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Vegetarianism


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#1 Tchi57

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 08:43 PM

Do you think the human race is needlessly killing animals for sustenance?

Dietary supplements are available for substituting vitamins/nutrients provided by meats, yet we continue butchering animals.

 

What exactly about meat produce do we humans find so appealing? 

People claim it simply "tastes good" - is this a justifiable reason for slaughtering animals? Is there a detachment between the murder of a pig vs. the murder of a human being?

 

How about economic efficiency? If the entirety of the human race were to convert to vegetarianism, how different would our economy be? Better? Worse?

 

-fight fight fight- 

:)

 

 



#2 Coops

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 08:52 PM

No, I do not think the human race needlessly kills animals for sustenance. As it stands now, without GMOs and our current food supply, we could not feed the entire Earth's population of humans. This is especially so because our population is increasing exponentially, at an alarming rate. It is not feasible to replace a food substance that basically all countries utilize to survive. In addition, there is overwhelming anthropological evidence that suggests without meat, humans may not have developed and evolved the way we did.

However, I do find the industry in the United States for meat deplorable (I cannot speak for other countries, because I am not aware). I still eat meat though, admittedly, out of convenience for myself and my family. I don't really have the money, time, patience or physical well-being to craft a tailored dietary plan that excludes an excellent source of proteins and fats. Vegetarianism is almost always done wrong - or rather, in a way that does not significantly benefit the health of the person engaging in vegetarianism. This is generally because they replace animal fats and proteins with carbohydrates found in pastas, breads, grains, etc. In many cases, vegans and vegetarians may unintentionally make their health worse, resulting in hypotonia, depression, weight gain, etc. This is not always the case and with significant research, intelligence and critical thinking, it can be avoided.

Be that as it may, I still think we can do better. We must utilize our compassion, empathy and intellect to craft better conditions for the animals we're going to eat. I don't think we should be torturing ducks to get foi gras. Chickens should have better living conditions prior to slaughter. You get the gist. 

I am not qualified really to offer any more information than what I've already said.


Edited by Coops, 23 August 2015 - 09:04 PM.


#3 Norava

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 09:17 PM

I feel like this whole debate stems from the fact that since we now "have a choice" to only eat plants, we should.

 

At the end of the day, if it was between growing a garden, or hunting and killing a pig to eat, I would choose the latter. I wouldn't murder a human being to eat, for the simple fact I don't want to. I have a conscience, and saying that killing a pig is like killing a human being is definitely the signs of a slippery slope.



#4 Coops

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 09:22 PM

I feel like this whole debate stems from the fact that since we now "have a choice" to only eat plants, we should.

 

At the end of the day, if it was between growing a garden, or hunting and killing a pig to eat, I would choose the latter. I wouldn't murder a human being to eat, for the simple fact I don't want to. I have a conscience, and saying that killing a pig is like killing a human being is definitely the signs of a slippery slope.

This is an excellent point that I forgot to mention. It's definitely a slippery slope. I'm not going to lie, I'm not sure I would be capable of slaughtering a pig in this societal context. If I were starving, yeah, I could do it. I do agree there is some emotional detachment, but there kind of needs to be. Otherwise, we aren't going to be able to feed the 7 billion fuckers on this planet. 



#5 Arex

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 09:53 PM

The act of killing animals was an instinct that humans in the past had. It's always going to be ingrained in our race and we can't do much about it.

I don't see an issue with eating animals as long as they are killed as painlessly as possible. That's not always the case though. I've seen animals raised in horrible conditions and abused for food. Despite the fact that I eat meat, I find this infuriating. I think the animals should at least get to live a good life if we're going to kill them in the end. Vegetarianism is also sometimes irritating, because people go vegetarian/vegan for all the wrong reasons. Yes, vegetables are good for you, but the protein that meat provides is still p beneficial to your health.

There's also going to be an issue with overpopulated animals. What are we going to do when the pigs have a bunch of sex and make a bunch of baby pigs that we can't eat because we're vegetarian? Where are these animals going to go when there are too many of them to fit on the planet?

Edited by Arex, 23 August 2015 - 09:55 PM.


#6 Shane

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 11:31 PM

This is an excellent point that I forgot to mention. It's definitely a slippery slope. I'm not going to lie, I'm not sure I would be capable of slaughtering a pig in this societal context. If I were starving, yeah, I could do it. I do agree there is some emotional detachment, but there kind of needs to be. Otherwise, we aren't going to be able to feed the 7 billion fuckers on this planet. 

Slippery Slopes are a fallacy.



#7 GumCuzzler

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 02:33 AM

The act of killing animals was an instinct that humans in the past had. It's always going to be ingrained in our race and we can't do much about it.
 

 

Bullshit



#8 Sweeney

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 02:54 AM

If we stop eating the domesticated animals we currently eat, then they will all die, except a few that nostalgic people will raise themselves.

#9 Grumpy

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 05:50 PM

Vegetarianism won't save the world, if that's the goal people are after.

 

http://www.theguardi...m-deforestation

 

What is important, though, is that we raise and slaughter animals humanely - and that is what is severely lacking.



#10 Padme

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 06:29 PM

If we stop eating the domesticated animals we currently eat, then they will all die, except a few that nostalgic people will raise themselves.

 

I dibs the pigs.



#11 ortin

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 06:53 PM

Dietary supplements suck. Let's take vitamin pills as an example: Vitamin E has two enantiomers, which are left and right handed versions of the molecule. Only one has any affect in the human body, and while human enzymes can consistently produce the proper enantiomer, synthetic production produces roughly equal amounts of both enantiomers. What this means is that half of all synthetic Vitamin E is absolutely worthless! Furthermore, the human body cannot absorb vitamins from vitamin pills very efficiently, so a large majority just leaves the body via urine. The natural way is really the best way to get your nutrients. 



#12 KyloRen

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 07:04 PM

I'm fine with people eating animals as long as the animals are killed humanely. I don't think we're needlessly killing animals for sustenance. I know we have vitamin pills and all, but as was already said, vitamin pills sometimes can not be absorbed by the human body very effectively. The human body needs iron, and iron mainly comes in the form of meat, and while vitamins can have iron in them, again as was already said, they sometimes can not be absorbed effectively. 

 

As for why people find meat appealing, I have no idea. Meat tastes awful to me.

 

As for the economic issues, I'm not really sure on that. I mean, I think it may cost more to raise an animal to eat, than it would to grow some wheat.... However if people only ate vegetarian, there's a problem with fertile land to grow it on. You can't just keep growing food in the same area for years on end, you have to rotate your crops. If the entire worlds population is eating nothing but plants, wouldn't we eventually run out of room to be able to rotate the crops on? As in, we'd grow wheat in some place, but because we have to grow enough for the entire population of the world, after a while we wouldn't have anywhere to grow new wheat as we would have to let the ground sort of "reset" itself with the crop rotations, and we'd have already used the rest of the land to grow wheat and we'd have to wait for that land to "reset" itself. And while we wait for that to happen, there wouldn't be any place to grow food that would grow enough for the entire population. We could grow the food in indoor gardens, but I don't believe that the food would grow as well inside with artificial lamps and such as it would out in the natural open. 



#13 Sweeney

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 04:21 PM

I'm fine with people eating animals as long as the animals are killed humanely. I don't think we're needlessly killing animals for sustenance. I know we have vitamin pills and all, but as was already said, vitamin pills sometimes can not be absorbed by the human body very effectively. The human body needs iron, and iron mainly comes in the form of meat, and while vitamins can have iron in them, again as was already said, they sometimes can not be absorbed effectively. 
 
As for why people find meat appealing, I have no idea. Meat tastes awful to me.
 
As for the economic issues, I'm not really sure on that. I mean, I think it may cost more to raise an animal to eat, than it would to grow some wheat.... However if people only ate vegetarian, there's a problem with fertile land to grow it on. You can't just keep growing food in the same area for years on end, you have to rotate your crops. If the entire worlds population is eating nothing but plants, wouldn't we eventually run out of room to be able to rotate the crops on? As in, we'd grow wheat in some place, but because we have to grow enough for the entire population of the world, after a while we wouldn't have anywhere to grow new wheat as we would have to let the ground sort of "reset" itself with the crop rotations, and we'd have already used the rest of the land to grow wheat and we'd have to wait for that land to "reset" itself. And while we wait for that to happen, there wouldn't be any place to grow food that would grow enough for the entire population. We could grow the food in indoor gardens, but I don't believe that the food would grow as well inside with artificial lamps and such as it would out in the natural open.


We don't have enough room to feed the Earth's population adequately period.

#14 redlion

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 05:27 PM

I think fifty years ago we thought that isolating proteins was going to do away with world hunger. Then it was dwarf wheat. GMOs. World hunger has more to do with people's desires to have kids to support them in old age than it does with producing food. World population has doubled in forty years. The problem there is demographic - it's not evenly distributed, it's all in developing countries.

That debate is solidly separate from the vegetarianism debate. I don't like calling butchering murder. I don't eat meat, but come on; animals kill animals all the time. You wouldn't say your pet snake is murdering crickets or whatever. Death is a normal part of every animal's life cycle. The manner in which we bring about that end can be humane or inhumane, but death itself is a natural byproduct of once being alive. Butchering animals can be done humanely. But most of the time it isn't.

In the end, our respect for the animal is what matters. The intent should be to raise only what you need, but we produce and waste plenty of animals in the name of factory farming. Most people nowadays eat pork and chicken and beef without ever being exposed to live cattle, dead cattle, slaughterhouses or whatever. Industrialized slaughter is rightfully disturbing. I think if it wasn't hidden away, we might all eat less of it. We might demand the same kind of quality assurances we're demanding of organic goods. I wouldn't have such a problem with the meat producing industries if that were the case.

I took a course on the Philosophy of Food (I'm not joking, instructor's name is Kaplan, look up his book of the same title) and I mean the waste. Most pork factory farms lose dozens of animals a night. And by lose I mean they die of disease, exhaustion or overheating and then cannot be sold. But it's okay because the abysmal conditions they're kept in means the overhead is low enough to bring you affordable meat despite the losses.

I'm not saying that cows and chickens shouldn't be raised for eating, but the least we can do is not "dock" their tails, clip their beaks, tag their ears, etc. Life is suffering - true. But we shouldn't bring more suffering into the world than we absolutely have to.


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