87 replies to this topic

[Mishelle]

If there weren't more politicians with a focus on being secular they wouldn't be as secular as they are. Here the word secular is almost a swear word. If you say happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas people will lose their shit. US and Canada may be similar in societal norms but when it comes to politics and the prominence of religious fundamentalism they're pretty different. For example there's way more violence committed in the name of religion here.

Edited by Mishelle, 13 August 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[Mishelle]

I've been to Canada multiple times. Most of the time I go to Victoria with my cousins who live there and I haven't had anyone jump down my throat for saying Happy Holidays. Other times I've gone to New Brunswick and Halifax for touristy reasons but most of the time I go to BC. I also have plenty of friends in Ontario (Toronto, Tweed and Windsor) and and friends who have moved to Canada from California to go to school. They all tell me that compared to the places they've been in America it's a lot more laid back than in America where they can get very authoritarian over religion.

[8143FF763271]

Eh I am inclined to disagree with you. My hometown has a population of less then 1000 and for some reason they feel the need to have 6 churches.
SIX. It's like this all over Canada, although the percentage of Atheists may be SLIGHTLY higher than in the U.S. it's not enough to make a difference. It's not enough to say someday Canada will no longer be religious. If that were the case, the U.S's religions would be near extinct as well by your logic. Based on the percentage of Atheists. Since it's only a minor difference. They'd both likely die out. Not just Canada.

There are solid historical/cultural facts that do make the US a much more religious nation than Canada. Albeit both should follow a pattern of secularization, religious conservatism is much more prevalent in the US due to both a traditionally protestant culture and the furthering of religious fervor during the Cold War.

[8143FF763271]

Okay so the States is more religious. But not a ridiculous amount more.
I am from NB and just because no one jumped down your throat in the short amount of time you visited, doesn't mean it does not happen.
It does. More often then not. Especially in the smaller provinces.

Regardless I don't see any reason why Canada poses more of a 'threat' (for lack of a better word) of religion going extinct. No solid justifiable reason.

She's saying one thing, and it's that nations tend to secularize as they modernize. This is true. Most Western nations should present rates of atheism similar to those of Canada. She makes the distinction that religion would show more resistance in both developing nations and the US. Also true, because religious identity is a big part of American life. The fact is that most Western nations have accepted and embraced the separation of church and state. In America, half of the vote is still based on largely religious phenomena.

[Mishelle]

I posted multiple things to support that but remember this is all speculation. No one knows whether or not religion will ever die out but in regards to how much religion is ingrained to how the country is ran Canada is way more secular than the US.

[Alodielle]

Evolutionary sociocultural anthropologist stepping in here. I'll try not to write a thesis.

All animals develop a fear of the unknown. The unknown is dangerous. The unknown is dark shadows that can and often do hold a hungry, skulking panther. Human beings, with their far superior cognitive capabilities, have developed a way to combat this fear: through the provision of answers. We also anthropomorphize -- make the inhuman seem more human, so that we can better relate to and understand it.

Religion started out as a way to explain the inexplicable -- to make the terrifying unknown known. What is lightning to someone without science? Well, lightning brings light and a very loud and angry-sounding crash. It can also bring fire and death. What can we imagine getting so angry that it throws such things at us? Why, a very angry, very powerful human, of course. A god. And these gods all have reasons for what they do.

Very primitive explanation, of course, and one you've all heard. We all studied "cavemen" in grammar school.

Our cognitive abilities have definite downsides. For one, we understand that death is permanent -- that something we have known and loved will not be returning. The very earliest true humans carried out burial rites on those that passed away. Religion was a way of softening that blow: if you thought you would see your loved one again someday, or that they would at least be well taken care of, you were not as likely to dissolve into hysterics and risk the survival of your person or your tribe.

Once states were formed, religion became a way for the elite to maintain general control of the masses. In some cases (Taoism), the main interest was to guide citizens to a peaceful understanding of this life we must live. In other cases (Judeo-Christian religions), it became a tool for utter control. The Catholic Church's comprehension and manipulation of the very core of human nature utterly astounds me; I say in all seriousness, with no trace of sarcasm, that the Church is the greatest, wisest, most beautiful and most terrible villain the world has ever seen. To tell the general populace that they may not read because they might misinterpret the Scriptures, and thus must look to the elite for all answers... that if they pay all they have to the Church, they might buy their way into heaven... that each king, Pope, and member of the nobility was set in his place through some measure of divine intervention... to subdue fully half the population by interpreting the Scriptures to declare women to be the weaker and more inherently evil sex, thereby wiping out fully half their potential competition... to quietly yet forcefully encourage darkness of the mind, then prove to be the only source of light through art, hope, and salvation... it's all absolutely brilliant.

Now, as to today.

One of two things must happen before all major religions might die:

• We evolve past the need for answers.
• Science answers all our questions.

Neither of these things will ever happen. #1 will never come to pass because, put simply, we are animals; our reptilian brains are still quite present and strong within us. If you take exception to the concept of "never," then consider the hundreds of millions of years over which we evolved to what we are today. It would take much longer to evolve into something unrecognizable in such a core way from ourselves, our cousins, and our ancestors.

#2 will never come to pass because we will always find new questions, and thus there will always be answers to seek.

Religion is the easy path to those answers. It is, at its core, nothing short of immediate gratification (and if any of you have ever sneaked a piece of birthday cake when you're on a diet, you know first-hand how awesome instant gratification feels). Faith in science requires some measure of bravery as we face the unknown. Religion offers instant relief from those ever-dangerous shadows. As long as our reptilian brains tell us that danger lurks in the unknown... as long as science takes more than a generation to answer any "important" question... there will be a foothold for religion in our, and any, society.

These religions, specifically? They'll die out someday. Or they'll evolve so drastically as to be unrecognizable. As science and experience solidify our shared knowledge of the world and those beyond it, beliefs must morph to flow around that knowledge without shattering. Religion is forced to change with discovery; evolution is as key to religion's survival as it has to our own. In that way, religion may just be one of the single the most recognizable children of mankind.

I'll shut up now.

Edited by Alodielle, 13 August 2012 - 01:22 PM.