25 replies to this topic

[legacycm]

What am I trying to do?


Basically, everyone here should know the concept behind limited stock Retired items, otherwise known as R180's. If not, read http://www.neopets.c...487211&week=439 You all also know that seeing as they're retired, they'll eventually go up in price. So why not speed up this process? If Neocodex banded together, we could artificially manipulate the prices.

Suggested items


My Sisters Frilly Skirt


Description: This seasons hippest fashion for chilly holiday mornings. This was given out by the Advent Calendar in Y8.

Current price: ~10k-15k as of 05/09/11

My current SDB stash: 52

My evaluation: This item will definitely rise given time. It is a wearable item, which only boosts its popularity and therefore price, so given a year or two and with artificial price manipulation, this item will be valued in the hundred's of k's.

Action to be taken

The action that I am going to take is to buy as many of these as possible and wait til the SW no longer stocks then and until there is none in the TP. Then I will set my own price and it will all work from there. Regretfully, nothing ever works like this so there'll be a few hiccups along the way..


Please suggest to me what else I should add to this thread! Any items worthy of watching or investing in should be posted in this thread so that I may add them to this list.

Realise that investing in Retired items is a LONG-TERM investment and that it may take months, if not years for any significant price changes. If you are not patient, don't bother with Retired items.

Edited by legacycm, 05 September 2011 - 04:31 PM.

[wtfints]

yea let's get mass frozen since everyone know we all buying it.

[legacycm]

yea let's get mass frozen since everyone know we all buying it.

You can't get frozen for market manipulation. It's not breaking the rules, it's just simply unethical. Unless you can show me where it says so in the rules...which I haven't read, and don't intend to.

[Waser Lave]

I removed your other thread since this one had posts on already.

 
In addition to rarity 180 retired items, you could also consider rarity 101 items from things like site events because they're essentially retired too and released in limited numbers. Items like Sassy Fire Faerie Wig which was released during the recent faerie quest event thing is a good example.

[legacycm]

I removed your other thread since this one had posts on already.

 
In addition to rarity 180 retired items, you could also consider rarity 101 items from things like site events because they're essentially retired too and released in limited numbers. Items like Sassy Fire Faerie Wig which was released during the recent faerie quest event thing is a good example.

Good enough, thanks

[Kyouma]

I'll participate. I've got np to spare, and i'm interested in whether something like this would actually work, giving the huge quantity of people who did advent calender.

[ZKK]

Personally I am not a fan of investing in (relatively recent) Advent Calender items. I highly doubt My Sisters Frilly Skirt will reach UB status within 2-3 years even with artificial manipulation. I would much rather prefer the books or stamps.

Edited by ZKK, 05 September 2011 - 05:37 AM.

[Cubic]

Quite often in your Editorials and rules, you have said that it is against the rules for a group of people to get together and purposely inflate items to corner a market. You state that it is okay if only one person does this by themselves, but it seems that nowadays the name of the game is "get with the group and buy up all of an item." How are people being allowed to corner markets like this when it has been stated that group inflation is against the rules? ~kalis_coraven
... ....

Also, to reiterate a past Editorial, yes, one person can buy up all the items they want. However, if they make them unbuyable and suddenly the price jumps from 99k to, say, 600k and start getting offered on expensive items, then it's considered scamming.




This is editorial 315. I can't find any of those previous editorials, but it's pretty clear that it's against the rules. It also sounds like
TNT doesn't monitor it very closely, though.

Edited by Cubic, 05 September 2011 - 06:10 AM.

[Kyouma]

Also, to reiterate a past Editorial, yes, one person can buy up all the items they want. However, if they make them unbuyable and suddenly the price jumps from 99k to, say, 600k and start getting offered on expensive items, then it's considered scamming.

I say that's stupid. TNT is being stupid. How can it be considered scamming? Its just price manipulation.

[zandra]

when hogging retired items, there are a few things that you have to take note

1.Quantity in circulation (mass distributed item? compare plot prize stamps to advert calender stamps)
2.Item consumption (does it disappear after use like stamps?)
3.Usefulness of the item/Demand of the item (compare retired trinkets to stamps)
4.How long since it was retired( older the better)

I used stamps quite often in this comparison as i find that it is better investment then books. due to the sheer range of books there are people dont mind missing 1 or 2 compared to stamps.

[Boggart]

This is a bannable offense. Banding together to artificially inflate a price isn't scamming, but it's against neopet rules.

From Issue 298 Question 10:

Can you get frozen for inflation of items? ~fa5tb1dd3er

If you decide to buy x number of y item, that's fine. If you tell, hint, or in any way encourage your friends or others to also buy the items to help you inflate them, you will be frozen. This is also true with the Trading Post. Sellers offering the same item may not coordinate to raise the price of a certain item. Price fixing is not allowed.

Satisfied?

[Junsu]

I doubt this will work lol. Theres already thread like this anyhow
Right after theres no more on the market, people will start selling and then it'll go back down again.

An item I've inflated is the Season Evil Coconut
http://www.neocodex....al-evil-coconut
So I bought over 100 of these items for around 20k each, and then I sold them for 40k each, but but they went back down after a few months

[Pavement]

I had a huge collection of Shooting Star Muffins (retired, one-use, best weapon of its kind) thinking I'd sell 'em off in a few yrs when supplies went down. I ended up selling them all during the Faerie's Ruin plot and still making quite a bit.

[legacycm]

This is a bannable offense. Banding together to artificially inflate a price isn't scamming, but it's against neopet rules.

From Issue 298 Question 10:

Can you get frozen for inflation of items? ~fa5tb1dd3er

If you decide to buy x number of y item, that's fine. If you tell, hint, or in any way encourage your friends or others to also buy the items to help you inflate them, you will be frozen. This is also true with the Trading Post. Sellers offering the same item may not coordinate to raise the price of a certain item. Price fixing is not allowed.

Satisfied?

Even if that is true, how will it be monitored? It's not as if we post our usernames here and go "Hey TNT, over here! My username is x and i'm helping y buy out z item. Please ban me!". I highly doubt that they will be able to track us, but if it makes you feel batter, I'll change the thread contents.

when hogging retired items, there are a few things that you have to take note

1.Quantity in circulation (mass distributed item? compare plot prize stamps to advert calender stamps)
2.Item consumption (does it disappear after use like stamps?)
3.Usefulness of the item/Demand of the item (compare retired trinkets to stamps)
4.How long since it was retired( older the better)

I used stamps quite often in this comparison as i find that it is better investment then books. due to the sheer range of books there are people dont mind missing 1 or 2 compared to stamps.

1. Yes, it's still pretty populated, with a lot of people still having the item.
2. True, no consumption, will take a long time to rise in price.
3. Will be very useful in the future due to it being wearable. If you hold onto them for long enough they're be worth loads and loads...
4. Only been retired 3-4 years, will take a while to rise.

On another note, do you people have any items that you should be monitored and potentially bought for long-term profit? If so, post here or PM me and i'll add it to this thread.

[Silver]

My suggestion:

Get a group of say ten people, who all have at least 5m.

Find an item people *need*, one that disappears after use. (codestones, map pieces, books and stamps)

Tell the group of people to sell at a certain price. (eg: buy codestone X, sell at 7k)
For example, two items I used in the past were; Downsize! and Earthen Scorch Stone. While neither of these items is one-use, speculation of war helped fuel the prices, I doubt I was alone in my actions even though I acted through my own volition, and told no one of my plan.

Downsize! started at 4500, I rose them to 7500.

Earthen scorchstone started at 250np, I rose them to 500np.

The strategy is to choose an item relatively low in price; this way should backlash hit before you sell them off, you at least get your NP back. Doing the math with the lowest priced codestone, I found that 10 people with 5m each could purchase somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12k of them. This would certainly raise the price enough to where those who invested would make some profit; by the time that prices return to normal via the invisible hand, the ten investors should have made profit, and if not profit, end up breaking even (NP wise) in addition to a number of the item "left over", which can eventually be sold through shops or kept.


I personally wouldn't invest in the item you suggest, it's just not needed enough. Individuals are far more likely to splurge an extra 2k to train their pet rather than splurge on 150k to make their pet look nicer. When it comes down to it, you can't take money from people if they don't have it to take. Far more people have the 2k extra than the 150k of a wearable.

For those concerned that others would routenely get the item via random event, it's far more likely that they'll "ride the wave" and price their close to what the market average is. Say 1000 people get the lab map through random event per day. Even if all 1000 are put into the market, those 1000 will be bought up quickly enough by other investors/consumers of the item. Since on average the group would buy more than 1000 each day, that's what drives up the price.

Edited by Silver, 05 September 2011 - 04:50 PM.

[legacycm]

This is a bannable offense. Banding together to artificially inflate a price isn't scamming, but it's against neopet rules.

From Issue 298 Question 10:

Can you get frozen for inflation of items? ~fa5tb1dd3er

If you decide to buy x number of y item, that's fine. If you tell, hint, or in any way encourage your friends or others to also buy the items to help you inflate them, you will be frozen. This is also true with the Trading Post. Sellers offering the same item may not coordinate to raise the price of a certain item. Price fixing is not allowed.

Satisfied?

^ Read

Also, I'm talking Retired Items here, so LONG-TERM investment. What you're doing here is price manipulation with a group of friends, which is both unethical and against the rules. At least what I'm doing here is ok. Not trying to have a go at you or anything.

Suggestion







Ring of Sloth Stamp


Description: A dastardly weapon if ever there was one. This was given out by the advent calendar in year 5.


Current price: ~100k NP


What I think: This item is guaranteed to rise, but the rate at which I am not sure. It has been retired for 7-8 years now, so I am interested to see what you guys think.

I personally wouldn't invest in the item you suggest, it's just not needed enough. Individuals are far more likely to splurge an extra 2k to train their pet rather than splurge on 150k to make their pet look nicer. When it comes down to it, you can't take money from people if they don't have it to take. Far more people have the 2k extra than the 150k of a wearable.

It not needed enough NOW. The whole point of Retired Item investing is that those items are not needed as much when you buy them and later on they'll be in demand, i.e. you get to profit off it. Of course, there'll be a price limit before people decide to not buy it. That's all part of the game. If you wait for it too long and the price is too high, it'll become super HTS , wait not long enough and you risk selling it off for too little when it could have risen to a lot higher.

[Silver]

*shrug*. Once items pass over the 99,999np mark they become harder to sell. I'm generally a reseller/investor of sorts, I can't imagine wanting to sell 50 HTS items, as even one HTS is a pain in the butt. If you have the patience for that, props to ya.

[ZKK]

I doubt this will work lol. Theres already thread like this anyhow
Right after theres no more on the market, people will start selling and then it'll go back down again.

An item I've inflated is the Season Evil Coconut
http://www.neocodex....al-evil-coconut
So I bought over 100 of these items for around 20k each, and then I sold them for 40k each, but but they went back down after a few months

agreed.

Anyway, I bought a ton of Pepperolive Pizzas for 2-3k and for a while they reached 30k (http://www.neocodex....pperolive-pizza) but dropped back down quickly. They seem to be increasing again though

[zandra]

i invested on yooyu's cos i found them cute and the older ones are pretty rare. e.g darigan

it doesnt matter if it doesnt increase anyways. at least i dont mind keeping them

[legacycm]

i invested on yooyu's cos i found them cute and the older ones are pretty rare. e.g darigan

it doesnt matter if it doesnt increase anyways. at least i dont mind keeping them

True, those are the sorts of items I'm looking for. Items that are useful and kinda (ish?) rare. Something that isn't over 2 million NPs is a good bet . Anything else will NEVER sell, unless you're one of those crazy people who would spent hundreds of millions to get all the Utility Fish...

[Teucer]

Buying items that have already retired... the prices don't seem to increase very much over the years. Unless you buy them the second they retire, which is very hard to do.

I've been investing in Faerie Queen Dolls. Yes they are not retired, but can you imagine what they'd be worth if they ever did retire? And they're EST, I buy them for 1.4mil, and can easily sell them for 1.4mil if I ever need the neopoints.

[ZKK]

I've been investing in Faerie Queen Dolls. Yes they are not retired, but can you imagine what they'd be worth if they ever did retire? And they're EST, I buy them for 1.4mil, and can easily sell them for 1.4mil if I ever need the neopoints.

The same could be said for almost any avatar item though... Chokato/ZDAP etc

[Jaws]

The same could be said for almost any avatar item though... Chokato/ZDAP etc

True, but it's a good idea much better to invest in high cost avatar items than to invest in clothes, if you want to manipulate the market you should go for the items that are already low in stock and in demand.

[legacycm]

True, but it's a good idea much better to invest in high cost avatar items than to invest in clothes, if you want to manipulate the market you should go for the items that are already low in stock and in demand.

Items that are low in stock and in demand would mean it costs more, meaning less profit?

[Jaws]

Items that are low in stock and in demand would mean it costs more, meaning less profit?

No, I mean items like Zdap, there are only like 20 being actually sold on the market, if you were to buy them for the price of 7m you could resell them for 8m and they would still be bought even if just for a one time use.