27 replies to this topic

[sonic]

Are you able to respect someone for making a sacrifice for something THEY believe is right? Even if you don't agree?

[Chew]

Are you able to respect someone for making a sacrafice sacrifice for something THEY believe is right? Even if you don't agree?

In the context you first posted this I would agree with you at first glance.
http://www.neocodex....mp;#entry909632
But after thinking about it, I do not think I can agree with everyone who makes a sacrifice for something just because they believe in it. Would you say that you respect the suicide bombers who take innocent lives just because THEY believe in the wrong ideals and religion. Would you respect the person who blows up a federal building taking the lives of many people just because HE believes the government is wrong and doesn't follow his ideals? Respecting someone because they believe they are making a sacrifice for the upholding of the beliefs of our country is one thing. Extending this to everyone under the sun is not acceptable in my eyes. But its just my opinion, and we all have our own.

Edited by mastachew, 12 July 2007 - 07:51 PM.

[Hlaw]

yeah defintely. a suicide bomber believes hes on the path to glory but we all know thats wrong, so we cant respect that. I believe respect is a matter of your own opinion then

[Nick]

A Christian Fundamentalist kills an OB/GYN who preforms abortions to rape victims, condemning himself to life in prison or the death penalty and thereby making the ultimate sacrifice in his mind. I cannot respect someone like that. So the answer is no, I am not able to.

[sonic]

A Christian Fundamentalist kills an OB/GYN who preforms abortions to rape victims, condemning himself to life in prison or the death penalty and thereby making the ultimate sacrifice in his mind. I cannot respect someone like that. So the answer is no, I am not able to.

is there anything in the world you would be willing to die for? Honestly? That takes dedication no matter what it is. And someone with that much dedication deserves respect. Good or bad is your choice to interpret.

[Hlaw]

the only thing in the world i would die for is family, nothing else

[Rikku]

No probably not.. If someone elses sacrifice makes no sence to me then i can't respect it... the suecide bombers think that kiling thousands of innocent people is the way to go and some people respect that.. but i just can't seem to, just because it's people like us that are being killed. Also the troops aren't dieing for thier country they are being slautered!! and now the government wants to pull the funding? whut is that going to do other then only make it harder for the people over there to fight? as if it isn't hard enough already.

NOBODY wants to just die for their country, just because people are willing to defend our freedoms dosn't mean they will just had over thier life, mybe they are WILLING to die for their county, but no one wants to die for their country. When you say that it makes us look bad like were some kind of terrorists or something... the suecide bombers WANTED to die for their religion...

Edited by Rikku, 12 July 2007 - 10:26 PM.

[Mckilla]

If it is at the expense of other lives no.

I fail to see exactly how the american troops are "dieing for their country" when their country wasn't and hasn't been invaded and thus needing to be defended thus dieing for their country.
You got attacked a couple times and a few thousand people died. How exactly is that worth sending people to die or end up amputees, or scarred for life. Seems ironic really. It clearly makes things worse. First some people died then you send people to die. Clever. Really clever.

'We got attacked, poor us, now we will send out more people to die with the facade(sp?) of trying to prevent being attacked again.' Yeah, that makes sense

Use the line "die for their country" again, expect to be laughed at.

Those people die for their country cause their brave.They actually stand for something n they are some of the people who will voluntary fight to make a difference. You can live your life fearing death either way there is a day thats due for u.Fighting is in human nature always happened always will happen. Im not advocating this cause id personally never die for this country but thats just from my perspective as growing up as a black male.

[Hlaw]

yeah ironic it is defnitely. 3000 deaths in 2001 doesnt make up for the 70000 american soldier deaths not to mention countless times more iraqi civilians + soldier deaths.

[Frizzle]

People don't die because they're brave, people die because they're stupid enough to go to another country that their country is warring with, then dumb enough to get shot or blown up, then they have nothing to fight for.

Just because it's human nature doesn't mean the methods that worked thousands of years ago are still what we should be using now.
In other words, just because war was an effective tool for getting what you want back a few thousand years, doesn't mean there aren't far better and more peaceful methods that should be being used now.

Honestly, there's no reason for wars. The solve nothing, increase hatred on either side, cost billions that could be spent on things like... I dunno helping people get basic medical attention, basic education, and the little insignificant things like that

Sorry, but I find that really offensive. My Great-Grand Father died in the second world war, not fighting a war without a reason, but he was conscripted in and had to fight, but he was proud to do it because of the Nazi Regime, he was a brave man, but I guess in your eyes he was "stupid" enough to be shot.

[Hlaw]

actually, without war there would be pretty much no technology.

[Frizzle]

actually, without war there would be pretty much no technology.

I think Einstien would disagree.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

[DudeOnline]

I can respect the troops that are deployed right now. What I cant respect, are the people who put them out there in the first place.

think about it this way, what If you saw the Army Reserve banner hanging above a recruitment office, $20,000 sign on bonus, free tuition, ect. sounds like a good deal right?you sign up, hey you dont have to go that often, plus, you get free tuition, you make plans to go to college, you study for 3 months at the local university, and BAM you get a call. youre getting deployed.

Like i said, the soldiers i can respect, but the people who put them into the warzone, I can never forgive.

unlike some people, I can take critisizm, and I don't care if you dont agree with me, people have their own views, I just want to open peoples eyes to mine

[Magma]

I can respect people who sacrifice something they think is right, but only if I agree with it with an exception in a few cases. Respecting someone for something they did that you believe is something of opinion rather than fact. I really respect someone for doing something in which I wouldn't do or something that I won't do because I am not brave enough. In that respect, I do respect the troops for doing what they are doing, but I do not agree with some of the things that are happening in the middle-east.

[Chew]

unlike some people, I can take critisizm, and I don't care if you dont agree with me, people have their own views, I just want to open peoples eyes to mine

I could not agree more with you on this statement. All most of the people on here are doing is stating their own opinion to add to the topic. Never should anyone get so mad at someone else just for their opinions. I do not post in here because I want everyone to believe in that same things as I do. I post so I can share my view on things, and would expect most people to do the same thing. Why is it once someone posts something thats actually a good debate does it have to end up in a shit slinging contest. Maybe not so much on this topic but the other one from last night is the one I am referring to. I enjoy hearing peoples opinions on a wide range of topics, especially the ones from over seas, just to see how it compares to my own ideals.

[Christopher Robin]

Sorry, but I find that really offensive. My Great-Grand Father died in the second world war, not fighting a war without a reason, but he was conscripted in and had to fight, but he was proud to do it because of the Nazi Regime, he was a brave man, but I guess in your eyes he was "stupid" enough to be shot.

yeah ironic it is defnitely. 3000 deaths in 2001 doesnt make up for the 70000 american soldier deaths not to mention countless times more iraqi civilians + soldier deaths.

Um... 70 000 American Soldier deaths? Since when?? Because I'm pretty sure it wasn't 70 000 soldiers died ;o

[Chew]

Um... 70 000 American Soldier deaths? Since when?? Because I'm pretty sure it wasn't 70 000 soldiers died ;o

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 3609
Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 2
wounded is over 26,000

Iraqi Security Forces and Civilian Deaths
32000+

As per http://icasualties.org/oif/

Edited by mastachew, 13 July 2007 - 08:00 AM.

[redlion]

I hate this thread.

[Frizzle]

I hate this thread.

You should invade this thread claiming it has hidden WMD, get rid of it's dictator Sonic Huessin, bring back democracy on a low-based scale, whilst stealing this thread's oil and claim it's a war on terror.

Or you could just accept that some thread's are just not enjoyable as the over age sex thread.

[redlion]

You should invade this thread claiming it has hidden WMD, get rid of it's dictator Sonic Huessin, bring back democracy on a low-based scale, whilst stealing this thread's oil and claim it's a war on terror.

Or you could just accept that some thread's are just not enjoyable as the over age sex thread.

I hate this brit.

[Tetiel]

I do and I don't. I believe in the beginning this war was correct and that it could have been done properly by utilizing the Iraqi military into a police force rather than leaving them unemployed for the extremist groups to pick up but alas we did not consider this as I believe we were too arrogant after the unbelievably easy Persian Gulf War. Right now I don't believe we should pull out the troops because we barked up so bad and I think we need to fix the things we started instead of up and running home. Doing so would be the equivalent of what Russia did to Afghanistan (not a perfect comparison, mind you but I hope you get my point).

Now I would be damned if I didn't support and respect what the troops (not ONLY American) are doing. My coworker has a husband serving in Iraq and has an infant she is taking care of. He will not be off duty for a year. She sends him pictures of his progress and it is tearing him in two not being able to see his son in that year. Babies bond young :\ The only way she can track him without the occasional phone call every week or so is through their joint account and his debit card use. The other day she told me that he was safe in Kuwait now. I mean I put that in my own perspective and I cannot imagine with my own relationship with Gene sacrificing so much and I truly respect their strength to stay together. I respect his decision to try and fight to keep the peace because we so brutally screwed it up. It is hard to understand she said till you have been there and felt it yourself. I somewhat understand, but I could never truly understand just like I could never understand truly the hardships that the allies went through in WWII with the mothers losing their sons in a seemingly endless and gory war. But I will respect them.

However this does not mean I will respect all people in that situation. There are those in the heart of Africa who are fighting in what they believe in strongly by kidnapping and training young children to fight with guns and kill for their own purposes. There are those who believe that one tribe or race is better than the other or view them as a threat so they kill them. Perhaps it is hypocritical, but I do not care. Perhaps I can only respect those who I do not believe are committing horrible war crimes while others view them as doing such. I don't believe there are many humans who are not hypocritical in this way and believe who they relate to.

</end babeling>

[Frizzle]

Says the neo-nazi. Ironic much? Great respect you must have for him.

Firstly, there's a difference between a world war and a war between two countries, over what we all know is oil under the facade of finding WMDs and creating a democracy by killing a dictator. Great reason to be fighting Fighting against nazis, which is clear to those of us who're sane was entirely the right thing to do.
I can understand being the choice between fighting or being invaded and taken over. Self-defense is justifiable homicide. I respect the choice to fight for your country. I can't respect someone who will voluntarily fight so your government can get more oil. That's called stealing

Secondly, stupid enough to get shot wasn't well worded I agree. I meant more along the lines of, there's people who will get shot no matter how brave, no matter how great, no matter what circumstances, they will be killed. Then there's those who take stupid risks, throw caution out the window, and will be shot the first day they come close to an enemy who's armed. There's also the ones who fool around with guns and shoot themselves. Pride of a nation's army those are.

Lastly, once you start considering what others would be feeling about something you say, then I'll start caring if I offend you.

Yes I realise you won't bother to read this and deem it long and boring. Boo hoo.

Acutally I read that and it was not acutally a response to my question, you basically just went on about the Iraq war and bitching about how the Americans are "stealing" or some stupid liberal shit like that.

Btw Neo-nazi's are so last year, get with the program.

[Ives]

I'm an objectivist for the most part, but if somebody were to say, take his life to cure AIDS and save millions, that would be a time to respect. But if someone were to kill himself in the name of Allah, the US government, whatever, its not worth it.

[redlion]

I'm an objectivist for the most part, but if somebody were to say, take his life to cure AIDS and save millions, that would be a time to respect. But if someone were to kill himself in the name of Allah, the US government, whatever, its not worth it.

I weigh it much the same. Its hard for a rational person to accept that I'll be dying for 'democracy' or some other extremely large and ambiguous cause. Now, you put a picture of a child, or a family, or a town or whatever in my hand and tell me that these are the people I have to protect, and I'd have no problem with it. There is a distinct difference between preserving human life and advancing the goals of one set of humans over another. Offensive war for the former is completely acceptable. Offensive war for the second is not.

For instance, intervening in Darfur would (in my mind) fall under the first category, and I'd be for it. However, invading a nation simply because we don't like their government, knowing full well that thousands if not tens of thousands of people are going to die because of our actions is not acceptable.

[wordballoon]

Whether or not you agree with the war is you own choice. But what all of you need to understand is that these people die for us, regardless of whether or not that is the reason they signed up or not. Show people respect. On another note my father was in the Special Forces in the Marines, and he saw some nasty shit. You have to appreciate what these people go through before you make judgments. And for those of you thinking I'm a conservative, I can tell you I'm the farthest thing from it.

Edited by wordballoon, 28 July 2007 - 05:38 AM.