274 replies to this topic

[Yung]

Right, I smack my wife when she's about to get into danger.

You being horny shouldn't count as "danger."

often times for not often times for not doing things that my dad thought that you told me to things that my dad thought that you told me to things that my dad thought that he had told me to do when I didn't deserve it I feel as though it taught me a valuable lesson and it dissuaded me from continuing in that form of behavior from that point on.

and under the correc and under the correct circumstances was very effectiv was very effective for me as a child.

[Waser Lave]

My point was that we treat children with such little respect.  Lucky for women they've had their women's right movement, if we could extend moral rights to children, the world would be a totally different place.

The difference is that women tend to know what they're doing while children, by their very nature, are still learning about the world around them. It's not about a lack of respect, it's about necessity in situations like the one I described. I don't agree with smacking children for trivial matters but I do think there are a few situations where it is both beneficial and necessary.

[NapisaurusRex]

You being horny shouldn't count as "danger."

often times for not often times for not doing things that my dad thought that you told me to things that my dad thought that you told me to things that my dad thought that he had told me to do when I didn't deserve it I feel as though it taught me a valuable lesson and it dissuaded me from continuing in that form of behavior from that point on.

and under the correc and under the correct circumstances was very effectiv was very effective for me as a child.

Are you drunk?

The difference is that women tend to know what they're doing while children, by their very nature, are still learning about the world around them. It's not about a lack of respect, it's about necessity in situations like the one I described. I don't agree with smacking children for trivial matters but I do think there are a few situations where it is both beneficial and necessary.

I hadn't thought of it that way.

Edited by Napiform, 23 April 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Waser Lave]

Are you drunk?

Smack him, if he feels it then he's not drunk enough.

[James]

I think spanking children is completely fine. Children need to be taught how to behave correctly in a society and spanking gets that point across very well. As was previously pointed out, there is a difference between spanking and being abused (such as being hit with a coat hanger). If a child does something bad and is spanked, the next time the opportunity arises for the child to partake in that action the child will remember what the consequences are and not do it again.

 

Spanking an adult "as punishment" is not the same as children. By the time a person becomes an adult they should know what is accepted in society. Those that don't end up in jail or dead. Used as punishment, spanking an adult is clearly abuse and the recipient should get some help. However, kinky spanking is perfectly fine. As long as both people like it, whatever.

[Turnip]

I think spanking children is completely fine. Children need to be taught how to behave correctly in a society and spanking gets that point across very well. [...] If a child does something bad and is spanked, the next time the opportunity arises for the child to partake in that action the child will remember what the consequences are and not do it again.

 

It REALLY depends on the kid. Some kids have terrible memory (short term anyways), some do shit just to make you angry enough to raise your voice/hit them and find it a game. Hell there's no guarantee they'll realise what they did was bad enough to get hit since they might think its fine and believe their reasoning behind what they did is ok, and spanking in my opinion sure isn't the right way to show them what they did was wrong    

Edited by Turnip, 23 April 2013 - 03:45 PM.

[Yung]

Are you drunk?I hadn't thought of it that way.

Stupid voice text on my phone.

[RitzWin]

The difference is that women tend to know what they're doing while children, by their very nature, are still learning about the world around them. It's not about a lack of respect, it's about necessity in situations like the one I described. I don't agree with smacking children for trivial matters but I do think there are a few situations where it is both beneficial and necessary.

 

Right, so you'd smack someone with Alzheimer's because they don't know what they're doing.  Or some mentally handicapped person.  As long as we're consistent.

[NapisaurusRex]

Right, so you'd smack someone with Alzheimer's because they don't know what they're doing.  Or some mentally handicapped person.  As long as we're consistent.

Those things aren't all equal. Define 'mentally handicapped'

[RitzWin]

In what way?

 

Children that have been treated with respect tend to treat others with respect.  Same as adults.

 

For more in-depth information on the topic:

Those things aren't all equal. Define 'mentally handicapped'

Someone who's body is 24 years old, but who's brain hasn't developed past the age of 5.

[Waser Lave]

Right, so you'd smack someone with Alzheimer's because they don't know what they're doing.  Or some mentally handicapped person.  As long as we're consistent.

If it was a choice between doing that and having them seriously harm themselves then yes.

[James]

It REALLY depends on the kid. Some kids have terrible memory (short term anyways), some do shit just to make you angry enough to raise your voice/hit them and find it a game. Hell there's no guarantee they'll realise what they did was bad enough to get hit since they might think its fine and believe their reasoning behind what they did is reasonable, and spanking in my opinion sure isn't the right way to show them what they did was wrong   

Of course some things need to be accounted for, such as the memory problem.

 

The "kids" that "do shit just to make you angry" have either been raised wrong or are just going through adolescence. Almost everyone goes through a limit testing stage in their life and by that point they aren't really children anymore, but young adults. By that age, taking away a phone or car would be more than enough a disciplinary action needed to get a point across.

[Bone]

This is a dumb argument. Sometimes physicality is the only/best way to teach a child a lesson. The line between giving a kid a slap on the ass to make a point and causing physical or psychological damage (i.e. abuse) is pretty damn clear.

 

Also spanking your SO is highly recommended, as long as you're both consenting.

[NapisaurusRex]

Children that have been treated with respect tend to treat others with respect.  Same as adults.
 
For more in-depth information on the topic:



Someone who's body is 24 years old, but who's brain hasn't developed past the age of 5.

~3 min in. Neglect and spanking are hardly the same thing. Abuse and spanking are still different things to me.

~3 min 30 sec the middle class is currently disappearing in the US. Why study those people then? That's not really reality.

4 min 30 sec - well, duh. I'm assuming he's using 'chaotic home' as a euphemism for abusive? Then it would go up.

5 min - So it's ok, as long as the kid is over the age of 4. Some kids are born broken.

5 min 30 sec - sex abuse is not spanking. Also, wtf are you people doing in the UK? 2/3 of women hit their kid within the first year of life? I didn't spank my oldest for the first time until she was way over 4. In my opinion, hitting people *with* things is different than spanking.

6 min - so shouldn't the crime rate be much higher? Or are they considering criminal behaviour to include petty stuff like traffic violations and cussing in public?

6 30 - 66% of participants reported one or more types of abuse... what percent were obese?

7 min - what amount of these drug users had parents/close friends who were drug users?

8 min - what was the genetic make up of these people? Some people are genetically prone to alcoholism. Were the people who beat them also alcoholics?

8 30 - alcoholics are more suicidal

 

9 - chart doesn't account for the aforementioned things. 

 

~10 - people who drink/do drugs have higher risks of those things. This is saying people who get hit do more drinking and doping. 

 

11 - again, doesn't address surroundings of these people. People who grow up around smokers are more likely to smoke.

 

12 - based on the types of abuse these people apparently endured, they would be depressed. These types of abuse are not spanking though.

 

13 - this is where I stopped, because I'm failing to see what this video has to do with spanking.

 

 

 

 

 

[RitzWin]

~3 min in. Neglect and spanking are hardly the same thing. Abuse and spanking are still different things to me.

~3 min 30 sec the middle class is currently disappearing in the US. Why study those people then? That's not really reality.

4 min 30 sec - well, duh. I'm assuming he's using 'chaotic home' as a euphemism for abusive? Then it would go up.

5 min - So it's ok, as long as the kid is over the age of 4. Some kids are born broken.

5 min 30 sec - sex abuse is not spanking. Also, wtf are you people doing in the UK? 2/3 of women hit their kid within the first year of life? I didn't spank my oldest for the first time until she was way over 4. In my opinion, hitting people *with* things is different than spanking.

6 min - so shouldn't the crime rate be much higher? Or are they considering criminal behaviour to include petty stuff like traffic violations and cussing in public?

6 30 - 66% of participants reported one or more types of abuse... what percent were obese?

7 min - what amount of these drug users had parents/close friends who were drug users?

8 min - what was the genetic make up of these people? Some people are genetically prone to alcoholism. Were the people who beat them also alcoholics?

8 30 - alcoholics are more suicidal

 

9 - chart doesn't account for the aforementioned things. 

 

~10 - people who drink/do drugs have higher risks of those things. This is saying people who get hit do more drinking and doping. 

 

11 - again, doesn't address surroundings of these people. People who grow up around smokers are more likely to smoke.

 

12 - based on the types of abuse these people apparently endured, they would be depressed. These types of abuse are not spanking though.

 

13 - this is where I stopped, because I'm failing to see what this video has to do with spanking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know that everyone here defending hitting your children was hit as a child as well, and that you're trying to defend your parent's abhorable actions.  Putting 'hitting a child on their ass with your hand' in a different moral category as 'hitting a child on their X with X' is plainly absurd to anyone who hasn't hit children.  The documentary goes into this later on, but it doesn't sound like you'd be open to changing your mind on the subject so you're right not to watch any longer.

 

However, it's to be expected that cognitive dissonance would be strong when it comes to raising children.

[Waser Lave]

5 min 30 sec - sex abuse is not spanking. Also, wtf are you people doing in the UK? 2/3 of women hit their kid within the first year of life? I didn't spank my oldest for the first time until she was way over 4. In my opinion, hitting people *with* things is different than spanking.

I'm not sure where he got those stats from (it's one of the problems with using a random person's youtube video as a reference) but I'd be amazed if they were anywhere near accurate.

[Sweeney]

Physical punishment is never the best option.

 

Teaching a child that the best way to get others to do what they want is by hitting them? Dumb.

[Kauvara]

I was a victim of the wooden spoon! It hurt like hell, but it also got me to stop being a brat and I wasn't left in any detrimental state with feelings of abuse because of it. I suppose it was the way my parents went about it. (They weren't psycho, just... "Alright. That's enough.")

Only thing is now that I am an adult I suppose I am a little agressive.... ok maybe a lot.

If anyone fucks with me the first thing that comes to mind is "I'm gonna wring your fucking neck."

 

SO. lol.

 

I don't think I could do it to my own child, but then again I don't have any children yet so idk what the hell I would do.

I just feel like hitting someone to teach them to act right sends the wrong message.

 

As far as hitting or "spanking" your spouse, I'm not okay with that. It doesn't really accomplish anything aside from asserting dominance. I just don't think that's the best way to go about getting someone to respect you. They will only respect you out of fear, not because they like you.

 

Maybe that's what I was trying to get at with the hitting your kids thing. .

Edited by Jabberwock, 23 April 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[Romy]

I think there's a place for it in exceptional circumstances where a child needs a shock to prevent a dangerous situation. For example, if a kid tries to run onto a busy road just talking to them or raising your voice wouldn't equate to the seriousness of the situation so a smack would probably be appropriate to make sure they understand the potential danger and don't do it again.

 

 

Physical punishment is never the best option.

 

Teaching a child that the best way to get others to do what they want is by hitting them? Dumb.

 

Can you address Waser's point? I don't mean to be standoffish, I just want to know how you feel about situations like that.

[Sweeney]

Can you address Waser's point? I don't mean to be standoffish, I just want to know how you feel about situations like that.

 

That's not a punishment.

Reacting in the moment to prevent imminent injury is not punitive.

 

If he's talking about preventing the dangerous situation from occurring, and then providing pain as a punitive measure, then he's wrong.

[Waser Lave]

If he's talking about preventing the dangerous situation from occurring, and then providing pain as a punitive measure, then he's wrong.

Prove it. You know better than to state opinions as facts without backing them up.

[Sweeney]

Prove it.

 

Certainly. But you know how it works, the onus is on you to provide the evidence for your statement, such that I can disprove it.

 

[Waser Lave]

Certainly. But you know how it works, the onus is on you to provide the evidence for your statement, such that I can disprove it.
 

Except that I stated a personal opinion, I didn't claim it to be right or a fact. You stated it as fact that my opinion was wrong so you should be providing the evidence to support your statement. You big silly goose.

[Sweeney]

Except that I stated a personal opinion, I didn't claim it to be right or a fact. You stated it as fact that my opinion was wrong so you should be providing the evidence to support your statement. You big silly goose.

 

Oh, you're right, I suppose. Consider mine an argument from authority

[NapisaurusRex]

I know that everyone here defending hitting your children was hit as a child as well, and that you're trying to defend your parent's abhorable actions.  Putting 'hitting a child on their ass with your hand' in a different moral category as 'hitting a child on their X with X' is plainly absurd to anyone who hasn't hit children.  The documentary goes into this later on, but it doesn't sound like you'd be open to changing your mind on the subject so you're right not to watch any longer.

 

However, it's to be expected that cognitive dissonance would be strong when it comes to raising children.

ok.