44 replies to this topic

[Sage]

I'm curious how those statistics are defined, myself. I know the US isn't #1 (or even in the top 10) on a lot of things but the way all those categories are worded, you could flip the list around a few dozen different ways and nobody would know. (Quantify 'freedom of the press', for example?

[iargue]

Best country in the world?

Anyway, congrats USA! The people that refused to raise your debt ceiling because you have a spending problem have effectively added 100+ billion dollars to your debt every year.

L2fact check before you post things as evidence

Some of you people are either misguided, ignorant, or trolling. (I'm inclined towards the first, though...)

America isn't a bad place to live... It's a great country... However, our incompetent politicians who are unwilling to compromise and whom live in a purely ideological world that isn't ruled by real life are killing it. There is a reason the education system is broken in this country... There is a reason we are one of the last 1st world westernized democracies to come towards socialized medicine... There is a reason we are in debt up to our eyeballs! A) The American people are too dumb to care about politics... B) As I mentioned above, our politicians are incompetent and not diplomatic whatsoever. C)The middle class is caught in this myth of Horatio Alger... The middle class identifies themselves with the wealthy and they fight vehemently for the rights of the wealthy while the wealthy become filthy rich off the backs of the poor and middle class. There are several systems in place to keep the bottom class poor and to keep the wealthy stinking rich. (Though that is a subject for another topic...)

The point here is that nothing good comes from a credit downgrade. Now, we have an extra 100 billion dollars/year in interest to pay off that we didn't have before. (Note: The war in Afghanistan is ~120 billion annually) Think about the healthcare that could have been granted to the poor with that money... or the education that could be given to impoverished children... All that extra money burnt away because politicians couldn't unify in the interest of our nation. It's pathetic and nothing good will come of it.

You act like America is the only country in the world with issues.

As Alexis de Tocqueville said, "All democracy will fail when people realize that then can vote themselves more money". The reason that all of these problems are much more evident is because it is the largest implementation of democracy to ever exist. We created a system that work well when numbers were small, but rapidly grew out of control. With over 300 million people in the country, representing the different ideas and beliefs is entirely impossible. While you claim to be so highly enlighten to how terribly flawed our system is, you drown yourself in ignorance. Its easy to point out flaws and mistakes and how to fix it, when you are sitting on the side lines, drinking in half of the story, and ignoring the rest.

Until you have tried to run a country, do not attack the people who do run the country. They attempt to do something that is impossible to comprehend by anyone who has not attempted to run a country.

There is no way to put people into power, and expect everything to be perfect, as everyone has their price. There is no way to run the country perfectly, unless you can find an uncorruptable person with above genius level iq, and give him absolute power. Something that is impossible. And even that is doomed to fail.

[Waser Lave]

Until you have tried to run a country, do not attack the people who do run the country.

That reads like a suggestion that the only people who can provide valid criticism of government are previous political leaders, if that was your intention it's a pretty farcical statement.

[iargue]

That reads like a suggestion that the only people who can provide valid criticism of government are previous political leaders, if that was your intention it's a pretty farcical statement.

Have you tried to manage a country with 300 million people, with over a hundred million dollars being spent every single day? I didn't think so. So what gives you the right to believe for a second, that you know what they have to go through on a daily basis?

[Waser Lave]

Have you tried to manage a country with 300 million people, with over a hundred million dollars being spent every single day? I didn't think so. So what gives you the right to believe for a second, that you know what they have to go through on a daily basis?

I can't recall being the leader of the free world but perhaps it's slipped my mind. So you're suggesting that the only people who should be able to provide criticism of your government are the 5 (?) living presidents? That's an interesting notion of democracy you have there.

[Kyuu]

Well, this is a downer. I like to travel a lot so it really suited me to have a good exchange rate for the USD because it made visiting foreign countries better...

Actually, the sad thing is that in two days (or at least, a few -- now it's the morning of the 8th and apparently this was posted about three days ago) it's made a difference in my life. I've been keeping track of the Swiss Franc to USD rate since I have a bunch of CHF left over from earlier this year, and I traded in at about 1.09CHF to USD... now it's around 1.30. It was still around 1.20 a week ago or so too, so I'm about $60 richer now than I was a few days ago, lol.

[iargue]

I can't recall being the leader of the free world but perhaps it's slipped my mind. So you're suggesting that the only people who should be able to provide criticism of your government are the 5 (?) living presidents? That's an interesting notion of democracy you have there.

Who else has the right to tell them that they are doing things wrong? For all we know, they have saved us billions of dollars. We do not know that. WE do not run the country. All that we know is the end result of everything that happens. We don't get to see the decisions, and the affects as they get to see them. They have everything presented to them, and make a decisions based on things we have no clue about. So why are you allowed to tell these people that they are doing a bad job, when you don't even know what their job actually is?

And I'm speaking about everyone in congress. They actually run this country.

[Rikku]

Who else has the right to tell them that they are doing things wrong? For all we know, they have saved us billions of dollars. We do not know that. WE do not run the country. All that we know is the end result of everything that happens. We don't get to see the decisions, and the affects as they get to see them. They have everything presented to them, and make a decisions based on things we have no clue about. So why are you allowed to tell these people that they are doing a bad job, when you don't even know what their job actually is?

And I'm speaking about everyone in congress. They actually run this country.

Hence the root of the problem. WE the people, are supposed to be running this country, but instead, it seems as though people would ratehr relinquish any and all power the the select few representatives. It used to be an honor to represent your state/ district, and now, it's all about money, that's the only reason these people are in Washington.

I do think that I hit one of the major problems square on the head though. A bit earlier you mentioned how the country has grown to over 300 million, and how it is impossible to satisfy every single interest group. That is definetly true. However, my problem with this is, when we elect the President (ether Rep. or Dem.) it should be a person of integrity, someone who has experience, and does not shove one group's ideas down everyone's throat. There should be some compromise, and not the "i'll do this if you do that" kind, but "we'll meet in the middle and resolve this issue so that eveyone is kind of happy about it" type. But what do I know, all elected officials care about is getting reelected, sot hey will always be trying to please 51% of populus. Screw the otehr 49%, who cares what they want?

Who else has the right to tell them that they are doing things wrong? For all we know, they have saved us billions of dollars. We do not know that. WE do not run the country. All that we know is the end result of everything that happens. We don't get to see the decisions, and the affects as they get to see them. They have everything presented to them, and make a decisions based on things we have no clue about. So why are you allowed to tell these people that they are doing a bad job, when you don't even know what their job actually is?

And I'm speaking about everyone in congress. They actually run this country.

And again, WE THE PEOPLE, have every right to tell them that they are wrong. if I don't feel that the government is serving this country's or my best interests, then you're damn right i'll tell them that they're wrong. I've done it before and i'll do it again. Don't you people ever call your senator's office or write them letters? If enough people did that it actaully would make a difference.

[WharfRat]

Hence the root of the problem. WE the people, are supposed to be running this country, but instead, it seems as though people would ratehr relinquish any and all power the the select few representatives. It used to be an honor to represent your state/ district, and now, it's all about money, that's the only reason these people are in Washington.

I do think that I hit one of the major problems square on the head though. A bit earlier you mentioned how the country has grown to over 300 million, and how it is impossible to satisfy every single interest group. That is definetly true. However, my problem with this is, when we elect the President (ether Rep. or Dem.) it should be a person of integrity, someone who has experience, and does not shove one group's ideas down everyone's throat. There should be some compromise, and not the "i'll do this if you do that" kind, but "we'll meet in the middle and resolve this issue so that eveyone is kind of happy about it" type. But what do I know, all elected officials care about is getting reelected, sot hey will always be trying to please 51% of populus. Screw the otehr 49%, who cares what they want?



And again, WE THE PEOPLE, have every right to tell them that they are wrong. if I don't feel that the government is serving this country's or my best interests, then you're damn right i'll tell them that they're wrong. I've done it before and i'll do it again. Don't you people ever call your senator's office or write them letters? If enough people did that it actaully would make a difference.

I agree so much.

Argue, I may not know what goes on behind closed doors when it comes to national security, but I DO know that the honchos from S&P stated that there were two reasons for the downgrade. The first being that not even savings was had. They said that either President Obama's plan or Paul Ryan's plan would have made the difference they were looking for. The second reason was that there is too much political gridlock in D.C. right now and they don't feel that the political parties will have the ability to effectively govern. THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE DOWNGRADE! Straight from the horses mouth...

[iargue]

I agree so much.

Argue, I may not know what goes on behind closed doors when it comes to national security, but I DO know that the honchos from S&P stated that there were two reasons for the downgrade. The first being that not even savings was had. They said that either President Obama's plan or Paul Ryan's plan would have made the difference they were looking for. The second reason was that there is too much political gridlock in D.C. right now and they don't feel that the political parties will have the ability to effectively govern. THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE DOWNGRADE! Straight from the horses mouth...

what what right does this group of people have to determine that? What exactly makes them capable of deciding this information effectively. What quality/ability to they posses that makes them capable of judging a group of people elected to lead?

Hence the root of the problem. WE the people, are supposed to be running this country, but instead, it seems as though people would ratehr relinquish any and all power the the select few representatives. It used to be an honor to represent your state/ district, and now, it's all about money, that's the only reason these people are in Washington.

I do think that I hit one of the major problems square on the head though. A bit earlier you mentioned how the country has grown to over 300 million, and how it is impossible to satisfy every single interest group. That is definetly true. However, my problem with this is, when we elect the President (ether Rep. or Dem.) it should be a person of integrity, someone who has experience, and does not shove one group's ideas down everyone's throat. There should be some compromise, and not the "i'll do this if you do that" kind, but "we'll meet in the middle and resolve this issue so that eveyone is kind of happy about it" type. But what do I know, all elected officials care about is getting reelected, sot hey will always be trying to please 51% of populus. Screw the otehr 49%, who cares what they want?



And again, WE THE PEOPLE, have every right to tell them that they are wrong. if I don't feel that the government is serving this country's or my best interests, then you're damn right i'll tell them that they're wrong. I've done it before and i'll do it again. Don't you people ever call your senator's office or write them letters? If enough people did that it actaully would make a difference.

Of course we need actual negotiations. Compromise used to be about "I want x, and you want z, lets do y" and it worked out well enough. But its changed into a system where a group of people want this, and so to get it, they have to give something completely unrelated. This turns a 200 page bill, into a 800 page bill where no one at all actually knows what happens, and money is completely wasted. Unfortunately, that will not change. We have a two party system. A system designed were they can't ever agree on one thing. Ever. And as long as we have a group of people who all have different interests, and can be corrupted, then our system will fail like always. The good news is that they wont actually do anything to phase every day life.

And what honestly does writing a letter to your senator do? Do they have a contractual obligation under penalty if they do not follow what you write? How do you know if they even read the letter. Do you get a personal letter written back to you letting you know that he/she read it, and will or will not be supporting the issue?

Once they are elected into power, they have no need to please you anymore. At that point they are part of the system (The most powerful part of it) and could even potentially control everything about the system, including the voting process that you think gives you the power to tell them how they should act. We live in a system were the people should have power, but do not have any power.

Take for instance Obama. After making hundreds of thousands of promises. He has failed to deliver on the majority of them. Did he need to? Not really, he is in power. Once he reaches his final term, he will then try once again to please the people, so he can stay for four more years and do whatever he pleases.

The people you elect hold no obligation to serve you in any way, shape, or form.

[unworthy]

Screw you all. I like my country and im not leaving. fuck obama, fuck the left and the right seats and screw congress. This country is still the most beautiful country in world. haters.

HAH! I don't know where the "I'm the best and everyone sucks" attitude came from but its funny as hell.

"I like my country but everyone controlling it is shit"
"Its so beautiful because I've never went anywhere 3 hours from my house"

I have americans over here on vancouver island all the time and they are always "wow you are so lucky to live here"...Actually the person that bought the house next door is an american.

[Scot]

HAH! I don't know where the "I'm the best and everyone sucks" attitude came from but its funny as hell.

"I like my country but everyone controlling it is shit"
"Its so beautiful because I've never went anywhere 3 hours from my house"

It came from the media and politicians who when faced with criticism would cover their ears and scream USA USA USA to avoid actually looking for a solution.

[Rikku]

Of course we need actual negotiations. Compromise used to be about "I want x, and you want z, lets do y" and it worked out well enough. But its changed into a system where a group of people want this, and so to get it, they have to give something completely unrelated. This turns a 200 page bill, into a 800 page bill where no one at all actually knows what happens, and money is completely wasted. Unfortunately, that will not change. We have a two party system. A system designed were they can't ever agree on one thing. Ever. And as long as we have a group of people who all have different interests, and can be corrupted, then our system will fail like always. The good news is that they wont actually do anything to phase every day life.

And what honestly does writing a letter to your senator do? Do they have a contractual obligation under penalty if they do not follow what you write? How do you know if they even read the letter. Do you get a personal letter written back to you letting you know that he/she read it, and will or will not be supporting the issue?

Once they are elected into power, they have no need to please you anymore. At that point they are part of the system (The most powerful part of it) and could even potentially control everything about the system, including the voting process that you think gives you the power to tell them how they should act. We live in a system were the people should have power, but do not have any power.

Take for instance Obama. After making hundreds of thousands of promises. He has failed to deliver on the majority of them. Did he need to? Not really, he is in power. Once he reaches his final term, he will then try once again to please the people, so he can stay for four more years and do whatever he pleases.

The people you elect hold no obligation to serve you in any way, shape, or form.

I still try to stay optimistic and try to believe that the people in Washington can at least agree on some things, but you're probably right, they won't.

As far as the elected officials go, you're also right, they are not under any obligation to do as you say, however, they would never be reelected if they constantly went against the will of the people. So in theory, they are supposed to do what the people that elected them want them to do. Yes I know that's not what always happens, as a matter of fact, it seems like it's quite the opposite of that. They seem to vote in accordance with their personal beliefs, not the beliefs of the people they represent.

Your point about Obama is well taken. But we all know that right before the election next year he will start doing "feel good" things to attract all of the positive attention to himself. The media will play suit and he will probably get reelected again, at which point he won't care about the approval ratings or anything else. That's what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of all of the things on his agenda that he is going to ram down my throat as soon as he becomes a lame duck president (which will be the second he gets reelected).

[pyke]

America is a great place to live. I love your chart on the stuff we are not so good at. but we consistently in the top. and mind you there are many critical things that arent on there. obviously ie biggest military, standard of living, one of the lower tax rates, best higher-learning system (college and beyond), most advanced science programs (ie ITs, space, chem, bio), best advancement in medical drugs to extend life and ease pain, and probably the biggest thing the best place in the world for OPPORTUNITY to better one's life. JS.

I'd argue the state of living, education and opportunity points. Best universities maybe, but your kids typically can't go through school without putting themselves into decades worth of debt.

L2fact check before you post things as evidence




You act like America is the only country in the world with issues.

As Alexis de Tocqueville said, "All democracy will fail when people realize that then can vote themselves more money". The reason that all of these problems are much more evident is because it is the largest implementation of democracy to ever exist. We created a system that work well when numbers were small, but rapidly grew out of control. With over 300 million people in the country, representing the different ideas and beliefs is entirely impossible. While you claim to be so highly enlighten to how terribly flawed our system is, you drown yourself in ignorance. Its easy to point out flaws and mistakes and how to fix it, when you are sitting on the side lines, drinking in half of the story, and ignoring the rest.

Until you have tried to run a country, do not attack the people who do run the country. They attempt to do something that is impossible to comprehend by anyone who has not attempted to run a country.

There is no way to put people into power, and expect everything to be perfect, as everyone has their price. There is no way to run the country perfectly, unless you can find an uncorruptable person with above genius level iq, and give him absolute power. Something that is impossible. And even that is doomed to fail.

Partially comic relief, the point I'm making is that anyone saying the US is the best is an ignoramus. Your political system has rapidly become an ugly mud slinging match since the Reagan era.

[jcrdude]

I'm afraid of all of the things on his agenda that he is going to ram down my throat as soon as he becomes a lame duck president (which will be the second he gets reelected).

At the moment, he is coming off as the more level-headed one, opting to take it like a champ in the credit situation (Trying to fix an economy with budget decreases alone? What is this?) instead of accepting a deadlock and further harming the economy.

If you want to avoid him "ramming an agenda down your throat," then keep the same bull-headed officials in place. He bluffed pretty good, but folded once the pot got too big.

[Rikku]

At the moment, he is coming off as the more level-headed one, opting to take it like a champ in the credit situation (Trying to fix an economy with budget decreases alone? What is this?) instead of accepting a deadlock and further harming the economy.

If you want to avoid him "ramming an agenda down your throat," then keep the same bull-headed officials in place. He bluffed pretty good, but folded once the pot got too big.

Awfully tempting, although it all depends on the 2012 elections. Right now I don't think anyone knows with any certanty what is actaully going to happen in 2012. Some polls show another land slide in favor or republicans, and otehr show a landslide in the favor od democrats.... the only thing the polls seem to agree on is that the current president is on rather shaky ground....

[Jake]

America is a great place to live. I love your chart on the stuff we are not so good at. but we consistently in the top. and mind you there are many critical things that arent on there. obviously ie biggest military, standard of living, one of the lower tax rates, best higher-learning system (college and beyond), most advanced science programs (ie ITs, space, chem, bio), best advancement in medical drugs to extend life and ease pain, and probably the biggest thing the best place in the world for OPPORTUNITY to better one's life. JS.

You're joking right? Do you realise what the topic of this thread was? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Fucking irony is funny fucking irony.

[pyke]

You're joking right? Do you realise what the topic of this thread was? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Fucking irony is funny fucking irony.

To be fair, the US could almost afford the cuts if they weren't all over the middle east.

[redlion]

Look on the bright side, at least Canada is still AAA. Hell, even the UK is still AAA and our public finances are pretty much non-existent.

I read an article in the Economist a few days ago about how the western world's finance gurus are dumping the prime currencies for hedge currencies like the Canadian Dollar and the Swiss Franc (again) and how the process is screwing local swiss business through the exchange rate. Still, if the trend holds, we'll all be doing it soon enough.

It's the American way to buy it before you've actually earned enough to afford it.

Hence our invention of mortgages, sub-prime mortgage trading, collateralized debt obligations, and the myriad of other debt packages that the big commercial and investment banks could think up. Only in the US could debt be traded for a profit. But we're entitled to own our own home by 30, right?

I'm curious how those statistics are defined, myself. I know the US isn't #1 (or even in the top 10) on a lot of things but the way all those categories are worded, you could flip the list around a few dozen different ways and nobody would know. (Quantify 'freedom of the press', for example?

Freedom of the press is usually taken from agencies like Reporters Without Borders, who annually assess the freedom of movement and reporting within countries around the world. It has to do a lot with censorship, how hard the government leans on press organs to put out their 'offical' word, and ease of reporting to international headquarters. It's a fairly established statistic, I see no real reason to question it's efficacy in comparing nations. Just because the 'Land of the Free' isn't on top doesn't mean the statistic is skewed.

Have you tried to manage a country with 300 million people, with over a hundred million dollars being spent every single day? I didn't think so. So what gives you the right to believe for a second, that you know what they have to go through on a daily basis?

No one would ever be promoted to a position of higher authority than they're born with if we used your criterion. Simpleminded foolishness. You're arguing for a class based society.

I'd argue the state of living, education and opportunity points. Best universities maybe, but your kids typically can't go through school without putting themselves into decades worth of debt.

Partially comic relief, the point I'm making is that anyone saying the US is the best is an ignoramus. Your political system has rapidly become an ugly mud slinging match since the Reagan era.

I read a few days ago that the cost of tuition in US universities has outgrown inflation by more than five percentage points for the past ten years. Private education is bullshit, almost as prevalent in the states as it is in the UK (although for some reason you Brits reverse the names of public and private institutions).

Makes me want to leave for a socialist country, for sure.

[Waser Lave]

I read an article in the Economist a few days ago about how the western world's finance gurus are dumping the prime currencies for hedge currencies like the Canadian Dollar and the Swiss Franc (again) and how the process is screwing local swiss business through the exchange rate. Still, if the trend holds, we'll all be doing it soon enough.

Yeah, currencies like the Swiss Franc are seen as safer but if lots of people start buying it it makes Swiss exports more expensive so it hurts their exporting companies.