Quantcast

Jump to content


Photo

Is the world better with or without religion?


  • Please log in to reply
282 replies to this topic

Poll: Is the world better with or without religion?

Is the world better with or without religion?

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Vote Guests cannot vote

#26 Volition

Volition
  • 674 posts

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:06 PM

I always find it funny how atheists attack those who cling to [a] religion.


It's weird right? Usually the other way around.

Why on earth are you promoting this website? Any publicity is still publicity and all you're doing is giving these people more site views.


I'm obviously in favor of them. Also, I'm gonna go ahead and call this 'raising awareness'. edit: kony2012 claimed the same thing, why can't I?

That's what I mean, people blame religion because of the actions of a individual or a group of humans that are not perfect, therefore interpreting things and then promoting them as if they are "from the mouth of God". But question is, would God actually do or say such a thing because humans have said that God would?

I think that if you are against the ideas being promoted within those websites, it would make more sense to attack and criticize the people who made them

especially if you are an atheist, if you do not believe that such beings as God exist, why attack them? Criticize the people instead.


That criticism doesn't work very well when the people use God as their defense, attacking deities shows fallacies in arguments when people say "will of god" and so on and so forth.

Edited by Volition, 15 April 2012 - 07:07 PM.


#27 Adam

Adam
  • Coffee God


  • 4,348 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:14 PM

It's weird right? Usually the other way around.



I'm obviously in favor of them. Also, I'm gonna go ahead and call this 'raising awareness'. edit: kony2012 claimed the same thing, why can't I?



That criticism doesn't work very well when the people use God as their defense, attacking deities shows fallacies in arguments when people say "will of god" and so on and so forth.


You capitalized the G in God, therefore you are giving 'him' respect. You are not a true atheist.

Edited by Adam, 15 April 2012 - 07:15 PM.


#28 Nonexistent

Nonexistent
  • 681 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:16 PM

But is it the "will of God"?

What I am saying is that there needs to be a clear understanding of the difference between religions and the consequences of the actions of individual people.

We can't say that the world will or will not be a better place with or without religions, the religious texts are open to interpretation. The effects that people see and feel from the consequences of the actions of people who interpret the texts in their own individual ways are to be blamed.

The existence of God or other being is a separate topic.

Edited by Nonexistent, 15 April 2012 - 07:18 PM.


#29 Volition

Volition
  • 674 posts

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:21 PM

You capitalized the G in God, therefore you are giving 'him' respect. You are not a true atheist.


I also used it in lowercase in the same sentence, that must also invalidate my argument, correct?

#30 Adam

Adam
  • Coffee God


  • 4,348 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:23 PM

I also used it in lowercase in the same sentence, that must also invalidate my argument, correct?


Yep, your argument is then nullified by using both cases. Hello.

#31 Elindoril

Elindoril
  • Weeaboo Trash

  • 8,997 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:25 PM

You capitalized the G in God, therefore you are giving 'him' respect. You are not a true atheist.

I capitalize God as well, but I'm not religious or spiritual at all.

God is just a name to me, like any other persons name, and thus I'll capitalize it as such.

#32 Jess

Jess
  • 🍴Aioli-American🍴



  • 9,203 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:25 PM

I also used it in lowercase in the same sentence, that must also invalidate my argument, correct?


Well, technically, I think you're validating your argument. You also posted a link to how stupid Christians are with a link to those gay-hating people, then later said you believed in gay-hating people. God, god.

Seems legit.

Edited by Napiform, 15 April 2012 - 07:26 PM.


#33 Adam

Adam
  • Coffee God


  • 4,348 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:27 PM

Maybe it's just a personal thing and a way I do it. Just like I don't respect my boss so whenever I have to type his name I put it in lower case.

#34 Volition

Volition
  • 674 posts

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:28 PM

Yep, your argument is then nullified by using both cases. Hello.


would you like me to edit it? would you like the uncapitalized 'g' capitalized or the capitalized one changed to lowercase?
regardless it still shows your only rebuttal is semantics.

#35 Adam

Adam
  • Coffee God


  • 4,348 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:29 PM

I just realized something, I'm very good at getting people off topic lolol.

#36 Volition

Volition
  • 674 posts

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:30 PM

Well, technically, I think you're validating your argument. You also posted a link to how stupid Christians are with a link to those gay-hating people, then later said you believed in gay-hating people. God, god.

Seems legit.


when/where did I say I believed in gay-hating people?

#37 Jess

Jess
  • 🍴Aioli-American🍴



  • 9,203 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:31 PM

when/where did I say I believed in gay-hating people?


I'm obviously in favor of them. Also, I'm gonna go ahead and call this 'raising awareness'. edit: kony2012 claimed the same thing, why can't I?



#38 Volition

Volition
  • 674 posts

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:32 PM


can you actually not see the sarcasm?

#39 Jess

Jess
  • 🍴Aioli-American🍴



  • 9,203 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:33 PM

can you actually not see the sarcasm?


...did you actually not see the sarcasm in mine?

#40 Adam

Adam
  • Coffee God


  • 4,348 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:34 PM

The only people good at portraying sarcasm on the forums are Sweeney and scot. Maybe a few others, so don't expect to pull it off so easily.

#41 Elindoril

Elindoril
  • Weeaboo Trash

  • 8,997 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:37 PM

Let's not get too off-topic, everyone.

#42 Volition

Volition
  • 674 posts

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:39 PM

...did you actually not see the sarcasm in mine?


not really, you didn't say anything, just quoted me.

#43 Romy

Romy
  • Ableist Neocodex Elite Four Member



  • 4,738 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:46 PM

Posted Image

Whoa...verbal fist flying left and right.

Again, absolute power corrupts. Any system (religious or not) that places too much power in the hands of the few (Republics, Pastoral religions) is prone to manipulation.

But..i have a question for atheists. What do you guys disagree with more; the power abuse committed by religious leaders or the existence of a god in general?

#44 Jess

Jess
  • 🍴Aioli-American🍴



  • 9,203 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:49 PM

I tl;dr this earlier, but now I'm back to it.

I don't think religion is the basis of all evil :p I agree that is human nature to war (though I believe with the continuation of globalisation war will continue to decrease, but that's a separate issue). There have been countless non-religious wars (Stalin, Hitler - religious persecution sure, but he certaintly didn't fight under the banner of religion) so that argument is more or less moot.


I disagree. If there weren't Jews, Hitler wouldn't have ordered them killed, so there wouldn't have been a war. That's still a religious war, even if Hitler wasn't officially religious. He was just one side of the war. As for Stalin, Communism is religion in the same way you're opposed to in that it's brainwashing and there is no room for other religions, so I would go so far to consider that a religious war, since it was a war based on singular thought. Communists have sacred writings, sacred people, 'apostles', conversion, and faith -- Communism is a religion in my mind.

For all intents and purposes I'm an atheist, and so I believe religion is simply not true. My original post was therefore more a condemnation on the systematic approach most religions adopt to indoctrinate people in to sharing their beliefs. My mind and beliefs are what I deem to be most sacred to me, and I therefore consider it inexcusable to be brainwashed in such a way. I equivocate believing in the Christian God as believing in Santa Claus or the Boogy Man, and so you can see how ludicrous it is for me to accept that other people see the world through that lens.

I take particular offense to children being brainwashed in to believing in God. Telling a child that they have to be good, else they're going to Hell is akin to mental child abuse. While it certainly isn't true for all scenarios, most people who consider themselves deeply religious are converted at a young age (and think about it, how many people would believe in Santa Claus their entire life if they couldn't disprove it - you stop believing when your parents tell you, or your friends give you cold hard facts to counter it). I went to an Anglican school as a child, and when they sneak Bible Studies classes in between maths and science and teach it as fact, you take it as fact.


I agree with you for part of this. Children are different than adults and should never be told that they are going to hell if they aren't good. God shouldn't be used as a weapon to get anyone to behave, children or not.

And to all those who argue that religion helps bring them peace and teaches them morals and how to be a better person - sure, that's true. Though I'd also argue that you could fill that void without religion just as easily.


YOU might be able to. I know I can, though I prefer God in my life. Not everyone can though. Not everyone is capable of doing it alone. Everyone is different and if there weren't people that didn't need religion (not God, but religion), truly need it, then it wouldn't exist in the capacity it does.

Edited by Napiform, 15 April 2012 - 07:56 PM.


#45 Ladida

Ladida
  • Night Owl 🌛


  • 1,989 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:58 PM

Let's not get too off-topic, everyone.


Woo! Elindoril's first potential mod job :p

#46 Nonexistent

Nonexistent
  • 681 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:06 PM

I disagree. If there weren't Jews, Hitler wouldn't have ordered them killed, so there wouldn't have been a war.


Hitler was using anyone and any group that was "unGerman" as a scapegoat to rally the German people, he also blamed blacks, homosexuals, handicapped, communists, so even if Jews didn't exist Hitler would still have been pissed off at the Allied powers and the treaty of Versailles

#47 Maggiemouse

Maggiemouse
  • 50 posts

Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:17 PM

I personally believe that religion is much too organized. Therefore I believe that things would be better without religion.

I don't think religion itself is a bad idea, just organizing it tends to lead to a mob mentality. Religious based wars are created by radical and irrational beliefs derived from books and groups that can't tell you how to live in this age. I was raised Russian Orthodox and my father always took what our priest had to say to heart. Like "Gays are bad", "Muslims are bad", he even told me that my friends were going to hell because they weren't orthodox. I just don't understand why people need someone to tell them how to live a moral and good life. I'm much more moral than most Christians I have met so far, and I don't have a god to encourage me. I have myself, and my ideas about how life, for me, should be lived.

#48 GumCuzzler

GumCuzzler
  • Creature of the Night

  • 921 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:05 PM

I tl;dr this earlier, but now I'm back to it.



If there weren't Jews, Hitler wouldn't have ordered them killed, so there wouldn't have been a war. That's still a religious war, even if Hitler wasn't officially religious.


That war had nothing to do with religion. It was a war on the peope- not on their god. Like it has been stated, Hitler saught to destroy the unGerman (ironic) and the Jewish people served (among other groups) as the unGerman.

Edit: back on topic.

My own thoughts on religion: I think that religion as denomination can be harmful, for reasons one doesn't have to look far to find. However, I think the personal 'spirituality' it (potentially) offers is invaluable to society. It gives perspective and reminds us that we are merely specs amongst an incomprehensible system.

Edited by cronus, 15 April 2012 - 09:08 PM.


#49 artificial

artificial
  • 186 posts


Users Awards

Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:14 PM

It gives perspective and reminds us that we are merely specs amongst an incomprehensible system.


That probably counters the reason why most people turn to religion :p Religion provides humanity with a sense of purpose. According to the dessert religions, the world was pretty much tailored specifically for humans.

You only have to understand the very basics of science to truly come to terms with how inconsequential we are :rolleyes:

#50 luvsmyncis

luvsmyncis
  • I have no friends.

  • 6,724 posts


Users Awards

Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:10 AM

I'm just going to ignore the ignorant banter.

I'd lean towards it being better without religion due to the fact that it's unnecessarily divisive despite there being no proof supporting any of the main religions but even if religion didn't exist people would just come up with something else to hate other people for. I'd argue that it's human nature to categorise people and that it would happen whether religion existed or not.

I agree with most of this comment, except for your personal leaning towards it being better without religion. I would lean towards the world being better with religion, simply because of all the charities and humanitarian missions involved in many religious gatherings. Certainly there are many charities and whatnot done in the name of science or just human goodwill, but I am amazed by the number of people willing to shell out cash for the needy because they feel it makes them a better Christian to do so. I'm sure we've all seen those ads for kids in some ooooohhhh.... exotic and primitive country who have facial deformities being afforded surgery. It might be deceitful or wrong for those missions to do so in the name of JEEEEEE-SUUUUUS!!, but at least it's being done.

It would be impossible to compare how many lives religion has taken to how many lives religion has touched in a positive way. Maybe it's equal. In which case, it all just balances out, really. Because like Waser said, even if there weren't religion, we'd look at that fat person, or that brown person, or that short person with the squinty eyes and feel superior to them for one reason or another, and just blow their brains out for that.

And to all those who argue that religion helps bring them peace and teaches them morals and how to be a better person - sure, that's true. Though I'd also argue that you could fill that void without religion just as easily.

It's very sad we need the threat of hell and eternal damnation to make people behave properly. How exactly do you propose to teach a person who cannot fathom empathy what is right or wrong without the threat of hell?


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users