87 replies to this topic

[pancakeface]

I'm vegetarian and it is hard for me to get protein sometimes. I don't eat meat because I don't like the taste, so I can't get protein from it. I don't like nuts, except for peanut butter, so I don't get much protein there. I rarely eat any kind of beans, so that's another place I'm not getting a ton of protein from. 
Really, one of the largest sources of my protein is tofu. I love it. And soy, if that has protein. 

I had to take vitamins as a child because of the fact that I didn't get much protein or iron in my diet. Plus, they were good for me anyways. I don't take them now, but I probably should. 

 

I don't care much for the taste of meat either and I love soy which does alright as a protein substitute but I don't believe it should be the main one. A consistent diet of soy affects estrogen levels which can be good sometimes but not for a lengthy period of time. Maybe try white beans and chickpeas etc, they make a delicious mash and have a similar nutty taste to soy. That delicious silk tofu texture is probably irreplaceable outside of eggs though.

 

 
Have you tried meat substitutes? Like you said soy there but I'm asking just in case. Even though they're trying to emulate the meat's taste they're a bit more uh mild? usually and they're a pretty good source of protein :0 I absolutely loooove those Morningstar Farms chicken nuggets and corndogs oh my god (why can't they be available outside of the US ;_; ) but they have a load of different things you can try. Do they sell Quorn products in America? Since they make some good shit too ^^ And of course there's always eggs!!

 

Meat substitutes tend to use texturizers and flavorings to make it taste more like meat. Soy protein used in these meat substitutes allegedly has several phytochemicals which make it difficult to digest and even suppresses the thyroid, not to mention the phytoestrogen can throw hormonal systems out of whack. I'm not saying we can't ever eat it, but moderation is key.

[Turnip]

Meat substitutes tend to use texturizers and flavorings to make it taste more like meat. Soy protein used in these meat substitutes allegedly has several phytochemicals which make it difficult to digest and even suppresses the thyroid, not to mention the phytoestrogen can throw hormonal systems out of whack. I'm not saying we can't ever eat it, but moderation is key.

Whoa dang seriously? That's crazy, I had no idea they did that :0 Good thing I don't buy them too often!!

[Mishelle]

I feel like I need to reiterate that there is no correlation between being heavy and being unhealthy. You can be plushy and have a perfectly working heart, normal blood pressure, etc. There have been scores of studies published on the matter, here are just a few that I picked out from a quick Google Scholar search:
 
http://www.hindawi.c...be/2012/951582/
http://www.mayoclini...2/abstract?cc=y
http://link.springer...2350-010-9214-6
http://eurheartj.oxf...tj.ehp339.short
 
The following videos are from a TED conference detailing the psychology and the neuroscience behind concepts like dieting and "healthy living". The first talk is by a neuroscientist, the second by a clinical psychologist, the third by your regular Joe Schmo. To summarize an extraordinarily dense topic, the fact of the matter is is that dieting, for the vast majority of people that undertake this chore, does not work. We need a sweeping cultural revolution in the way that we perceive fatness: if a person is heavy, it does not mean that they are unhealthy or lazy or that they don't want to change. It just means that they're heavy. And to cast aspersions upon populations of people without knowing their own stories or backgrounds, and, indeed, the very science behind obesity, is, to put it mildly, incredibly discriminatory. 
 

 

 

 
All the best.

So very true. The fact of the matter is people don't actually care about health. All they care about is what's pleasing to the eye. Being "concerned about their health" is just a front for what they really mean "I don't want you to be fat in my presence"

When I was at my thinnest I got a lot of compliments even thought I dropped the weight super quickly, which is really unhealthy. The reason I dropped it was because of extreme depression, not from diet or exercise and yet no one really seemed to care. I still got compliments because I was skinny.

[pancakeface]

So very true. The fact of the matter is people don't actually care about health. All they care about is what's pleasing to the eye. Being "concerned about their health" is just a front for what they really mean "I don't want you to be fat in my presence"

When I was at my thinnest I got a lot of compliments even thought I dropped the weight super quickly, which is really unhealthy. The reason I dropped it was because of extreme depression, not from diet or exercise and yet no one really seemed to care. I still got compliments because I was skinny.

 

On a similar note, I recently saw an article about the physical complications as well as emotional issues that arose within participants of the biggest loser.

 

Health and physique are conventionally conflated but I've definitely read articles about the two not necessarily being scientifically linked. An assumption which does not help arguments. On one side of the argument, people are arguing against being judged for their weight and appearance on the grounds of equality. On the other side, people are arguing against overindulgence of calories and laziness on the grounds of health. Personally, I agree with the basic premise of both but how do you recommend that to both parties?

[Scot]

Just going to leave this here

 

http://imgur.com/a/6ovAV

[DregsandDregs]

Part of the problem is BMI is bullshit because it doesn't distinguish between fat and muscle.  Furthermore, it was orginally 'calibrated' in the early 19th century.  AH here, NPR link:

 

http://www.npr.org/t...oryId=106268439

 

There's recently been a push to lable the current average/normal on BMI as underweight.  You want to know why?  Because the people who were labled as "overweight" (Not obese) were healthier and lived longer than the 'normal' people.  Incidentally, obese people are healthier than the severely underweight people.

 

There's also medicine issues, specifically doctors will ignore illnesses of fat people and focus on the fat, or blame the fat.  If you'd just loose weight your issues would go away~

 

And the stress fat versus fat fat...(Don't judge me, I have health nuts and abody builder for friends)  Anyways, you probably noticed two kinds of obese people, the ones that are kind of bloated fat all around, and then the ones that despite being obese that sometimes have a figure and much less fat on their extremities, sometimes are just basically beer bellies?  The latter is cortisol fat, which can be due to stress.  They won't loose weight until they are free of the stress.

 

(There's the third type that are kinda uniform fat, like a layer of fat all over them, and very little in the buldge?  Think Chris Pratt+, that's more body type and even if you get rid of it...you don't?)

[NapisaurusRex]

There's recently been a push to lable the current average/normal on BMI as underweight.  You want to know why?  Because the people who were labled as "overweight" (Not obese) were healthier and lived longer than the 'normal' people.  Incidentally, obese people are healthier than the severely underweight people.

I didn't see this part in the link you provided. Can I have the source for that?
 

There's also medicine issues, specifically doctors will ignore illnesses of fat people and focus on the fat, or blame the fat.  If you'd just loose weight your issues would go away~

Doctors ignore illnesses in skinny people too and focus on pills and stress. The issue with the is the doctor and treatment mentality , not the patient or their weight.
 

And the stress fat versus fat fat...(Don't judge me, I have health nuts and abody builder for friends)  Anyways, you probably noticed two kinds of obese people, the ones that are kind of bloated fat all around, and then the ones that despite being obese that sometimes have a figure and much less fat on their extremities, sometimes are just basically beer bellies?  The latter is cortisol fat, which can be due to stress.  They won't loose weight until they are free of the stress.

It can be due to stress. It can also be due to wheat, corn, sugar, or a dozen other things. Those people also won't lose weight until they're free of their addictions.

[Nymh]

I'm not fat and doctors have been ignoring me for years

[Adam]

I'm not fat and doctors have been ignoring me for years

^^

 

I go to my doctor with a list of problems, and she prescribes me motrin. Motrin never has anything to do with my symptoms. I hate being ignored.

[blue]

It can be due to stress. It can also be due to wheat, corn, sugar, or a dozen other things. Those people also won't lose weight until they're free of their addictions.

Be free of sugar? NEVER!

[NapisaurusRex]

Be free of sugar? NEVER!

I was thinking along the lines of sugar hidden in refined foods and gmo sugar beets, not things like fruit.

[Kaddict]

I didn't see this part in the link you provided. Can I have the source for that?
 
Doctors ignore illnesses in skinny people too and focus on pills and stress. The issue with the is the doctor and treatment mentality , not the patient or their weight.

 

We just finished a block about GI and nutrition, and some of the things Dregs said about BMI are right (all cause mortality is the same for someone with a BMI of 17.5 [barely underweight according the traditional BMI scales] and 32.5 [Class I obesity]) and that it was invented in the 19th century, but it wasn't really used at all until the 1970's. The equation stayed, but the reference range didn't (in fact ref range is different depending on what country you are in). But the BMI scale is garbage when it says that 18.5-25 is healthy, since 17.5 and 32.5 have the same mortality, (1 point low and 7.5 points high). I feel they should either change healthy range from 20-25 or 18.5-30, since mortality is about the same in those ranges. I think they keep it lower just because it is so easy to gain a few pounds a year until you are in a dangerous weight category. Also, doctors have been shown to being biased against fat people. Most people are, it isn't right, but it is what it is. So, they often wont get as good as health care as they deserve, but the same can be said about a number of different groups. And, of course, not all doctors are biased.

[Eggie]

This is a really sensitive topic for me, but as somebody with an eating disorder it wasn't until I broke free of the stigma and the obsessive thinking patterns around weight and shape that society seems to have that I actually started to recover for real. I know from first-hand experience that society's views on what is appropriately skinny is unacceptable.

 

When I was around BMI 11/12, I had a customer tell me that I looked "so fit and in shape". Seriously. I was around 75 pounds. I could barely do my job anymore. Just before I started to recover - the day I started, actually - at a BMI of around 10 (65 pounds) I went on Omegle's video chat out of curiousity to see what people would say. The majority of people told me I looked "great" even though my bones were sticking out everywhere, my eyes were sunken in and my skin had no colour. After about an hour of going in and out of small conversations, I had a grand total of 1 person ask me if I had an ED. It's shocking how society is so geared to think thin = good that even when somebody goes overboard to the point of almost being dead it's still viewed as a positive thing.

 

The Fat Acceptance Movement just seems a bit like wanting to turn society's obsession with thinness in the opposite direction which is just as unhealthy. Can't we just embrace moderation? There never seems to be a middle ground - it's always one extreme or the other.

 

I've been told by many doctors about the "set-point theory" where the idea is that your body has a set-point weight that it wants to be at and will fight to stay at. As long as you eat healthy and in moderation (eat only when you're hungry, no restriction and/or binging) your body will automatically go to that set point and it'll stay there as long as you continue. For a small percentage of people, that set point is in the overweight or underweight BMI category. Either way, it's the weight that your own individual body is healthiest at.

 

IMO, it's a combination of stress, lack of sleep, and comfort eating/eating past the point of fullness that makes people fat. When your mind gets too involved in your body's basic functions, things mess up. Diets will always lead to binging and rebound weight. Everything is ok in moderation, always.

[cara]

This is a really sensitive topic for me, but as somebody with an eating disorder it wasn't until I broke free of the stigma and the obsessive thinking patterns around weight and shape that society seems to have that I actually started to recover for real. I know from first-hand experience that society's views on what is appropriately skinny is unacceptable.

 

When I was around BMI 11/12, I had a customer tell me that I looked "so fit and in shape". Seriously. I was around 75 pounds. I could barely do my job anymore. Just before I started to recover - the day I started, actually - at a BMI of around 10 (65 pounds) I went on Omegle's video chat out of curiousity to see what people would say. The majority of people told me I looked "great" even though my bones were sticking out everywhere, my eyes were sunken in and my skin had no colour. After about an hour of going in and out of small conversations, I had a grand total of 1 person ask me if I had an ED. It's shocking how society is so geared to think thin = good that even when somebody goes overboard to the point of almost being dead it's still viewed as a positive thing.

 

I totally know what you're saying. I was about 85-90 pounds up until about 17-18. People freak out at how much weight I've put on (about 110-120 now) and ask what I've done wrong to not be that thin anymore. Essentially I stopped doing an array of drugs and gained weight. Even though I'm worlds healthier than how I used to be, I was still better and more accomplished when I was 'achieving' that unrealistic stick thin. I won't ever understand it either.

[Eggie]

I totally know what you're saying. I was about 85-90 pounds up until about 17-18. People freak out at how much weight I've put on (about 110-120 now) and ask what I've done wrong to not be that thin anymore. Essentially I stopped doing an array of drugs and gained weight. Even though I'm worlds healthier than how I used to be, I was still better and more accomplished when I was 'achieving' that unrealistic stick thin. I won't ever understand it either.

First of all, I'm so, so incredibly glad that you stopped doing drugs. That's a really hard addiction to break.

 

Society really needs to stop believing that thin equals beautiful, successful, etc. It hurts more people than it helps. I'm still very easily triggered and I'm almost terrified to see people I used to know when I was at my lowest weight because of the dramatic change that has happened since. I'm perfectly healthy now at the weight I'm supposed to be (somewhere around 105 - 110) but I used to work with some EXTREMELY fatphobic people who I know would comment in a negative way and probably send me into another relapse. It's difficult to even turn on the TV sometimes because of the insane amount of weight loss ads that are on in seemingly every commercial break. It's sick.

[zbarnwell]

There are fast food restaurants located in every part of the globe. We must control what we eat instead of blaming restaurants, etc. on us becoming fat!

[Bone]

I think the societal obsession with thinness is a symptom of the obesity epidemic (or a greater cultural problem), not the other way around. The point behind this thread is that healthy weights should be promoted, rather than either extreme. You cannot be healthy while being either obese or severely underweight.

[NeoVix]

On point 3..

 

 

 

We acknowledge that someone who is anorexic is clearly not healthy at their size, and needs medical intervention, but we perpetuate the idea that a morbidly obese person could pursue an active lifestyle and remain at their size, and that saying otherwise would be “shaming” them.

 

Whilst I do agree that being obese is a problem and is clearly unhealthy, I see a huge difference between anorexia and obesity, in that society doesn't have a problem with anorexics receiving help for their condition, whereas when gastric bands and such are fitted there tends to be a massive hooha about it.. 'why should we pay because someones a greedy bastard' etc etc.

 

Obviously I am talking exclusively pf the UK here not America as I understand you have to pay for medical stuff.

 

I honestly don't believe people in general are accepting of obese people, just there are more obese people than ever so it seems that way. I still see the giggles and pointing and dirty looks and shouts of 'who ate all the pies' larger people get when they are out in public, so its definitely not accepted. On the other hand I also see the sympathetic looks and hear the 'poor girl' whispers when an anorexic (or someone who looks anorexic) is out in public.

 

In a lot of cases theres an underlying problem behind someone being obese. Often depression causes overeating for example. I think obesisty should (in the most part) be treat as seriously as anorexia is, and with as much sympathy. Afterall we don't know why Mary who lives on the corner of our street is 40 stone. Yeah she may just eat rubbish for no reason, or she may be ill...

Edited by Vicky87, 26 April 2015 - 05:35 AM.

[Eggie]

Something I've been seeing on the Internet lately bothers me a lot: I'm seeing HAES advocates take helpful images and mantras used in helping treat eating disorders and twisting them around to fit their own ideals. It feels like it invalidates something that can be extremely helpful to people who are ill and in recovery. A lot of these images and quotes are supposed to promote being HEALTHY, not that being morbidly obese is okay. There IS such a thing as too much.

 

We live in a society where obesity and overconsumption are becoming the new norm and it's scaring the crap out of me. I know you can't force people to change, but laying back and accepting it won't do jack shit.

[Inky]

Fat Acceptance is nothing other than people (specifically it is mostly women but not exclusively) wanting to "turn the tide" on the ideal body type because it's "too much work" to obtain, despite being healthy and what we should all strive for. What pisses me off even more than the "pro-fat" stuff is the "anti-thin" stance so many seem to take. They try to thin-shame people for no reason other than jealousy. It is laziness and greed that drive them to try and say fat is beautiful, plain and simple. People want to be seen as fertility goddesses just because they stuff their faces and don't want to stop.

 

Food can be addictive like anything else. But that doesn't mean we should glorify addictive & unhealthy lifestyles just because they're becoming more & more common. I also don't believe that taxpayer money should be used to give people gastric bypass or similar surgeries because that's not where the problem lies. It's not that their stomach is literally so large they HAVE to eat insane amounts of food. They get that way because of the addiction and that's what should be provided -- nutrition counseling, the same as we offer to people on the other end of the spectrum with eating disorders.

[NapisaurusRex]

There are fast food restaurants located in every part of the globe. We must control what we eat instead of blaming restaurants, etc. on us becoming fat!

Shit, and the only reason I was avoiding going to Antarctica was because of my misled notions that there wasn't a Taco Bell there. 

[pancakemachine]

honestly when I was in school I was fat and hated every day of it, wasn't until i started high school until i started working out a lot and lost nearly 80 pounds. I do think that we need to have more options available for kids so they can live healthy lifestyles. 

[Inky]

honestly when I was in school I was fat and hated every day of it, wasn't until i started high school until i started working out a lot and lost nearly 80 pounds. I do think that we need to have more options available for kids so they can live healthy lifestyles. 

 

Unfortunately, most obese children are not that way because of themselves, but because of their parents. They're fed junk and not taught healthy eating habits from a young age, and it can be really hard to change those habits even when you gain autonomy over your own food choices as you get older.

[Bear]

Deep down inside they all want to be skinny : )

[NapisaurusRex]

Deep down inside they all want to be skinny : )

You're just full of opinions today, aren't you?