + it comsumes a fair amount of power, runs fairly warmer vs a AMD chipset based system.


Final post on my standpoint on sticking with the 630.

copypasta directed to similar i7 pusher on another forum with similar reasoning as you. if it's you, I dunno.

I completely understand what you're saying but you gotta remember the one and only reason I'm upgrading is due to wanting to game a bit. My pentium D, as old as it is right now, pretty much lets me do anything I want right now other than gaming, from photoshop + firefox with 20 tabs + watching a movie all at the same time to encoding a couple of gigs of video to a different format, albeit it might take some time for the latter, but no biggie. Thats pretty much as resource intensive as I get. I do use a program that helps stop memory leaks to help it all run smoothly but I unno if that really makes a difference.

If I was having alot of trouble right now running stuff, then yes, I'd be like, sh*t what if the system im planning to buy shortfalls. But im not so im not seeing the clear priority of having a 130% performing system. Could that be a bad thing, yes, but also a really good thing as it shows directly my personal uses compared to the effectiveness of the rig.

Im sure any client who goes to someone else for a build has important resource intensive needs in possibly a professional environment where output=money made or lost. I don't.

So far most of the people, other than you and the other i7 pusher, have said while this system definitely isn't top of the line because of the cpu, it should suit my personal needs and then some.


But do you sorta atleast see the correlation between my observations on my personal uses and how the rig performs. Why do alot of people buy ferrarris only to keep it in their garage or very limited use. Kinda difficult correlation on many aspects, but main idea is why get xxxxxxxxxxxxx power when previous observations show that I only regularly use xxx power anyway?

I do extremely appreciate your concerns and the other i7 pushers on a personal level but I just don't see the practicality of it based on the settings.



#45 iargue

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:45 PM

ye i was just told that. but i have been awared that the only triple channel boards are i7 1366 ones which are mad expensive ie; i7 build.

whats the point of my board being "DDR3 standard" anyway then:S. i researched a bit more and it seems that dual channel versus triple channel will only benefit i7's with a tiny perfomance boost anyway. its not like im gonna be hardcoring the processor too much anyway.


Its not a tiny performance boost. Its huge. You go from 800mhz to 1600mhz. Thats a huge difference in speed and performance. I've used DDR1, DRR2, and DDR3. Trust me. The performance that DDR3 provides is more then just slight.

so your saying in 2/3 years down the road, ill be better of having bought ddr2 mem instead of ddr3 if the triple channel isnt utilized, interms of adding additional RAM?


If you want to move onto DDR3 memory in the future, you can get DDR3 for now. What I am saying that -right- now. Getting DDR3 is 100% a waste of money. In the future if you buy a Triple Channel board, then you can put your DDR3 memory in it, and get the speeds you want. The biggest issue is that your paying big money for DDR3 now, when it will be much cheaper in the future. Your just going to have to pay for DDR3 and DDR2 ram.

as for the motherboard, someone has told me to wait for the 8xx series? will browse for higher FSB ones. if I have to sacrifice getting an mATX for speed, no problems with that?

EDIT: WAIT WAIT, i think you've misread the new mobo. the current one i want to get is this
ASUS M4A77TD AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
FSB 2600MHz Hyper Transport (5200 MT/s) DDR3 Standard.

so with that said, does the mobo still a cause of bottleneck other than not being able to triple channel capable.


I must have read the wrong motherboard :p.

Yes, you will still have a slight bottleneck, but its not going to be much at all, especially at only DDR2 speeds.


but they have released the 6 core AMDs on AM3 so that might be proof of dedication towards the AM3?

As a fix for your 'cpu bottleneck argument' not saying I'll do it but apparently the X6 1090T is identical to the power of some i7s, and the X6 1055T is only slower, which can be oc'ed, but costs only $200.


The person that your talking to about with AMD is definitely an AMD fanboy. USB 3.0 specification isnt complete yet. Intel isnt going to release their specifications on the USB 3.0 chip until its done. If you get USB 3.0, then you getting screwed by using an incomplete standard, chances are that future devices might not even support your USB port.

Nothing even comes close to comparing with the I7 right now. AMD's best processor comes within several thousand calculations per second of the i7. Not only that but I7 contains the Memory controller directly on the CPU. This means that it has direct access to the memory, and prevents bottlenecks caused by the CPU. If AMD -ever- wants to take advantage of DDR3 memory, they will have to include the memory controller on the CPU, and this means they will have to make a new socket. AKA. You cant upgrade to it. Until AMD does this, they can make an 120 core processor, and it will have bottlenecks like crazy. The i7 does run hotter then AMD, for an obvious reason. Its 10x as powerful. But Intel includes a throttling process that makes things wonderful. As I am typing right now, my processor is using less then 65w of power. Whenever I am playing Crysis on full specifications, then I will use more power, and get so much more performance out of it. But I digress. If anyone tells you that the I7 isnt worth the price your paying for it. They are lieing.



Final post on my standpoint on sticking with the 630.

copypasta directed to similar i7 pusher on another forum with similar reasoning as you. if it's you, I dunno.

My current home CPU build is $948 and can run two copies of Crysis at 30 fps. The only bottleneck that I have is with my Hard Drive, but I am forced to wait for SSD's to mature before I can upgrade. Looking at your 640 dollar build. I paid 300 dollars more, and my computer will outlast yours in performance by at-least 5 years. This is what I want to stress with you. If your current computer pleases you, and you just want to run the latest games. The build your planning will work. The thing that I am most concerned for you is that this problem will re-occur for you in just 2-3 years, if not before that. I want you to get a computer now, and use it for 10 years, before you have to upgrade again.

#46 Ambition

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 11:03 AM

Because, that has been settled.


Doesn't seem so. OP is still asking for advice.

#47 iargue

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 02:22 PM

Doesn't seem so. OP is still asking for advice.



You dont have boobs in your signature anymore. I'm not going to bother responding to you :)

#48 Ambition

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 02:32 PM

You dont have boobs in your signature anymore. I'm not going to bother responding to you :)


You just did. O:

#49 iargue

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 02:37 PM

You just did. O:



Boobless....

#50 Ambition

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 02:41 PM

Boobless....


Here you go.

WARNING: ADULT LINK

Edited by Prodigy, 07 May 2010 - 02:41 PM.



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