69 replies to this topic

[Sweeney]

The biodiversity helps keeping an ecosystem balance.
The greater the biodiversity, the stronger/more adaptable it is.
(Mammoths don't count as their enviroment has changed more significatively).

But the argument can be made equally that if they were a significant contributing factor in the balance of their ecosystem, their extinction would not occur.

[Random]

But the argument can be made equally that if they were a significant contributing factor in the balance of their ecosystem, their extinction would not occur.

This.

[Lallard]

I was talking about using this technology for something more useful.
IMHO helping endangered or recent extinct species can be more helpful than cloning mamoths.

But if this were to be a success, imagine how much more the whole cloning project can be pursued further. Plus reviving such a prehistoric species could contribute to research in anthropology (to some extent).

Cloning technology I believe has been in use for animal conservation for while some time now. Some time during my internship visit to the lab @ SDWAP, they've been actually preserving a hell load of DNA samples of critically endangered species for that exact purpose bioengineering-related studies.

EDIT:
IMAGINE BEING ABLE TO BIOENGINEER THESE MOFOs. IN B4 POKEMON.

Edited by Lallard, 15 January 2011 - 07:12 PM.

[Nunc]

ITT: Ziz trying to up his/her post count

[luvsmyncis]

ITT: Ziz trying to up his/her post count

Yeah, me too.
I really don't give a shit about the mamoths.

[equitatus]

Yeah, me too.
I really don't give a shit about the mamoths.

me three
but nowhere near as hardworking as ziz......
Hats off to you man....may the mammoths stay in the ground

[Nunc]

I think we should just ban all science and research forever, since there are better things to focus on. Like the economy or Gregorian chant.

/sarcasm

If science allows us to do something, hell by all means we should do it. Like that big well the soviets dug in the Kola peninsula, many miles deep (apocryphally reaching hell in the process), Why? who the fuck knows. Epic as shit though.

[CuriousOyster]

Pretty soon you'll see "Beware of Sabertooth" on local fences hehe

[Nunc]

Why? I'm not saying they shouldn't do the cloning, I just don't think they should clone a mammoth and think we would be better off using the newer technology advancements to save animals that have recently become extinct or are on the brink of extinction.

They could also use the technology to clone human organs that are a match to the receivers DNA so the body won't reject them. I think that this sort of research is more useful than bringing a prehistoric beast back to life


Giant hole in the ground sounds cool, got a link to story?

I disagree. I think we should do whatever science allows. Not like all science is ruled by some deity who decides exactly what to focus on. I bet more than 3/4ths of researchers right now aren't doing cool stuff, they'r etrying to find the next new drug or gene set so Monsanto or whoever can become rich. A major fault of capitalism IMO

Also, the link:
http://en.wikipedia....erdeep_Borehole

[redlion]

But the argument can be made equally that if they were a significant contributing factor in the balance of their ecosystem, their extinction would not occur.

Their extinction could be a result of an externality, not related to the ecosystem. e.g., Meteors. Or I suppose volcanic eruptions or batshit virii from space.

You can't dismiss their evolutionary value simply because they no longer exist. Their genes could hold the key to curing breast cancer, or human growth deficiency diseases. Without reviving them and significantly breeding for recessives and dominant spreads, there's no way to know what Mammoths can do for us.

[Sweeney]

Their extinction could be a result of an externality, not related to the ecosystem. e.g., Meteors. Or I suppose volcanic eruptions or batshit virii from space.

You can't dismiss their evolutionary value simply because they no longer exist. Their genes could hold the key to curing breast cancer, or human growth deficiency diseases. Without reviving them and significantly breeding for recessives and dominant spreads, there's no way to know what Mammoths can do for us.

My point is simply that "evolutionary balance of the ecosystem" is a wooly argument, and not valid either way.

And we can't revive a breeding population. There simply isn't enough genetic variety in the few samples we have. There can't possibly be.

[redlion]

My point is simply that "evolutionary balance of the ecosystem" is a wooly argument, and not valid either way.

Okay, fine. I guess that point wasn't worth defending anyway.

And we can't revive a breeding population. There simply isn't enough genetic variety in the few samples we have. There can't possibly be.

You seem pretty emphatic. You sure?

Regardless, the amount of genetic material isn't the important part, it's that we will have introduced new genetic material to the biosphere for the first time artificially. Obviously it would be in a controlled environment so we don't end up with Monsanto "Terminator" genetics, where artificial seed that won't reproduce further seed is out-growing, out-producing, and displacing traditional seed.

[Propitiatory]

And we can't revive a breeding population. There simply isn't enough genetic variety in the few samples we have. There can't possibly be.

But... but... but.. Adam and Eve populated the whole world!! =O

My only question is, what's the point in reviving them? Is it solely to entertain us? I'd rather scientists use their funds and ability to find a cure for cancer or some other incurable disease.

[jcrdude]

My only question is, what's the point in reviving them?

I think some of the fun of science lays in the discovery. I would imagine that if we were to break down the top reasons for reviving a mammoth, they would probably be:

3. Respect of the public
2. Respect amongst peers
1. Because I can

I'd like to see what an actual scientist or another scientifically minded individual would think. I was going to include money as #4, but I would imagine the startup costs for reviving a mammoth would be prohibitive.

[Blissey]

I could see the army using cloning, but instead of creating "Supersoldiers" They revive animals from the past and duel them. America and their Velociraptors just brutally murdered Canada's Dodo Birds.

[jcrdude]

I could see the army using cloning, but instead of creating "Supersoldiers" They revive animals from the past and duel them. America and their Velociraptors just brutally murdered Canada's Dodo Birds.

If you get to make monsters from the past, I'm laying claim to the monster of the future: the tigeralligatorsharkeagle. That thing will kick a Velociraptor's ass.

[equitatus]

But then again comes the problem of where to put the ressurected mammoths.
For you can't just add new species into and ecosystem. The balance would be skewed and it might collapse

[Waser Lave]

But then again comes the problem of where to put the ressurected mammoths.
For you can't just add new species into and ecosystem. The balance would be skewed and it might collapse

I'd suggest nowhere near China, they'll eat just about anything which moves.

[Nunc]

I hardly think the Siberian taiga will be much affected, positively or negatively, by the appearance of wooly mammoths. Though they have no predators. their gestation period (22 months!) is enough to prevent a population explosion. Though I doubt that'll be much of a problem x)

[Melchoire]

Don't have time to read the article. But guessing they're gonna put a fertilized egg inside another elephant and see what happens?

I'd really like to see them try this with an indricotherium:


That would be a million times more bad ass than a mammoth.

[Warriors]

While I am iffy on the topic..this happened a looong time ago...10,000 + years..The Earth, NOT GOD, has a way of dealing with species and I guess it was just the time of the Mammoth..Certainly these species should not be brought back, the unknown factor of them on our enviornment could be disastrous. New and unknown pathogens, destroying the ecosystem...

I can see maybe bringing back the Tasmanian Devils, the bats dying out from white nose, the thousands of frogs dying from a virus, but regular extinction is verrry dangerous and very common during epochs..


PS. I love how you brought this up after watching Jurassic Park XD

Edited by Warriors, 17 January 2011 - 11:01 AM.

[Nunc]

So now you're making 'the earth' or 'nature' out to be some irrevocably powerful deity that wipes out species at its will? That's bullshit, and you ought to know that.

.Certainly these species should not be brought back, the unknown factor of them on our enviornment could be disastrous. New and unknown pathogens, destroying the ecosystem...

Reconstructing a species by DNA replication and a. insemination will only bring it back, not its diseases or gut flora or whatever you're talking about. They only fully died out ~16K years ago, too. On Wrangel island I believe.

regular extinction is verrry dangerous and very common during epochs..

Dangerous to whom?

[Mr. Hobo]

Dangerous to whom?

The poor bastards who are going extinct

[Warriors]

So now you're making 'the earth' or 'nature' out to be some irrevocably powerful deity that wipes out species at its will? That's bullshit, and you ought to know that.


Reconstructing a species by DNA replication and a. insemination will only bring it back, not its diseases or gut flora or whatever you're talking about. They only fully died out ~16K years ago, too. On Wrangel island I believe.


Dangerous to whom?

I never said Earth was a deity...But it can be said that there have been major points of extinctions in each and every epoch. Evolution or Nature affects species...Species die, others remain at the top. This has been going on since.

Regular extinctions are brought out by the environment of humans and other animals...Its dangerous for the whole ecosystem. These are external influences that affect an otherwise normal species..Bats eat all the insects and keeps them in check...therefore the system is disrupted..

DNA/RNA contains everything...The susceptibility of viruses and other things, the genetic defects, everything..

[Gen]

Just look at the australian rabits, ain't them a good example about why we shouldn't do stuff like this?
That's a great thing for science, and it would be awesome to see a mammoth alive, but only if it would be in a cage (which wouldn't be that great, I mean, for the mammoth. It wouldn't be nice to bring an animal to life just so we can see it behind a cage).
Besides the australian rabits, I have tons of other examples on why animals that doesn't belong to a place shouldn't be brought to it...