67 replies to this topic

[WharfRat]

I don't know how political some of you on codex are but I'm a bit of a political junkie... I was rather unimpressed with the RNC last week so I never bothered to post on it but I have been watching the DNC and so far I'm really pleased... Anyone else watching this? Here is a speech by San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro that I thought was really great. http://abcnews.go.co...cation-17155641

Also here are some highlights from Cory Booker's Speech http://abcnews.go.co...oments-17153340

So... anyone else keeping up with this political season?

P.s. Sorry for any spelling and or grammatical mistakes... just got home after a long day at work followed by several hours at the pub... I'll try to correct them tomorrow if these mistakes remain.

[StrikeFreedom]

Hello, I've started to become a bit of a political junkie myself lately.. I was impressed by Ann Romney's speech at the RNC and thought that Michelle Obama couldn't top that. But she did! I thought Michelle Obama gave a really good performance tonight.

I'm Canadian but if I could vote, I'd vote for Obama. The Romney/Ryan ticket is a bit too outdated in terms of social platform to win, but a part of me is worried that their relentless lying attack ads and outspending Obama will actually result in their victory.

[iargue]

I stopped watching this speech after he turned to bashing everything about the Mitt Romney campaign. Thats all I feel like they do anymore. They just sit there attacking each other, saying bad things about each other. It feels like this entire campaign comes down to "I at least I'm not the other guy" and nothing more then that.

Why do we not have a politician that openly states their plan on how to do what they promised. Why don't they provide us with the bills and policies that they plan on enacting to accomplish the magical "Reduce taxes and the deficit" goal that they always promise? Why is the question always "What will do you" Not "What is your exact plan on accomplishing this?".

I can't put my support behind anyone that just says they will do something. My first chance to vote was to vote for Obama, and I've never been so disappointed in my life. Politics is a horrible thing.

[Waser Lave]

Let's hope one of the Democrats doesn't decide to just lie throughout their speech like Paul Ryan did because it's pretty obvious that you'd get caught out pretty quickly.

[Cript]

The Ryan speech will go down in history as one of the great mysteries of the day. When the truth could have been used, when you could have picked any type of out of context problems as your examples, why make them up. The fact, that President Obama has not used the secret area 51 time machine and gone back to stop a plant from closing that occurred before he was president; dude, we all know how dangerous those time machines can be.



No to mention I might need to sneak back into Canada when we all lose our health care because the Ryan fantasy has never worked, never can work, never will work.

Since I'm not that far from Janesville, I'll be the millionth person to say there were 100 people working in that plant in April of 2009. It was positively not closed.

I didn't watch last night but did they address any of the following?

1. Unemployment is higher than when Obama took office.
2. National Debt is over $6 trillion higher than when Obama took office.
3. Food stamp enrollment has DOUBLED since Obama took office.

These guys can look people in the fact and say that the country is better off than we were 4 years ago?

The Ryan speech will go down in history as one of the great mysteries of the day. When the truth could have been used, when you could have picked any type of out of context problems as your examples, why make them up. The fact, that President Obama has not used the secret area 51 time machine and gone back to stop a plant from closing that occurred before he was president; dude, we all know how dangerous those time machines can be.



No to mention I might need to sneak back into Canada when we all lose our health care because the Ryan fantasy has never worked, never can work, never will work.

Weird, I go to the Dr all the time and never have issues. I worked hard, got a job, and have insurance. You and yours want me to work harder so you don't have to?

Hello, I've started to become a bit of a political junkie myself lately.. I was impressed by Ann Romney's speech at the RNC and thought that Michelle Obama couldn't top that. But she did! I thought Michelle Obama gave a really good performance tonight.

I'm Canadian but if I could vote, I'd vote for Obama. The Romney/Ryan ticket is a bit too outdated in terms of social platform to win, but a part of me is worried that their relentless lying attack ads and outspending Obama will actually result in their victory.

Yeah, good thing Obama doesn't lie...can you imagine if he tried convincing people that Ryan's plan affects current seniors or that they'd raise taxes on the middle class or that he hasn't paid taxes, or I don't know, that he was responsible for some dude losing health insurance and his wife dying of cancer? That'd be quite the stretch...errr...wait, no?

Since we're on the topic of lying at the convention:

http://qvga.factchec...from-charlotte/

• The keynote speaker and others claimed the Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, would raise taxes on the “middle class.” He has promised he won’t. Democrats base their claim on a study that doesn’t necessarily lead to that conclusion.
• The keynote speaker, San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro, also said there have been 4.5 million “new jobs” under Obama. The fact is the economy has regained only 4 million of the 4.3 million jobs lost since Obama took office.
• Castro also insisted Romney and Ryan would “gut” Pell Grants for lower-income college students. Actually, the Ryan budget calls only for “limiting the growth” of spending for the program, and Ryan has said the maximum grant of $5,550 would not be decreased.
• A Democratic governor said Romney “left his state 47th out of 50 in job growth.” Actually, Massachusetts went from 50th in job creation during Romney’s first year to 28th in his final year.
• Two advocates of equal-pay legislation said women make 77 cents for every dollar men earn. That’s true on average, but the gap for women doing the same work as men is much less, and not entirely or even mostly the result of job discrimination.
• A union president accused Romney of seeking “a government bailout” for “his company.” Not really. In fact, Romney negotiated a favorable but routine settlement with bank regulators on behalf of a former company, the one he had left to form his own Bain Capital firm. No taxpayer funds were involved.
• Multiple speakers repeated a claim that the Ryan/Romney Medicare plan would cost seniors $6,400 a year. That’s a figure that applied to Ryan’s 2011 budget plan, but his current proposal (the one Romney embraces) is far more generous. The Congressional Budget Office says it “may” lead to higher costs for beneficiaries, but it can’t estimate how much.
• Rep. James Clyburn engaged in partisan myth-making when he said “Democrats created Social Security” while Republicans “cursed the darkness.” History records strong bipartisan support in both House and Senate for the measure President Roosevelt signed in 1935.

My favorite by far is the fact that there are FEWER people employed today then when Obama took office yet his entire party continues to lie about it.

Keynoter’s Jobs Spin

Keynote speaker Castro also put a misleading spin on employment data. He claimed “we’ve seen 4.5 million new jobs” under President Obama. In fact, the nation has regained 4.5 million jobs that had been lost, but employment is still below where it was when the president took office.

Castro: Four years ago, America stood on the brink of a depression. Despite incredible odds and united Republican opposition, our president took action. And now we’ve seen 4.5 million new jobs.

Although he didn’t say so, Castro is referring only to private-sector jobs — which have fared better than government jobs — and he is using February 2010 as the starting point, because that was the low point for private-sector jobs. There were 106,773,000 jobs then, and the number has been rising ever since. In July, there were 111,317,000 private-sector jobs, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That’s an increase of 4,544,000.
The picture changes dramatically, however, when starting from the beginning of Obama’s presidency. Between January 2009 and the most recently reported figures, there has been a net increase of just 332,000 private-sector jobs.
Moreover, if you include all jobs — including the hard-hit government job sector — there remains a net decrease of 316,000 jobs since the start of Obama’s presidency. Total employment has gained about 4 million since February 2010, not 4.5 million. It’s all in how you slice the data.

No one is offended that these guys decided to use 2/2010 as the starting point for their job numbers instead of using the actual start of Obama's term? No? Kool-aid tastes that good, eh?

[Cript]

I'm sorry this post keeps getting longer but I'm simply flabbergasted, especially with you younger folks. You're trying to re-elect someone whose presidency has resulted in fewer people being employed, and Food Stamp enrollment DOUBLING. Let's not forget the highest youth unemployment in history. Those food stamps might be free for those enrolled but if you ever somehow find a job someday, you get to pay for them.

Again, unless he's willing to use that time machine and stop Paul Ryan and George W's policies, the economy was in free fall. Had Mitch and the rest of his anti-America/pro multinational party actually done the bare minimum expected of any previous House/Senate, we'd be much further out of this the Bush Depression.

You do know that Democrats had the presidency, house, and senate for the first 2 years of his presidency, right? But hey, it's only been 4 years...why stop blaming the other guy now? The bare minimum expected of a senate? You mean like passing a budget? Cause the Dems refuse to do that...God forbid they be held accountable for it.

[Waser Lave]

It's pretty difficult to choose a date to measure from because when the last US election took place the economy was still in free-fall, it hadn't actually reached the trough yet. You'd have to give a certain period of time for policies to take hold and have an influence on the economy, no policy is going to turn around the economy overnight (unfortunately). Personally, I'd probably put the marker at a year after election so that there's been enough time to see the effect of new policies and you can make a clearer distinction between the two governments.

[Cript]

It's pretty difficult to choose a date to measure from because when the last US election took place the economy was still in free-fall, it hadn't actually reached the trough yet. You'd have to give a certain period of time for policies to take hold and have an influence on the economy, no policy is going to turn around the economy overnight (unfortunately). Personally, I'd probably put the marker at a year after election so that there's been enough time to see the effect of new policies and you can make a clearer distinction between the two governments.

He made promises to cut the deficit in half and that unemployment would NEVER go above 8% if the stimulus was passed. No one forced him to make those promises so why would you give him a pass?

And just looking at the last 3 years, we've added $5T to nat'l debt with no plan whatsoever to reduce spending. That doesn't scare you? Food stamp enrollment continues to go up...if we're in a recovery, why the hell would that happen?

Perfect example:

[Waser Lave]

He made promises to cut the deficit in half and that unemployment would NEVER go above 8% if the stimulus was passed. No one forced him to make those promises so why would you give him a pass?

He should have known better than to make promises like that in the midst of the worst recession since the 1930s but all politicians are full of bluster like that before they manage to get elected and see for themselves how bad things really are. I'd imagine it's no different to our politicians in the UK, most of them are multi-millionaires who are completely out of touch with reality and working people so until fundamental changes there we're going to end up with the same thing happening every time.

[Cript]

He should have known better than to make promises like that in the midst of the worst recession since the 1930s but all politicians are full of bluster like that before they manage to get elected and see for themselves how bad things really are.

That's a bullshit excuse and you know it. He got elected because of those promises and because people BELIEVED in hope and change. He has done nothing whatsoever to earn re-election. He hasn't offered a single good plan to reduce spending or create jobs. There's no chance in hell that I'll see a dime of Social Security or Medicare when I retire but Dems absolutely refuse to put forth any plans to make the programs sustainable because then they'd have to be attacked for their plans too. It's disgusting.

With the Ryan plan, my health care will be thrown to the wolves, I'll be retired shortly, my health is failing, I fully expect after a lifetime of military and private work experience that will mean nothing at all to the individual insurance market run by multinational companies.

The U.S. pays a higher percentage and amount on Health Care more than any other nation on the planet. You think you have good health care? Really, how often have you actually had to use your health care, any pre-existing conditions? I did some work for the insurance industry in my day, I know exactly how they remove from their risk pool anyone with a high utilization history (aka, has been sick). I also now that one of the best ways for a private company to maintain their risk rating, is not to hire an employee with anyone that was a high utilization patient. You have a sick child that needs ongoing care, ooops, sorry, you're being let go in a reorganization.

Highest cost, least coverage, twenty third on outcomes. RNC.

Tell me about Ryan's health plan? Give me concrete examples of how your healthcare would be thrown to the wolves...

And I use my healthcare every 2 weeks, thanks.

And a private company cannot legally bypass anyone with a high risk rating. I worked next to a guy who cost our company 1M+/yr for 4 years until he died. No one tried letting him go.

I can call anytime I want and meet with a specialist within a week. You get that in Europe?

[Waser Lave]

That's a bullshit excuse and you know it. He got elected because of those promises and because people BELIEVED in hope and change. He has done nothing whatsoever to earn re-election. He hasn't offered a single good plan to reduce spending or create jobs. There's no chance in hell that I'll see a dime of Social Security or Medicare when I retire but Dems absolutely refuse to put forth any plans to make the programs sustainable because then they'd have to be attacked for their plans too. It's disgusting.

It wasn't an excuse, it's a fact that all politicians talk utter bollocks to get themselves elected. As a largely unbiased outsider (I couldn't vote for either of them anyway) looking at the numbers there have actually been improvements since 2009. The GDP growth rate returned to pre-recession levels, the unemployment rate has stabilised and is falling (albeit relatively slowly compared with the rate at which it rose), exports have risen to a level significantly higher than pre-recession, industrial production is back at levels they haven't been since the early 2000s, the inflation rate is actually pretty stable at around 2% or so and initial jobless claims have almost halved since 2009. So to be fair it's not all bad news (particularly when you compare that with what's happening in Europe at the same time).

[Cript]

It wasn't an excuse, it's a fact that all politicians talk utter bollocks to get themselves elected. As a largely unbiased outsider (I couldn't vote for either of them anyway) looking at the numbers there have actually been improvements since 2009. The GDP growth rate returned to pre-recession levels, the unemployment rate has stabilised and is falling (albeit relatively slowly compared with the rate at which it rose), exports have risen to a level significantly higher than pre-recession, industrial production is back at levels they haven't been since the early 2000s, the inflation rate is actually pretty stable at around 2% or so and initial jobless claims have almost halved since 2009. So to be fair it's not all bad news (particularly when you compare that with what's happening in Europe at the same time).

Jobless claims have dropped because people don't need to look for jobs anymore. We stop counting them when they quit looking for work. Shit, if you could make $20-30K a year w/o working, why not take a year off?

[Waser Lave]

Jobless claims have dropped because people don't need to look for jobs anymore. We stop counting them when they quit looking for work. Shit, if you could make $20-30K a year w/o working, why not take a year off?

What about the other ones?

In the UK, since we got a Conservative government in the summer of 2010 our economy has gone backwards because they were determined to follow a policy of swingeing cuts to public spending. As a result business and consumer confidence plummeted, unemployment has continued to rise, local government has had to cut their budgets significantly leading to having to reduce spending in things like social care etc. The result? The government deficit has actually risen because the private sector has stopped investing, house builders have stopped building new houses because people won't or can't afford mortgages to buy new houses and jobs are struggling to be created. Hopefully whoever wins the election will learn from the mistakes made in other countries.

[luvsmyncis]

Shut up, Waser. No one wants to listen to your clear head and level thinking.

Majority of Obama voters vote on the basis of 2 things:
Is he'd still black? Ok he gets my vote.
Will I still get my welfare check? Yes? Ok he gets my vote.

Majority of Republican votes are on the basis of 2 things:
Is Obama still black? Fuck that nigger.
Do I still have to pay taxes that go to the old, sick, non-white, and poor? Yes? Fuck that nigger.
So ignorance goes both fucking ways, sweetheart.

It doesn't matter who is president, because every single American is a selfish, entitled, ungenerous piece of shit who likes to talk big about improvements, but lacking the balls and self-sacrifice to actually make a difference. I hope you suffer.

[Cript]

Punkrockbigmouth: Simple way to refute your argument - 97% of African Americans vote for the guy who's the same color as them. 50% of whites do. Who's racist?

Allen West, Herman Cain, Nikki Haley, Marco Rubio...I could go on and on but thanks for being the tool who had to play the race card.

[luvsmyncis]

Also, it isn't ignorance to want the taxes we are forced to pay to not go towards enabling people to sit on their arses and pick up a check.

Your taxes also go to education and probably a ton of other things. There will always be people mishandling money that they didn't earn. Just because there are a few people who take advantage of wellfare, doesn't mean everyone does. It is ignorant to think everyone who is on Medicaid and Medicare are just fat lazy fucks who sit around living the fucking good live on that fixed income of theirs. Certainly, some of them are. But for the most part these are disabled people who CANNOT work because they are physically unable to.

I personally feel they should be put to death, but... *shrug*

As for the people popping out babies, would you have those children starve just because their parents are idiots? Then fuck, abortions should be free an available on every corner to prevent this shit from happening.

There is no one who has the smarts to make a difference. So you have to choose the lesser evil.

Punkrockbigmouth: Simple way to refute your argument - 97% of African Americans vote for the guy who's the same color as them. 50% of whites do. Who's racist?
Allen West, Herman Cain, Nikki Haley, Marco Rubio...I could go on and on but thanks for being the tool who had to play the race card.

I'm pretty sure that up until Obama was elected, 100% of whites voted for a president the same color as them.
I didn't play the race card, that was Kiwi. Arguing that people will vote for him just because he's black can go both ways. There are people who will never vote for him because he's black. Nice to see you have to resort to name calling. I really doubt this is what Cody had in mind for his topic.

Oh man, I'd vote for Herman Cain in a heartbeat. That guy knows his shit

LMAO... I am praying this is a joke. Please, be joking.

[Cript]

Your taxes also go to education and probably a ton of other things. There will always be people mishandling money that they didn't earn. Just because there are a few people who take advantage of wellfare, doesn't mean everyone does. It is ignorant to think everyone who is on Medicaid and Medicare are just fat lazy fucks who sit around living the fucking good live on that fixed income of theirs. Certainly, some of them are. But for the most part these are disabled people who CANNOT work because they are physically unable to.

I personally feel they should be put to death, but... *shrug*

As for the people popping out babies, would you have those children starve just because their parents are idiots? Then fuck, abortions should be free an available on every corner to prevent this shit from happening.

There is no one who has the smarts to make a difference. So you have to choose the lesser evil.



I'm pretty sure that up until Obama was elected, 100% of whites voted for a president the same color as them.
I didn't play the race card, that was Kiwi. Arguing that people will vote for him just because he's black can go both ways. There are people who will never vote for him because he's black. Nice to see you have to resort to name calling. I really doubt this is what Cody had in mind for his topic.


LMAO... I am praying this is a joke. Please, be joking.

Rather be called a tool than racist any day. I refuted your logic plain and simple. 2008 was an opportunity for people to vote for men of different races. 97% of African Americans voted "their guy" while only 50% of whites did. You're wrong.

[Waser Lave]

Punkrockbigmouth: Simple way to refute your argument - 97% of African Americans vote for the guy who's the same color as them. 50% of whites do. Who's racist?

I'd imagine race isn't the only factor in that. For example, what proportion of the black populace would actually benefit from Republican policies?

http://www.factcheck...mocratic-party/



It wasn't only 2008 that the black populace voted for the Democrats by an overwhelming majority. 2008 was a bit of a quirk because it was the first time a black candidate had a real chance of becoming President but it's pretty obvious that black voters have favoured the Democrats by a large percentage for over 70 years.

[Cript]

It's so awesome when people attack other people for not agreeing with them.
Kick...ass... SO kickass.

Hey look, it's someone who added nothing whatsoever to the topic. Yay!

I'd imagine race isn't the only factor in that. For example, what proportion of the black populace would actually benefit from Republican policies?

http://www.factcheck...mocratic-party/



It wasn't only 2008 that the black populace voted for the Democrats by an overwhelming majority.

I'm trying to find the point on your graph where it becomes 97% before 2008.

[Waser Lave]

I'm trying to find the point on your graph where it becomes 97% before 2008.

Lyndon B. Johnson got 94% of the black vote in 1964, is that close enough to 97% for you?



He wasn't even particularly tanned.

(I'm going to guess that the black vote will be lower than 97% in the coming election)