46 replies to this topic

[Grizzly]

OBAMA IS THE ONLY CANDIDATE IN THE PAST FEW DECADES TO ACTUALLY POSSESS LEADERSHIP, INTELLIGENCE, AND INTEGRITY TO QUALIFY AS A PRESIDENT.

MCCAIN WILL BE THE LESSER OF GREAT PRESIDENTS THAT AMERICA HAS SEEN UNTIL IT GOT RUINED BY BUSH AND WILL FOLLOW BUSH'S LEGACY OF FUCKING UP AMERICA.

MCCAIN WILL ONLY BE ELECTED BECAUSE OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION THAT
A) SECRETLY (OR NOT SO SECRETLY) HATES AFRICAN AMERICANS
B) IS TOO SCARED OF THE CHANGE OBAMA IS WILLING TO BRING
C) IS COMPLETELY IGNORANT AND BLINDED BY THE RIDICULOUS RUMORS THAT HE IS MUSLIM/GAY/RACIST

DEBATE!!!1111

[hungryhippo]

Completely false.

[Cory]

Completely false.

no

[hungryhippo]

Without getting into some kind of inmature back and forth, I think it's important that people recognize that there is a healthy population of republicans, like myself, who support McCain because he supports republican viewpoints on many of the issues. In fact, he's quite moderate on several points, particularly immigration, which of course comes from his tenure in Arizona. I think that he would be perfectly qualified for the job. I also think Obama is qualified, however, he does not support viewpoints which I personally agree with. I think it is also important to recognize that one president simply cannot change the entire direction of a country. The writers of the Constitution imagined a legislative nation, not one run by the executive. However, once you take a few poltiics classes in college, you'll see that because of our innate need to have a figurehead leader who we can look to, and blame, the country has shifted toward facoring the executive as "in charge" of the country. Of course, this subtle shift in the American mentality has not been followed by a change in the way the actually governing of the country works. The president has much less power than most people think he (or maybe someday she) does

[Reaper]

Personally, I am voting for McCain. Like hungryhippo said...I don't agree with a lot of Obamas viewpoints. I suppose I could list why that is, but I'm too lazy

[Grizzly]

Without getting into some kind of inmature back and forth, I think it's important that people recognize that there is a healthy population of republicans, like myself, who support McCain because he supports republican viewpoints on many of the issues. In fact, he's quite moderate on several points, particularly immigration, which of course comes from his tenure in Arizona. I think that he would be perfectly qualified for the job. I also think Obama is qualified, however, he does not support viewpoints which I personally agree with. I think it is also important to recognize that one president simply cannot change the entire direction of a country. The writers of the Constitution imagined a legislative nation, not one run by the executive. However, once you take a few poltiics classes in college, you'll see that because of our innate need to have a figurehead leader who we can look to, and blame, the country has shifted toward facoring the executive as "in charge" of the country. Of course, this subtle shift in the American mentality has not been followed by a change in the way the actually governing of the country works. The president has much less power than most people think he (or maybe someday she) does

Of course there is. But I doubt that the certain population of people that actually are voting for mccain because they support mccain is large enough to win, which really pisses me off. Although I disagree with his policies, it wouldn't bother me so much if Mccain were to win for the right reasons. And I'm especially flustered by all the Anti-Bush voters that are going to vote for Mccain when Mccain agrees with 90% of Bush policies..

And I completely disagree. The president most definitely has the power to create change. Bush certainly didn't utilize that power. But I feel like Obama has the ability to make that happen, though it certainly will be a challenge. And in this age when the economy is teetering on the border of a recession and there's a complete mess of a problem overseas, we really need a president to commit change to the U.S... not to sit back and watch while America falls apart.

[hungryhippo]

America is not falling apart though. Recessions are a normal part of economic systems. Economies cycle; they can't stay booming forever; there isn't a capacity in any nation to support it. Recessions happen; it's just a characteristic of capitalist economies.

Being anti-bush does not mean that you become a liberal. It is perfectly possible to not like one person in a party without turning tail and voting for someone who does not support your personal beliefs on the issues

I didn't say the president doesn't have the power to create change. I said that he does not have the capacity to alter the entire direction of a country. However, the simple rules of of government system reveal quite clearly that one man in the executive branch is simply too limited to create a 180 degree turnaround

[pyke]

I'd like Obama to win, just to see what the democrats can do when they control all branches of government. Can't mess things up that much more I figure.

[Grizzly]

America is not falling apart though. Recessions are a normal part of economic systems. Economies cycle; they can't stay booming forever; there isn't a capacity in any nation to support it. Recessions happen; it's just a characteristic of capitalist economies.

Being anti-bush does not mean that you become a liberal. It is perfectly possible to not like one person in a party without turning tail and voting for someone who does not support your personal beliefs on the issues

I didn't say the president doesn't have the power to create change. I said that he does not have the capacity to alter the entire direction of a country. However, the simple rules of of government system reveal quite clearly that one man in the executive branch is simply too limited to create a 180 degree turnaround

That really is not a justification to downplay the seriousness of a recession. Recession means inflation, increased unemployment, huge drops in the stock market, instability in all markets, decreased spending, decreased strength of the dollar, possibility of sinking into depression and all that fun stuff. Being the largest economy, it is certain that global markets will suffer too, and we're already seeing a lot of this happen.. it's a lot less serious than it was, but many economists speculate that the future holds a recession.. some even say we're already in one.

But does being anti-bush mean your vote goes to the man ppl call McSame. His policies are VERY similar to Bush's.

We don't need to alter the entire direction of our country though. It's really not that drastic, but we definitely need change. "America is better than this".

[Ives]

How pedantic but lively and original(no sarcasm intended) this topic is from its originator. But I was the same way too when I studied econ and got actually into it. Though I read mostly books from Austrian economists and Friedman. So I probably am on a different value system from you.

Anyways, Obama isn't much different from the cats who run the Bush administration. He's still for foreign intervention, for taxes, for empty rhetoric, for everything I'm against. McCain is a useless asshole too, just in a variation on the same theme kinda way. It's colombo versus gambino, ya know?

Edited by Athean, 03 September 2008 - 12:11 AM.

[Mr. Hobo]

How pedantic but lively and original(no sarcasm intended) this topic is from its originator. But I was the same way too when I studied econ and got actually into it. Though I read mostly books from Austrian economists and Friedman. So I probably am on a different value system from you.

Anyways, Obama isn't much different from the cats who run the Bush administration. He's still for foreign intervention, for taxes, for empty rhetoric, for everything I'm against. McCain is a useless asshole too, just in a variation on the same theme kinda way. It's colombo versus gambino, ya know?

Still, Obama is definantly the better out of the 2.

[Tetiel]

False. How can you possibly say that he's the only candidate to do that? All of them have promised some change and like them I highly doubt he'll follow through specifically because all he ever does is talk about change but it's rare that he ever says in his speeches what he wants to change things to.

[hungryhippo]

False. How can you possibly say that he's the only candidate to do that? All of them have promised some change and like them I highly doubt he'll follow through specifically because all he ever does is talk about change but it's rare that he ever says in his speeches what he wants to change things to.

Completely agree with you on that

[Frizzle]

Seeing as McCain's VP has more experience then Obama, I'd say false.

[Jakerz]

True, I'd love to see Obama win.

Of course there is. But I doubt that the certain population of people that actually are voting for mccain because they support mccain is large enough to win, which really pisses me off. Although I disagree with his policies, it wouldn't bother me so much if Mccain were to win for the right reasons. And I'm especially flustered by all the Anti-Bush voters that are going to vote for Mccain when Mccain agrees with 90% of Bush policies..

Nicely said ^

[Fatal]

McCain is crazy, picks a VP with a newborn down syndrome kid and a pregnant 17 year old daughter? psh..

[Alex]

From an unbiased standpoint, I seriously do not understand why 50% of the country likes McCain. I imagine religion and dogma and xenophobia and simple mindedness, bitterness and the worst of all - blind loyalty, all have to do with it.

At least Obama has something going for him, I seriously don't understand what McCain has going for him.

Edited by Alex, 03 September 2008 - 05:54 PM.

[Tetiel]

McCain is crazy, picks a VP with a newborn down syndrome kid and a pregnant 17 year old daughter? psh..

Dude judging someone's ability to lead off of their own personal lives is really low. Especially over something like having a kid with a birth defect. That's not exactly something someone can help.

[Grizzly]

Dude judging someone's ability to lead off of their own personal lives is really low. Especially over something like having a kid with a birth defect. That's not exactly something someone can help.

Well I do have doubts that a mother that can't properly raise a daughter can help govern a country. A big part of her markting is appealing to mothers who can relate to her, but good job fucking that one up lol. Apparently McCain has doubts too since he's running a further background check on her with the recent dirt that's come up on her and her family.

But it is pretty fucked up to judge her for having a child with down syndrome, Fatal. Shame on you!

False. How can you possibly say that he's the only candidate to do that? All of them have promised some change and like them I highly doubt he'll follow through specifically because all he ever does is talk about change but it's rare that he ever says in his speeches what he wants to change things to.

Eh, but the difference is they've all been making the same promises and are essentially all the same people.

It really intrigues me that Obama has a diverse political, cultural, and educational background.. I'm really interested to see what he can do for the country and if any of the two are to commit change, I think it's Obama.

[Tetiel]

Well I do have doubts that a mother that can't properly raise a daughter can help govern a country. A big part of her markting is appealing to mothers who can relate to her, but good job fucking that one up lol. Apparently McCain has doubts too since he's running a further background check on her with the recent dirt that's come up on her and her family.

But it is pretty fucked up to judge her for having a child with down syndrome, Fatal. Shame on you!

Sometimes no matter how good of a parent you are, something still happens. A good parent can still have a drug addicted child. A good parent can still have a child drive home from a party drunk and die in a car crash. Kids are kids and they will fuck up with or without their parents being there. You know what makes her a good parent? Despite her daughter potentially ruining her political career she still loves and supports her and she sticks by all of her children and treats them like a gift from God. She is going to welcome her grandchild with love and support instead of disdain and abandonment.

My parents are good parents and have shown me right from wrong with a great upbringing, but I could have easily become a teen mother as well if certain things did not work out well. I think that it's a shame that such a thing has happened but her daughter is marrying her boyfriend and is having the baby and taking full responsibility for her actions which I think is a very brave thing to do.

Eh, but the difference is they've all been making the same promises and are essentially all the same people.

It really intrigues me that Obama has a diverse political, cultural, and educational background.. I'm really interested to see what he can do for the country and if any of the two are to commit change, I think it's Obama.

Personally I think we're fucked either way

[Melchoire]

They're both douche bags in my opinion. And McCain is still wants to continue the war, who in their right mind would vote for him?

[Grizzly]

Sometimes no matter how good of a parent you are, something still happens. A good parent can still have a drug addicted child. A good parent can still have a child drive home from a party drunk and die in a car crash. Kids are kids and they will fuck up with or without their parents being there. You know what makes her a good parent? Despite her daughter potentially ruining her political career she still loves and supports her and she sticks by all of her children and treats them like a gift from God. She is going to welcome her grandchild with love and support instead of disdain and abandonment.

My parents are good parents and have shown me right from wrong with a great upbringing, but I could have easily become a teen mother as well if certain things did not work out well. I think that it's a shame that such a thing has happened but her daughter is marrying her boyfriend and is having the baby and taking full responsibility for her actions which I think is a very brave thing to do.


Personally I think we're fucked either way

I'm sure that is the case sometimes, but it can also be that her career is taking control of her life and she hasn't been able to juggle both raising children and also being a runnign mate. It's also one thing for your kid to be a little wreckless and another to get pregnant at 17, you know? You start wondering if there was any sort of discipline or parenting in her life.

Edited by Freak, 03 September 2008 - 10:41 PM.

[Reaper]

And McCain is still wants to continue the war, who in their right mind would vote for him?

me

I'm sure that is the case sometimes, but it can also be that her career is taking control of her life and she hasn't been able to juggle both raising children and also being a runnign mate. It's also one thing for your kid to be a little wreckless and another to get pregnant at 17, you know? You start wondering if there was any sort of discipline or parenting in her life.

You know, I think its awesome that she is chosen for VP, cause its actually a real person with REAL issues. Maybe she can help the country get better education about birth control, have her daughter speak to high schools. I'm all for it. I think its great. She can actually understand the troubles that a lot of Americans deal with.

[hungryhippo]

I'm sure that is the case sometimes, but it can also be that her career is taking control of her life and she hasn't been able to juggle both raising children and also being a runnign mate

Her daughter is five months along...her being pregnant doesn't have anything to do with her mom being the VP nom.

And I completely agree, sometimes the best parents in the world have a mess up kid. And she is taking resposibility for her actions; she didn't off for some hush-hush abortion or anything terrible like that.

[Frizzle]

From an unbiased standpoint, I seriously do not understand why 50% of the country likes McCain. I imagine religion and dogma and xenophobia and simple mindedness, bitterness and the worst of all - blind loyalty, all have to do with it.

At least Obama has something going for him, I seriously don't understand what McCain has going for him.

What does Obama actually stand for? He can't even make up his own mind. At least with McCain you get a straight answer.

Well I do have doubts that a mother that can't properly raise a daughter can help govern a country. A big part of her markting is appealing to mothers who can relate to her, but good job fucking that one up lol. Apparently McCain has doubts too since he's running a further background check on her with the recent dirt that's come up on her and her family.

It really intrigues me that Obama has a diverse political, cultural, and educational background.. I'm really interested to see what he can do for the country and if any of the two are to commit change, I think it's Obama.

Name one President or Vice President that doesn't have kids. Obama has two kids himself, so that's them in the same category. Also, tell me how diverse Obama is in politics? He lacks experience which Palin doesn't. And to be fair, I'm not sure being multi-cultural is the best for a leader.

They're both douche bags in my opinion. And McCain is still wants to continue the war, who in their right mind would vote for him?

Stop spouting shit. He wants to end it as quickly as possible, but you can't just run away from it, it's like running over a child, ringing the ambulance and then leaving before it turns up.