38 replies to this topic

[Rooshy]

I feel sad for the people saying college is stupid and a scam.
Yes, it costs a lot of money, but it's not a scam. It maybe a waste of time and stupid, but it pays off.
You'll see when the person with the degree gets the promotion and you don't.

-Gets ready for this to turn into an arguing thread.-

[Applepi]

I never took the SATs, but I did take the ACTs. Did really well without taking any courses or doing any practice... I know there are people who bomb standardized tests even though they are crazy smart, but there are also people who do awesome without even trying. I dont think standardized tests dont really test knowledge as much as they do your ability to just take tests.

also to anyone wanting to do grad or professional school... it doesnt end with the SATs/APs...there are GREs/MCATS/PCAT/ and god knows what else. good luck

[redlion]

I'll take the bait.

I feel sad for the people saying college is stupid and a scam.
Yes, it costs a lot of money, but it's not a scam. It maybe a waste of time and stupid, but it pays off.
You'll see when the person with the degree gets the promotion and you don't.

When the person with the degree gets the promotion?

I'm sad every avenue you've considered in life involves promotions where a degree is the deciding factor. Don't kids aspire to be artists anymore? Or writers? Poets? Rock stars even?

College is a huge investment. If you invest in the wrong degree field, it's pretty much a waste. I should have taken the easy path and gone IT. I understand it easily enough, and I would have had an entry level position right out of university. Instead I took a liberal arts degree. GL&&GG finding a job, amirite?

Don't go to college for the sake of going to college. If you're going to devote 4 years of your life to one field, make sure it counts.

[Ellipses]

The SAT is very reliable - people score within their range mostly. But the problem I see with standardized test(SAT atleast) is that it doesn't measure what it's supposed to measure. For example, theres a math/writing/reading section. One of the parts of writing is the essay and a significant portion of the writing score is based on the essay. However, any writer/teacher will tell you that GOOD writing is rewriting. Writing one essay without a draft is hardly a measurement for writing capabilities.

Math section is the biggest joke. Anyone who completed 8th grade math would do well on this. Ability to do math problems on the SAT math section is hardly an accomplishment. Math is really about creativity/imagination because problems are never as straight forward as the ones you see on the SAT. Math isn't really about solving those problems on the SAT. It's mostly about proofs, if you don't have the imagination/creativity to be able to prove abstract concepts - you're not good at math despite getting 800 on the SAT math section.

The problem with AP testing is that data has shown that pass rate is largely related to the teacher. So, using AP scores as a measure of a student isn't quite valid either.

Edited by Ellipses, 12 September 2011 - 11:30 AM.

[Dazz]

Over here it's not what you know, it's who you know

[Narcissa]

I feel sad for the people saying college is stupid and a scam.
Yes, it costs a lot of money, but it's not a scam. It maybe a waste of time and stupid, but it pays off.
You'll see when the person with the degree gets the promotion and you don't.

College wouldn't be a scam if they could absolutely ensure that you get a job when you've graduated. Most graduates don't. So point blank, don't get a stupid degree and you may be lucky. Even then, it's rough right now. Even people with Masters are having issues. So yeah, until that day comes, its a scam.

My school doubled our tuition this semester and fired professors so classes are extremely overbooked. Many people I've talked to, are also feeling the pain of school price hikes. So I know I'm not the only one.

/end thread

Edited by Narcissa, 12 September 2011 - 02:21 PM.

[Applepi]

College wouldn't be a scam if they could absolutely ensure that you get a job when you've graduated. Most graduates don't. So point blank, don't get a stupid degree and you may be lucky. Even then, it's rough right now. Even people with Masters are having issues. So yeah, until that day comes, its a scam.

It shouldn't be up the the college/university to make sure their graduates get a job post graduation. Most respectable universities have numerous resources available to grads and soon to be grads that aid in helping them find a job (anything ranging from workshops to help you edit and properly write a resume, job fairs, mock interview days, and some schools even help you out by hooking you up to an extensive alumni network). If graduates have a hard time finding a job, it is because they are not putting in the time and effort to find a job. Yes the economy is bad and times are hard but there are still jobs out there its just a matter of being tenacious and not giving up. Getting a college degree actually does greatly improve your chances of getting a job. You can look up the statistics about percentages of people with a bachelors that have a job vs those that only have a high school diploma. There used to be a time when getting your high school diploma was enough, but that time has passed and those that don't go on to higher education are not as competitve in the market.

That being said, of course there are professions that dont really require a ton of education and it is not ABSOLUTELY necessary to get a college degree. However, most of them still require some sort of program and training.

[Donaldmax]

I'm sad every avenue you've considered in life involves promotions where a degree is the deciding factor. Don't kids aspire to be artists anymore? Or writers? Poets? Rock stars even?

Artists don't make a lot of money. Good luck with that.
Writers don't make a lot of money. Good luck with that.
Poets don't make a lot of money. Good luck with that.
Rock stars. In your dreams.

Unless you are some Pablo Picasso or the author of Harry Potter or Ernest Hemingway, then sure. Good luck with that path.
Chances are, you won't be really successful and it will be much harder to rise to prominence in these fields.
It's all about engineers, scientists, business nowadays. What century are you in?
In the end, the guy with the degree laughs at you. He lives the life you dream of and you struggle to get enough money to even go on vacation. Accept the cold truth.

[Narcissa]

It shouldn't be up the the college/university to make sure their graduates get a job post graduation. Most respectable universities have numerous resources available to grads and soon to be grads that aid in helping them find a job (anything ranging from workshops to help you edit and properly write a resume, job fairs, mock interview days, and some schools even help you out by hooking you up to an extensive alumni network). If graduates have a hard time finding a job, it is because they are not putting in the time and effort to find a job. Yes the economy is bad and times are hard but there are still jobs out there its just a matter of being tenacious and not giving up. Getting a college degree actually does greatly improve your chances of getting a job. You can look up the statistics about percentages of people with a bachelors that have a job vs those that only have a high school diploma. There used to be a time when getting your high school diploma was enough, but that time has passed and those that don't go on to higher education are not as competitve in the market.

That being said, of course there are professions that dont really require a ton of education and it is not ABSOLUTELY necessary to get a college degree. However, most of them still require some sort of program and training.

My friend who just graduated top honors from nursing school as their valedictorian from a damn good school and is working part time time, did tons of clinicals and networking; will be laid off come October. Less than half of her graduating class currently have jobs and only about a 1/8 of that are working fulltime. In her own words nursing school was the promised land but now? It means zilch. Pretty much refutes everything you just said.

Improving your chances =/= getting a job in a shit economy. While degrees have the potential to improve your chances of getting a good job, most of those studies are not up to date. Look at anything recent and the amount of graduates who aren't getting jobs period is astounding.

[Kyouma]

My friend who just graduated top honors from nursing school as their valedictorian from a damn good school and is working part time time, did tons of clinicals and networking; will be laid off come October. Less than half of her graduating class currently have jobs and only about a 1/8 of that are working fulltime. In her own words nursing school was the promised land but now? It means zilch. Pretty much refutes everything you just said.

Nurse jobs were getting really popular the past few years. It was a simple enough job that didn't require a lot of studies or qualifications, and it provided a decent pay.
Of course with the influx of nurses, there are going to be some that don't get jobs. Not to mention the recession that we're in doesn't help much either.

But the fact still stands at this. Many jobs require specialization. Any average joe-schmoe who only has a high-school degree doesn't have the education or the skills to work in that specialized field. Those jobs will only go to those who have the necessary skills. That's where college comes to play.

[Bone]

Artists don't make a lot of money. Good luck with that.
Writers don't make a lot of money. Good luck with that.
Poets don't make a lot of money. Good luck with that.
Rock stars. In your dreams.

Unless you are some Pablo Picasso or the author of Harry Potter or Ernest Hemingway, then sure. Good luck with that path.
Chances are, you won't be really successful and it will be much harder to rise to prominence in these fields.
It's all about engineers, scientists, business nowadays. What century are you in?
In the end, the guy with the degree laughs at you. He lives the life you dream of and you struggle to get enough money to even go on vacation. Accept the cold truth.

Yeah, guys. Who needs artists, thinkers, and philosophers? You should manipulate stocks or force people to make loans they can't afford. Or maybe be a doctor (who cares if you don't care about helping people? Malpractice suits are far and few between). Better yet, you can monopolize an industry, stall innovation, and drive local businesses to the ground!

I mean, look at this bullshit. Who needs any of this when you can have more money?

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yavud8xtdc




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsOPR9659Ww

[Donaldmax]

Yeah, guys. Who needs artists, thinkers, and philosophers? You should manipulate stocks or force people to make loans they can't afford. Or maybe be a doctor (who cares if you don't care about helping people? Malpractice suits are far and few between). Better yet, you can monopolize an industry, stall innovation, and drive local businesses to the ground!

I mean, look at this bullshit. Who needs any of this when you can have more money?

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yavud8xtdc




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsOPR9659Ww

What are you trying to say? Make your point.

Your sarcastic tone is not very helping.

[Hydrogen]

It's graduate schools where selection starts to matter... so go to an accredited school that you can easily get A's at. It'll look much better when you're applying for graduate school. (Which you will... because otherwise you are going to be less qualified than anyone else on the jobs market right now. Everyone will be ahead of you either because they got hired straight out of highschool and have worked in your industry much longer than you and are a safer bet, or because your job is so specialized, that they much prefer someone with a higher level of education than you. It's sad, but it's true. =/)

This isn't always true. I got hired straight out of college by the company I work for right now. The majority of people are more well educated than I am. While I plan to go back to finish graduate school after a few years in the industry, there are many companies out there looking to hire people with just an undergraduate degree. There are many companies who will even hire people with only a high school diploma if they can show they are competent. It's harder for them, but it's not impossible. That said, education can never do you wrong.

[Kyouma]

Yeah, guys. Who needs artists, thinkers, and philosophers? You should manipulate stocks or force people to make loans they can't afford. Or maybe be a doctor (who cares if you don't care about helping people? Malpractice suits are far and few between). Better yet, you can monopolize an industry, stall innovation, and drive local businesses to the ground!

I mean, look at this bullshit. Who needs any of this when you can have more money?

I mean, look at this bullshit.

How about some modern art?

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN2zcLBr_VM

I don't think he was being sarcastic.

Edited by Kyouma, 12 September 2011 - 07:58 PM.