67 replies to this topic

[Cript]

Lyndon B. Johnson got 94% of the black vote in 1964, is that close enough to 97% for you?



He wasn't even particularly tanned.

(I'm going to guess that the black vote will be lower than 97% in the coming election)

I don't think it'll drop under 95%...That said, not sure why any African American would vote for Obama. He certainly hasn't done anything to help them.

And don't get me started on LBJ.

Cliff Notes for Gorix's post: I get my talking points from liberal news sources but claim I'm not a liberal. Republicans are racist and religious.

Gorix: Plenty of citations from my dear Milwaukee-area.

http://www.jsonline....s/38283494.html

[luvsmyncis]

Oh wait, first you basically accuse me of being racist and ignorant. Then it backfires on you because I say I'd vote for Herman Cain.
You insinuate that I'm ignorant, yet I'm not the one attacking you personally for having a different opinion. Isn't that in itself... well...ignorant?
Ok, I'm done playing with you. If I carry on I'm liable to be in for another warn rather quickly.
I can't fathom what you're so butthurt about that you feel the urge to be so hateful towards me, I have my opinion, you have yours. Lets leave it at that.
Have a good day.

I don't believe I've attacked anyone PERSONALLY. If your feelings were hurt, or I made you feel stupid or racist, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to be reasonable. It's very hard to be reasonable in political topics, since it seems so many people are wildly passionate about their own views.

I just think Herman Cain is too funny.

Seriously, why not actually read what someone posts instead of just jumping to conclusions and making claims that don't stick in the least.

And stop taking it so personally.

[Waser Lave]

I don't think it'll drop under 95%...That said, not sure why any African American would vote for Obama. He certainly hasn't done anything to help them.

And don't get me started on LBJ.

It's pretty clear that the majority of black people who vote make their choice on the candidate or party who they feel will most benefit their own lives, we've seen that throughout the years as votes have increased following significant events. For example, prior to Lyndon B. Johnson getting 94% of the black vote he'd passed the bill to outlaw segregation while his opponent had opposed the bill. In earlier elections the majority of black voters actually supported the Republican party candidates because the Democrats tended to support segregation in those days while you had Republicans like Lincoln passing laws which gave advantages (not actually advantages but just going some way to level the field) to black people. I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that race was the only factor in 97% of black voters choosing Obama when the facts say otherwise.

not sure why any African American would vote for Obama. He certainly hasn't done anything to help them.

Would Romney be any more likely to introduce policies to help them? Between Obama and Romney it's pretty apparent that Obama (as a Democrat) would be more likely to introduce policies which would benefit the vast majority of black voters (as well as the working classes).

[Nymh]

Calm down, kids.

Also, since this is no longer about the DNC and is instead a political debate, here are my completely ignorant two cents:

I'm sorry this post keeps getting longer but I'm simply flabbergasted, especially with you younger folks. You're trying to re-elect someone whose presidency has resulted in fewer people being employed, and Food Stamp enrollment DOUBLING. Let's not forget the highest youth unemployment in history. Those food stamps might be free for those enrolled but if you ever somehow find a job someday, you get to pay for them.

I honestly can't imagine anyone else's presidency having resulted in anything different in the last 4 years. Well, no, let me take that back. If a republican were in office, we probably wouldn't have done the second round of funding, and our taxes would have been cut. Higher unemployment as the chain-of-effect of all the banks and automobile manufacturers went out of business, then all of their suppliers and subsidiary companies went out of business, then all of the fringe companies that support their products went out of business...

It would have been like quicksand.

He made promises to cut the deficit in half and that unemployment would NEVER go above 8% if the stimulus was passed. No one forced him to make those promises so why would you give him a pass?

And just looking at the last 3 years, we've added $5T to nat'l debt with no plan whatsoever to reduce spending. That doesn't scare you? Food stamp enrollment continues to go up...if we're in a recovery, why the hell would that happen?

Everyone makes promises. People act like he is doing this shit on purpose. Do you think any president just spouts blatant lies to the entire country to get elected, all the while thinking "whee now I can fuck this place up GANGNAM STYLE!"

Spot on, Cript.

Majority of Obama voters vote on the basis of 2 things:
Is he'd still black? Ok he gets my vote.
Will I still get my welfare check? Yes? Ok he gets my vote.

The most pathetic, pa-the-tic, thing I've waver heard was Obamas strategy in his 2008 presidential race, he sent out buses to the projects/ghettos so all the hood rats and their baby-daddies could go vote for him. Rides for Obama I think it was called. Fucking rediculous.

Oh you forgot to mention that Obama took millions out of Medicare, which is failing as it is, to pay for his Obamacare. He left them with nothing more than and IOU in the knowledge it would never need to be paid back.

I'm not in favor of Romney any more than I am Obama, but I can't stand the bleeding heart mentality that enables trashy people to sit on their asses and pick up a check that leaches off people like my husband of whom works his ass off to earn.

I'd prefer a seasoned businessman over a story-telling lawyer any day.

Insinuating that the majority of Obama voters are on government handouts is kind of silly. I don't care if he's black, and I personally don't agree with paying for other people's welfare checks, though I have taken government assistance before when I needed it. If your husband had lived in Tennessee he would have helped pay for both of my children to be born. He would have helped to feed them and my family for about a year. Do I feel guilty for having taken this government assistance? No. I was poor, it was available to me, and I didn't abuse it. The problem isn't welfare/Medicare/Medicaid/WIC itself, it's that the system is too outdated, the application process is too easy, and the staff are stretched too thin.

Now on to my thoughts ~*~*~*~

Cutting taxes will make it harder for people like me and anyone who isn't rich to attend university. We should not have to go into debt for the rest of our lives to get an education, but if taxes are cut, that will be exactly what people who don't have an extra $50-100k sitting around will have to do. Our schools will continue to be behind on technology. Children will have to crowd in groups of 6 or 8 around microscopes because their school can only afford to buy 5. Computer labs with only 10-15 computers will have to be scheduled months in advance, and classes will have to be split in half to even use them. Discolored ceiling tiles, walls that are chipping and flaking, marching bands that haven't had new instruments or uniforms in 15 years... If any candidate talks about cutting taxes, he's probably not getting my vote. Our taxes are already low enough. Since independents rarely get even 10% of the popular vote, and until someone can release a good plan for tax overhaul and gets rid of all the fucking lobbying and bill stuffing in Washington, I will probably continue voting Democrat until I move out of the country for this reason alone.

[Cript]

When someone makes claims about me that aren't true, especially when I posted things stating such previously, it annoys me.

It's the exact reason the GOP is failing. Because people are so hard-cased in their ideological beliefs and have to sink to trying to belittle other people to make their points seem valid.

It's pathetic. Simple as that.

"Oh, I didn't read a single thing you posted, but I'm going to call you a liberal and make claims that a website you linked to (and even claimed was biased) are where you got your talking points from, even though none of them are listed on that website. THEN I'm going to claim you called Republicans racist, even though you never mentioned race once"

Fact is, politics directly affects me, especially considering that the GOP THRIVES off the platform of spreading vile ignorance about LGBT Americans and making the claim that we want to destroy America, destroy "families", yadda yadda yadda.
So, I'm sorry if I am passionate about issues that directly affect my personal life. Especially since I live in the South and can't get out.

We're failing? My Gov got re-elected this summer by a larger amount than in 2010, the biggest GOP landslide in recent memory. We have a very good chance to keep the house, take the senate, and the presidency. More people self-identify as GOP than in a long long time while fewer identify as Dems. About 9% fewer people consider themselves Dems than in Nov 2008.

http://www.rasmussen...partisan_trends

[Frizzle]

Wait, are people still considering Romney an alternative? The guy who believes in magic pants? Americans still wonder why they are portrayed as unintelligent and wonder why.

[Cript]

Wait, are people still considering Romney an alternative? The guy who believes in magic pants? Americans still wonder why they are portrayed as unintelligent and wonder why.

Us dumb idiots never invent anything. LAND ON MARS SON.

[Waser Lave]

LAND ON MARS SON.

We don't tend to waste money on that kind of thing, the last time we tried to send something to Mars about 8 years ago we had a team of 4 people and a budget of about £40 million. xD

[luvsmyncis]

Again, there are steadfast reasons why I view things the way they I do. I'm sure there are steadfast reasons others here feel the way they do.

And I understand where you're coming from. I work in a drug store and see people abuse controlled substances that the state pays for. I see people come in, complain about a $3 co-pay on a $500 medication for asthma, complaining about their fixed income, but will turn around and gladly pay $60 for a carton of cigarettes. Trust me, I've seen the bad shit, too. People really do take advantage of the things they are given, and it's hard not to resent them because I'm busting my ass 40 hours a week and have only stress and anxiety to show for it. Certainly your husband is working his tail off, just to have money, hard earned money, taken from his paycheck to support people who might abuse the system. It's so easy to hate the 'lazy' masses.

But Nymh's is a shining example of someone who used the extra help to get back on her feet. That is what the Medicaid should be for. It's people like her that I consider when I look at my paycheck and see how much has been taken out. It sucks that there are Americans who will use this as a free ride, stay on state assistance for years, and never become contributing members of society. But when I was a child, my single mother was able to feed us because that assistance was accessible to her. It is a good thing to have this wellfare available to people who need it.

You have to comb through a lot of trash to find some decency, but it's still there. Buried under all the shit.

I agree there certainly should be some reform. (Finally something we can see eye to eye on!) New time limits, and whatnot. There are several things in place, for instance, some patients are limited to only 3 free prescriptions a month. I think there should be copays for Medicaid, to teach these patients that nothing is free. They lose their medication left and right because they don't place any value in it. The state assistance should just pick it up, they always think. I don't think that is right. Especially considering the actual costs of these medications that are covered.

[iargue]

We don't tend to waste money on that kind of thing, the last time we tried to send something to Mars about 8 years ago we had a team of 4 people and a budget of about £40 million. xD

I consider millions of others things more of a waste of spending then going into space.

Not only has exploration into space netted us over 50,000 inventions, but it also helps to ensure that we will not be eliminated by a single source in the future. As soon as we spread to another planet, over half of the worlds biggest issues stop becoming as serious of a threat.

Nuclear War? Have a second planet
Famine? Twice as much farm space
Disease? Have a second planet
Global Warming? Have a second planet.



This entire topic makes me cry because people sit here and fight over why one terrible choice is better then another terrible choice. It just reminds me of why a two party system is terribly sad.

[Mishelle]

Rather be called a tool than racist any day. I refuted your logic plain and simple. 2008 was an opportunity for people to vote for men of different races. 97% of African Americans voted "their guy" while only 50% of whites did. You're wrong.

Most Blacks vote for Democrats, period so idk what you're getting at. And I'd say the healthcare bill definitely helped Black people considering a large percentage of them lack health insurance and die from preventable diseases at an alarming rate.

Edited by Mishelle, 05 September 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[Waser Lave]

I consider millions of others things more of a waste of spending then going into space.

Not only has exploration into space netted us over 50,000 inventions, but it also helps to ensure that we will not be eliminated by a single source in the future. As soon as we spread to another planet, over half of the worlds biggest issues stop becoming as serious of a threat.

Nuclear War? Have a second planet
Famine? Twice as much farm space
Disease? Have a second planet
Global Warming? Have a second planet.

We already know your opinion on investment in space. At a time when we have thousands of pensioners dying each year because they can't afford to turn their gas heating on we simply can't afford to spend billions on developing a space agency.

[Cript]

Most Blacks vote for Democrats, period so idk what you're getting at. And I'd say the healthcare bill definitely helped Black people considering a large percentage of them lack health insurance and die from preventable diseases at an alarming rate.

Outside LBJ, I've never seen a white candidate get over 90% of African American vote.

[Waser Lave]

Outside LBJ, I've never seen a white candidate get over 90% of African American vote.

Mondale got 91% in 1984 against Reagan and Gore got 90% in 2000 apparently.

[Bone]

Obvious racist is obvious

...back on topic, I was trying to listen to Michelle Obama's speech yesterday but I was too entranced by her arms.

[Mishelle]

Outside LBJ, I've never seen a white candidate get over 90% of African American vote.

The 2008 elections brought about an increase in minoritiy voters and young voters. Both groups tend to vote democrat

[Frizzle]

The 2008 elections brought about an increase in minoritiy voters and young voters. Both groups tend to vote democrat

Poor people stick together, just like the rich.

[Mishelle]

Plus I don't remember McCain really campaigning for the Black vote. Romney isn't either, he's trying to go for the Latino vote and failing miserably. Romney definitely isn't pulling at the heartstrings of poor students with his "we had to sell our stocks and eat pasta to get through college" sob story. All politicians are going to make promises they can't keep. But at the same time I find it really hard to trust the GOP because the GOP in Congress voted against things they were originally for just to make Obama look bad. McConnel even admitted their number one priority was to make Obama a one term president. They voted against tax cuts, played chicken with the debt ceiling and passed way the House more anti-choice bills than realistically implementable jobs bills. Romney doesn't want to cut defense spending which receives billions but instead wants to cut programs that only get millions; that's chump change.

Back on topic, I definitely enjoyed the DNC more than the RNC. There was more positivity, enthusiasm, inclusivity, and I also enjoyed the lack of 80 yr olds on stage talking to chairs. And I felt like Kal Penn was speaking directly to md in his speech cuz I totally wasn't wearing pants.

[WharfRat]

Okay guys... so I didn't actually expect this to turn into some brawl over politics but rather over the general energy of the DNC and particularly to the speech that I linked to by San Antonio Mayor, Julian Castro. I'm not going to respond to everyone as a lot of it is just general party line bickering, but there were a few items I thought there may be a need to have addressed.

Spot on, Cript.

Majority of Obama voters vote on the basis of 2 things:
Is he'd still black? Ok he gets my vote.
Will I still get my welfare check? Yes? Ok he gets my vote.

Okay... So you're saying that the majority of the people who voted for Obama did so because either they are A) black or B) on welfare. I think that's a pretty bold claim that honestly reeks a bit of bigotry. Let's bring in the facts. Obama won 69,456,897 votes (52.9%) in 2008 vs John McCain's 59,934,814 votes. (45.7%). Obama won with more votes than any president in history has won with... Mind you, this is only counting the Americans who ACTUALLY voted.... 131 million people voted (about 61% of the population that has the right to vote.) [EDIT: I actually did 3 pages of math and statistics to prove my point here but it's getting convoluted so I'll simplify it...] Considering that turnout rate is lowest amongst minorities and those impoverished, clearly this is statistically inaccurate. You are truly coming off as a bigot when you make claims like the majority of voters vote only based upon if they get something for free or the color of the persons skin....

The most pathetic, pa-the-tic, thing I've waver heard was Obamas strategy in his 2008 presidential race, he sent out buses to the projects/ghettos so all the hood rats and their baby-daddies could go vote for him. Rides for Obama I think it was called. Fucking rediculous.

Okay... further offensive racially motivated remarks aside, this isn't something that is new to Obama... There have been activist groups who rally to "Get Out the Vote!" by providing a means of transportation for those that may otherwise be disenfranchised through poverty. This is not a single party issue... Both parties have been dong this, legally, for years. There are strict guidelines that guide what campaigns can and cannot due in order to sway voters or to encourage voters at the last minute... The Supreme Court has heard cases regarding these issues and they have been found constitutional!

Oh you forgot to mention that Obama took millions out of Medicare, which is failing as it is, to pay for his Obamacare. He left them with nothing more than and IOU in the knowledge it would never need to be paid back.

Umm... Obama actually found a way to save money in the system and now even more people are covered by Medicare than before he took office along with the millions of people my age (19-26) who can now be covered under their parents healthcare plan. [Yes, they do offer healthcare at my job. They want 25% of my salary to give me basic coverage... It's ridiculous and I'm very lucky that I can continue to have healthcare at an affordable rate now. ]

I'm not in favor of Romney any more than I am Obama, but I can't stand the bleeding heart mentality that enables trashy people to sit on their asses and pick up a check that leaches off people like my husband of whom works his ass off to earn.

I'd prefer a seasoned businessman over a story-telling lawyer any day.

I just had to quote this portion for the irony... (not calling you trashy... I try not to disparage people when at all possible...) I just think it seems ironic that you can't stand that people "sit on their asses" and "leaches" off of other people like your husband... Just out of curiosity, do you work for a living? Or are you one of those people who "leaches" off of your poor, over-worked husband?

Long point to all of this? I think it was filled with prejudicial rhetoric that is most definitely false....

I'll handle a few of the other out of line posts that I saw later... More on topic.... I thought Julian Castro actually gave a better speech than Clinton did tonight! Anyone agree?

P.s. (A.K.A. "Later")

Everyone has their reasons for the way they will vote. The older generations are from the brass balls stock - people who know what hard graft is. Younger generations have been handled with mittens and expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter. It's a matter of how you were raised, when you were raised, and your own interactions.

Spoiler

My personal prejudice towards certain classes of people stems from living in the Metro Atlanta area for the first part of my stay in this country. While there all I encountered were trashy people, in trashy cars with rims that cost more than the car itself! I worked at an apartment complex my husbands family ran, the types of people I dealt with on a day by day basis made my blood boil. I had to deal with people who came in expecting us to lower their rent if they recommended the place to a friend and their friend was a successful applicant! The company had to deal with telling people every day that they didn't deal with Section 8, only to be met with abuse and threats of violence.
A good applicant would move in her drug dealing boyfriend, his pittbulls and then stop paying their rent. It would take 3 months to get these people evicted. Eventually the company went under, we (as in my husband, my in-laws, and I) lost our homes because of the types of people wanting everything and not willing to pay for a damned thing. We were also broken into while my husband was in one of the offices working there one morning, we lost everything we owned. The damned officer in charge of our case didn't return our calls, wasn't helpful, didn't care and worst of all tried accusing my husband of insurance fraud! (Which backfired on him because I'm a stickler for keeping receipts for anything over $100!)
That apartment complex is now ran by fanny-Mae, the people they put in to run it while it goes through foreclosure turned it into section 8 housing. I read everyday about drive-by shootings happening, recently one of their leasing agents was dragged into an apartment and raped repeatedly, a cop was killed on the premises. This is happening every, single, damned day and people can't fathom why people like me, who never had a problem with anyone previously, cannot stand to vote for an enabler like Obama.

I do agree with Nymh, the entire system needs a reform, living in the here and now and utilizing laws that were set in place decades ago isn't constructive.
I agree with the introduction of drug testing welfare applicants, after all if I need to take one in order to keep my job why shouldn't they be required to take one in order to get assistance? I believe that it should be repeated every 8 weeks to those in receipt of benefits. Passing a pee test once shouldn't entitle you to a further 26 weeks of taxpayers money, abusers will just go spend that money on drugs.
I've been stopped in the grocery store many times by people trying to sell their EBT cards for cash, so they can go buy liquor/drugs/etc.

Again, there are steadfast reasons why I view things the way they I do. I'm sure there are steadfast reasons others here feel the way they do.

There have been several studies conducted regarding the efficiency of mandatory drug screenings for unemployment/welfare benefits and they have all came out to conclude that the cost is much greater than any potential savings. Drug screenings are fairly expensive... most drugs are completely out of your system after 2-3 days and there has to be a certain level of planning/coordinating to ensure drug tests are taken on time. Most people would just stop taking drugs 2-3 days before their scheduled test. (Obviously this doesn't include marijuana users.) The other problem with this approach is that it will end up hurting the children of mothers who may use drugs.

Regarding the EBT Cards/Food stamps I think this would be a little easier to manage... Make people show ID when they make their grocery purchases with their food stamps.

I have worked in grocery stores before and I promise I know how it feels to be making minimum wage and to not have any government assistance yet see people come in and use food stamps to buy steaks and lobsters... It's rather infuriating.... The only government assistance "welfare" program that I ever received was a grant to go to university for last year.... I no longer qualify at this time but that year of school would not have happened without the government assistance. Are there people who are abusing the system? Absolutely... But some people just believe that helping others is the right thing to do... That we can work out how to be more efficient with it as time comes along but we can't penalize those in need.

That's actually what I wanted this topic to be about... The 13 minute speech (that I don't know how many of you watched) given by Julian Castro. The speech was all about investing in American Prosperity through an investment in American businesses and in the American people through education. We are really lacking in our educational system and are falling through the global ranks. Wealth and strong military power only takes you so far over so long... Let's get back to the basics and ensure that our children/grandchildren can grow up in an America that still has jobs and still values things like innovation and invention... Science and Math and Art! Where people can follow their dreams and be productive members of society....

Anyways, I've rambled enough tonight... Perhaps another night!
Cheers!
Cody

[Mishelle]

I agree that Castro's speech was better than Clinton but I think the speakers like Castro and Duval were there to get people more pumped and the main goal of todays speeches were to focus on policy. Im happy that they're finally informing people about the affordable care act and what it does because there are still people who don't know.

[WharfRat]

I agree that Castro's speech was better than Clinton but I think the speakers like Castro and Duval were there to get people more pumped and the main goal of todays speeches were to focus on policy. Im happy that they're finally informing people about the affordable care act and what it does because there are still people who don't know.

Yeah.... I know that was the point and they each had their own role to fulfill... but I really loved that someone was finally talking about the issues with vigor and honest enthusiasm for what he believes is right -- not for him, but for the people of the USA.