430 replies to this topic

[punkrockbigmouth]

 

Sweeney, on 04 September 2010 - 03:05 PM, said:

Kindly take your reductio ad absurdum and shove them in the orifice of your choice.

*slips a condom on the reductio ad absurdum before shoving it in orifice of choice*

[Sweeney]

kigger, on 04 September 2010 - 04:31 PM, said:

"She" for the record. Also I did not say I was ignoring safety precautions. Essentially what I'm saying is if you refuse to use the proper birth control methods you shouldn't be having sex or use abortion as a form of birth control when you get pregnant.

That's not what you said at all

You said that despite the safety precautions, if someone really can't deal with having a baby, they shouldn't be having sex. You can go and reread what you actually wrote, if you like.

Also, this woman's baby wasn't alive until she squeezed it out?
http://www.dailymail...mach-pains.html
"When you find out" is a bloody moronic way of determining an whether an organism is alive or not.

Not that "alive" is the important aspect anyway.

[bobsauce]

This is an extremely difficult issue with more sides and issues than I could ever fairly address and as a male I really don't think any opinion I have could come close to understanding but I do consider one thing when discussing this with friends.

For most people the issue is divided as to when the fetus is considered human life. For me there is a point that I would consider it a bundle of cells with as much life in them as an ant or a leaf. Yes they are alive. No they are not human. That is my personal opinion and who the hell really knows, but I always try to consider this:

Think of the worst person you have ever met. Maybe the most irresponsible, evil, apathetic, whatever. Consider them raising a child. Consider that until they do something horribly wrong no one can prevent them from raising that child. Some peoples lives are far worse than death.

On the other side, think of the poorest people you know. Some of them would be amazing parents but know that they could barely feed them, much less give them anything in life.

I don't know the answer and if a system was worked out with extreme caution I think either side could be right.

The most common comment I hear in support of prolife outside of the age of the fetus is the number of parents that want to adopt.

Then you have to consider all the kids that aren't adopted because they are either older than people want, or people want a cute chinese kid, etc, etc, etc, you end up with a huge government system of kids being moved all over the place with no stability.

From personal experience, I was orphaned at 3 months old. It took five years and a shit ton of money for a relative who became my legal guardian to be able to adopt me. It is not nearly as easy as people make it seem On the other side of that I'm pretty happy to be alive

Edited by bobsauce, 04 September 2010 - 05:03 PM.

[punkrockbigmouth]

 

Sweeney, on 04 September 2010 - 04:42 PM, said:

That's not what you said at all

You said that despite the safety precautions, if someone really can't deal with having a baby, they shouldn't be having sex. You can go and reread what you actually wrote, if you like.

Yeah, that's what she said. Unfortunately, sex serves more than the sole purpose of creating children. In my experience, sex is very pleasurable and has emotionally and physically connected me to another person in ways only mushy lovey dovey words can describe. So even though I use condoms and birth control because I don't want a child, I will not stop having sex any time soon just because FETUS is a rare, yet serious side effect.

[Sweeney]

kigger, on 04 September 2010 - 06:12 PM, said:

Misinterpret everything if you want to. I'm not saying people shouldn't have sex, for christ sakes I'm having sex BUT i'm being safe. IF you are being SAFE then sex is wonderful. If you are going to have sex and NOT be safe then deal with it. If you can't deal with having SAFE sex then you shouldn't be having sex for your fear of having a child. ALSO, it's my damned opinion. If I got pregnant now then to me my child would be "alive".

"Ultimately if you do not want to have children and are scared that you will have children despite taking precautions, than don't have sex."

Misinterpret, sure. Maybe you just don't know what the things you write mean?

ALSO, your damned opinion is just as capable of being wrong as everyone elses. Don't expect my respect just because it's an opinion.
Justify it, or change it.

[sonic]

When my ex was pregnant I used to answer the phone like this when she called " Glendale abortions, no fetus can beat us " lol. she had a miscarriage

[Sweeney]

kigger, on 04 September 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

If you want to have sex and use precautions and still get pregnant? Still not fine to abort (IN MY OPINION). Unless of course the lady has health concerns or was raped.

This is the bit that I have issue with.
It's an emotional, rationally insupportable position.

Quote

Also I never once said my opinion was right above yours or anyone else. It's mine that's all that matters. I don't want or need your respect. Your just some person on the other end of a computer to me, doesn't really bother me at all. The whole point in this was a supposed friendly debate, I didn't come on here to shit on anyone.

You seem to be fuzzy on the definition of "debate section".

Quote

I will say, I'm a little disappointed with all of this. Granted I hoped into this site in a very controversial topic, but I didn't realize that I would get attacked. Actually I was told by someone that attacking people on these sites could get you kicked. But oh well. People will be how they will be.

So you deleted your account, instead? Cry more, little girl.

[Ali]

Sweeney, on 05 September 2010 - 05:39 AM, said:

So you deleted your account, instead? Cry more, little girl.

New record in how quickly you upset someone on this site?

[Sweeney]

Ali, on 05 September 2010 - 05:50 AM, said:

New record in how quickly you upset someone on this site?

Not even close.

[Lallard]

Quote

Also, this woman's baby wasn't alive until she squeezed it out?
http://www.dailymail...mach-pains.html
"When you find out" is a bloody moronic way of determining an whether an organism is alive or not.

How the fuck does she not know? I'll bet you that lady must've been hella fat.

[punkrockbigmouth]

Sweeney, on 05 September 2010 - 05:39 AM, said:

So you deleted your account, instead? Cry more, little girl.

She weighed the pros and cons and finally decided it would be best for her to abort her account. The irony!!

[Sweeney]

Lallard, on 05 September 2010 - 08:05 AM, said:

How the fuck does she not know? I'll bet you that lady must've been hella fat.

Betting isn't required. If you had clicked the link, you would have seen a photo.

punkrockbigmouth, on 05 September 2010 - 08:23 AM, said:

She weighed the pros and cons and finally decided it would be best for her to abort her account. The irony!!

If only she'd used protection.

[Gee]

Yes, I think abortion should be permitted.
Call me immoral, whatever you want, but abortion should be first and foremost a WOMANS choice since it is her body.
Some may think it is selfish "killing" a life, but I think it can also be selfless in other situations. For me personally, I am not against abortion and I am PRO-CHOICE but I do not see it as a form of birth control, meaning that if a person uses the means of abortion to constantly prevent having a child (say having 40 abortions) I find that questionable.

If I were a teenager who needed an abortion, I'd do it because given my life situation, neither myself or the father could take care of the baby. My parents are NOT supportive. Keeping the child and trying to raise it would kind of be selfish because I could not give it the life it deserved. It sucks when you raise a baby out of obligation and not out of want. Not only does the quality of life decrease for the parents, but for the child as well. I understand that people should abstain or use protection, but sometimes even protection isn't enough or mistakes happen.
Adoption is also not an option for me because I would not want my body to go through those changes, then having some sort of bond between the baby and then having to give it away. Then the everlasting guilt you'll feel when you do give it away, ugh.

So... tldr; I'm all for pro-choice.

[Adina]

Cody, on 04 September 2010 - 03:12 PM, said:

I don't think that's reductio ad absurdum... It's like if you don't wanna get hit my a car... look both ways when you cross the street, wear a helmet if you're on a bike, be aware of your surroundings, drive defensively. Abortion in your simile would be walk willy nilly wherever you want and if you do get hit by a car, just have the car demolished and go to the hospital.

There shouldn't be a need to go to the hospital because you shouldn't have been playing in the street without protection anyways.

Looking both ways before you cross the street and wearing a helmet when you're on a bike doesn't prevent you from being ran over by a car. You may survive, but there's always that chance. Just because you drive defensively, doesn't mean a drunk idiot won't smash into you.

That being said, I'm pro-choice. I think no matter what stage of your life you are in, if you're not ready for a child, why should you bring it into this world? If you know you either have no money to support it, or the father won't be there, or you won't care for it, wouldn't it be better to just not have the child? Especially if you were taking all the precautions in order not to get pregnant. Ultimately if you don't want to get pregnant, it's true; just don't have sex. But who is really not going to have sex? There's so many ways to keep from getting pregnant, but nothing is 100%. It's awfully close to 100%, but not quite there.

I definitely think there will always be people who will abuse abortions, but what can you do? There's people abusing everything now a days. I don't think a few idiots should ruin other peoples rights. I think abortion is a right.

I'm not very good at debating, and my points are all over the place, but that's simply how I feel about the matter.

[Gee]

tr0picana, on 05 September 2010 - 09:47 AM, said:

Looking both ways before you cross the street and wearing a helmet when you're on a bike doesn't prevent you from being ran over by a car. You may survive, but there's always that chance. Just because you drive defensively, doesn't mean a drunk idiot won't smash into you.

That being said, I'm pro-choice. I think no matter what stage of your life you are in, if you're not ready for a child, why should you bring it into this world? If you know you either have no money to support it, or the father won't be there, or you won't care for it, wouldn't it be better to just not have the child? Especially if you were taking all the precautions in order not to get pregnant. Ultimately if you don't want to get pregnant, it's true; just don't have sex. But who is really not going to have sex? There's so many ways to keep from getting pregnant, but nothing is 100%. It's awfully close to 100%, but not quite there.

I definitely think there will always be people who will abuse abortions, but what can you do? There's people abusing everything now a days. I don't think a few idiots should ruin other peoples rights. I think abortion is a right.

I'm not very good at debating, and my points are all over the place, but that's simply how I feel about the matter.

You summed up what I think.
Why SHOULD you bring a child (that isn't even wanted, as harsh that sounds) into the world when you can't give your all to raise the child? That you can't support it financially.

Abortions will be abused, people think it is a method of birth control sadly, and that's the reality. There's also those who need an abortion (ie: rape victims, victims of incest, etc) ...

[Adina]

I also think if it's illegal, people who are desperate will resort to stupid coat hanger methods.
Or people will go to others who preform illegal abortions in their basements.
Not safe.

[Gee]

tr0picana, on 05 September 2010 - 10:49 AM, said:

I also think if it's illegal, people who are desperate will resort to stupid coat hanger methods.
Or people will go to others who preform illegal abortions in their basements.
Not safe.

My aunt tried to abort my cousin using medications/weird concoctions. (This was in China). Needless to say, my cousin did not die but she was born blind on one eye and had to get her eye removed. So she has only one eye to this day and wears a glass eye. (Hey, you can't notice but still...)

If abortion wasn't so frowned upon I doubt she would have used that method but a safer way. Abortion is safe if done in a clinic, despite what all the myths say really.

[Adina]

wakasume, on 05 September 2010 - 10:55 AM, said:

My aunt tried to abort my cousin using medications/weird concoctions. (This was in China). Needless to say, my cousin did not die but she was born blind on one eye and had to get her eye removed. So she has only one eye to this day and wears a glass eye. (Hey, you can't notice but still...)

If abortion wasn't so frowned upon I doubt she would have used that method but a safer way. Abortion is safe if done in a clinic, despite what all the myths say really.

Yeah, I believe it is safe also but what would people do if abortion wasn't legal? There would be so many deaths, and unhealthy kids being born. It's true that many people also smoke, drink, and mix multiple medications in order to kill their fetus. I'm more open to the idea of abortion than I am to people harming themselves, and impacting their health just to have a self induced abortion.

[lexis]

well I believe that abortion should be legal... but of course with the right reasons...

[pyke]

Sweeney, on 05 September 2010 - 05:39 AM, said:

This is the bit that I have issue with.
It's an emotional, rationally insupportable position.


You seem to be fuzzy on the definition of "debate section".


So you deleted your account, instead? Cry more, little girl.

I don't think it's insupportable. If you take all precautions, you still have sex knowing there's a chance you could get someone pregnant and that's something you should be willing to take accountability for.

I hope it doesn't burst your bubble, but I don't think she deleted her account out of butthurt.

[Sweeney]

pyke, on 05 September 2010 - 02:33 PM, said:

I don't think it's insupportable. If you take all precautions, you still have sex knowing there's a chance you could get someone pregnant and that's something you should be willing to take accountability for.

I hope it doesn't burst your bubble, but I don't think she deleted her account out of butthurt.

I'm sorry, but if you're trying to suggest that making the decision to abort your unborn foetus isn't "taking accountability", you're woefully naive.

And, it looks like it to me

[pyke]

Sweeney, on 05 September 2010 - 02:55 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but if you're trying to suggest that making the decision to abort your unborn foetus isn't "taking accountability", you're woefully naive.

And, it looks like it to me

It's simply a thing of perspective. I take precautions because I don't plan on creating another person at this time, but I'm not going to stop something that's happened. After seeing my brother with his son, I don't think I could justify an abortion, even if the child is just a bunch of cells with no consciousness at the time.

She signed up when she saw the abortion topic and wasn't really interested in discussing it beyond what she had. Kigger's my girlfriend by the way.