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#51 Bones

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 03:00 AM

oh and best picture I found on FB today so far is this one

BKeKXZnCUAAOXpC.jpg

 

A very awkward moment when a camera man gets his BGs messed up :p



#52 Ali

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 03:06 AM

Labour MPs have submitted a motion of no confidence in Corbyn.

#53 Marionette

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 03:45 AM

normaly I would not amend something someone has posted but felt I should just for info basis:

 

 

just for your info it was not Farage who stated "all" the money would go back into the NHS it was other leave members who did this.  He has stated this morning they where wrong to use this campaign and that he did not agree with the statement "all" he said he would think it would be in the region of 80-100m but that it was not upto him but the leader or new leader of the conservatives to decide this.

 

Anyways not a fan of Farage but just thought I would amend your info there as it is being reported wrongly on social media.  I happened to be awake when Farage had this live interview where the was stated so know what was actualy said and also the interveiwer was trying to lead him into a mistake but did not get anything.

 

Oops, my mistake! I think I'm naturally inclined to hear his name and immediately believe the worst.



#54 Bones

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 04:17 AM

^im totally with you god forbid if he ever ran this country.

 

Edit:

 

No need to run off into the woods and chase the faeries down just yet.....

 

 

The FTSE 100 London stock market is down just over 4%. The pound has stabilised

#yup



#55 Waser Lave

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 07:13 AM

I honestly never expected the Leave vote to win so I was devastated this morning when I found out and have had a feeling all day which I'm pretty sure could be accurately described as 'dread'. It's mostly the uncertainty and not having a clue what's about to happen to us which I'm very anxious about, especially considering we could now be left with Boris Johnson or Michael Gove as Prime Minister (two people I despise immensely). I don't like Cameron at all but if it's a choice between him and anybody from the Leave campaign then I'd take Cameron any time. I'm just hoping that the oil price stays low now to ward off a potential Scottish referendum in the near future. :/ Leaving the EU is going to do nothing to limit immigration because we'll end up having to sign up to free movement to access the single market and we'll also have to pay for the privilege as Norway etc do already. Urgh, small-minded fucking bigots have put us in a situation where we've pissed off a trade behemoth on our doorstep and we (the younger, working generations) now need to compete with that while pensions will still be going up at least 2.5% every single year regardless of what happens to the economy, a massive housing shortage continues, mortgages and rents continue to rise, wages continue to stagnate and there's huge uncertainty in employment...

 

At work we do a lot of business in Europe so we have nearly 100 non-UK EU nationals in the office, a lot of them have been really worried today and it's horrible to see. The CEO had to send an email effectively saying "we have no idea what's going to happen but you're probably got another 2 years without any visa issues, we'll look at it again then".

 

Labour MPs have submitted a motion of no confidence in Corbyn.

 

This is one of only two positives I've managed to think of today, I've never liked Corbyn and couldn't picture myself voting for him in an election even though I've always been a Labour voter. The other positive being that bank shares are effectively having a 20% off sale today and I'm tempted to stock up a bit, must be horrendous for people working in finance today though. Share prices have held up surprisingly well so far considering, I was expecting a massacre.



#56 Emily

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 07:48 AM

Today was not a good day to call HSBC. I was on hold FOREVER.

 

Meanwhile, Donald Trump is in Scotland trying to promote his failing golf courses and he has praised the whole thing. Using it to back up his own campaign. Just wonderful.  :rolleyes:



#57 ortin

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:10 AM

How are any of his points valid?

 

tumblr_nnf9orItl91tvf9p0o9_400.gif

He makes a few key points. Do you dispute them?

  • The EU's interests are split between serving it's member countries and broadening it's scope into new countries
  • Bills drafted by lobbyists are a problem. The U.S. has issues with lobbyists having too much influence on the legislation making process, but the EU takes it to another level. The EU is corrupt
  • Britain leaving the EU would damage the EU and cause change
  • This issue is made overly complex by the media, perhaps to confuse the average citizen and intimidate them into not getting informed

I however do not agree on his final point that Britain leaving the EU would cause the EU to change for the better. This is his weakest point, and is certainly up to debate. I think that the EU will change and fall apart if other countries leave, but the organization that replaces it will have just as many problems if not more. It is a far cry to think that this badly made decision will cause positive change. 

 

Now, I shall further elucidate my position on this issue, because @Ali took my argument and morphed it into a straw man, intentionally or not, and wrongly assumed my scope of knowledge on the issue. I believe that Britain leaving will either cause a lot of harm or change not too much, depending on if other countries decide to leave as well. First, let's take a look at the best case scenario. If the other nations do not leave the EU and it's integrity is not weakened, then nothing much will change. Britain will still have to abide by many EU regulations in order to trade with EU countries. In fact, Britain will have to pay about the same amount of money to reform their laws to conform with EU regulations and provide EU benefits as they did pay the EU in taxes. Britain has a strong economy, and while it will take a hit, it would only be in the short run, assuming other countries don't leave the EU.

 

However, the risk of the EU falling apart is too big! This is pretty likely, as Scotland and Greece are already looking to leave. The world market will crash if other countries start to leave, which is bad for everyone globally. Britain would not have to abide by EU regulations, which are very pro-workers, if it falls apart, leading to @Ali's dramatic concerns. This is why I firmly think that the Remain side was correct, and Britain's young people are probably screwed.

 

As with all controversial issues, there is sticky grey area. It is pretentious and stupid to assume that the issue is as black and white as many people here think. 



#58 Waser Lave

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:25 AM

However, the risk of the EU falling apart is too big! This is pretty likely, as Scotland and Greece are already looking to leave. The world market will crash if other countries start to leave, which is bad for everyone globally. Britain would not have to abide by EU regulations, which are very pro-workers, if it falls apart, leading to @Ali's dramatic concerns. This is why I firmly think that the Remain side was correct, and Britain's young people are probably screwed.

 

Scotland isn't looking to leave the EU at all, it wants to join the EU as a nation independent from the rest of the UK... I don't think that's a situation which will happen any time soon though. Greece could possibly leave the EU (and that might not necessarily be a bad thing for either party given Greece's recent economic struggles) but I think the EU has put so much effort and money into keeping Greece in that it's not terribly likely to happen either.



#59 Padme

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:30 AM

So much Redducation I can't comprehend.
So much false rhetoric spread around.

#60 ortin

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:33 AM

So much Redducation I can't comprehend.
So much false rhetoric spread around.

You know you could to inform me of why you think this rhetoric is false :p That would probably be more constructive than moaning about it. 



#61 Romy

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:36 AM

So much Redducation I can't comprehend.
So much false rhetoric spread around.

As someone that isn't well versed in European politics/economics, could you elaborate on what rhetoric is false and why? 



#62 Bones

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:04 AM

The thing with politics is you can never please everyone, as iv said before all you can do is put a X in a box and then accept the outcome.  As a leaver I would have accepted if the IN campaign had won but I do understand why ppl are upset and concerned it is a life changing event but then wasn't joining the EU in the first place as well.

 

My main reason for voting leave was 1) obtaining the ability to make our own laws and being able to do something about the ppl making them 2) and this is the main reason, I really feel (and a lot of ppl in my sector feel) that the EU is failing do I want to be in it to the end when it does, hell no I would rather exit a ship on rocks then wait for it to sink.

 

Anyways time will tell we can but see what happens.

 

Also I totally agree LW mate the out for runners are rubbish and I worry to see who will come to the for front to lead this country.



#63 Padme

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:13 AM

You know you could to inform me of why you think this rhetoric is false :p That would probably be more constructive than moaning about it.


Did I say you or your post? Nope. Do I take issue with things you post? Ya. I've never been afraid to tag anybody if I have an issue. My issue here is bigger than your posts.
In general, this entire issue I have seen false shit spread around through memes and popular internet posts. This is an issue in every major event now. It's constantly an issue but it is a massive problem when you have individuals voting. People are making a decision off of false information or misrepresentation of information.

People voting off of hearing things like 'the UK bails everyone out' or 'omg there's too many immigrants in London' and 'Britain isn't even English anymore.' Perhaps there are grains of truth in those sentiments but the issue is a LOT more comprehensive than any one of those statements.

im not moaning at all. You make me groan more than I am comfortable with though.

#64 NeoVix

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:41 AM

Gutted with the result tbh. Even more gutted when it seems so many voted simply because of immigration, which is unlikely to change and benefits our country generally anyway. I saw someone on facebook yesterday saying they voted out because they dont like paying taxes? WTF. A referendum on a decision as big as this was not a good idea IMO. Especially given both campaigns were just scare tactics anyway so not many people have actually made an informed vote and don't seem to actually know what they were voting for.



#65 Ali

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:50 AM

http://www.standard....-a3280361.html#

#66 Waser Lave

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:55 AM

Gutted with the result tbh. Even more gutted when it seems so many voted simply because of immigration, which is unlikely to change and benefits our country generally anyway. I saw someone on facebook yesterday saying they voted out because they dont like paying taxes? WTF. A referendum on a decision as big as this was not a good idea IMO. Especially given both campaigns were just scare tactics anyway so not many people have actually made an informed vote and don't seem to actually know what they were voting for.

 

This is the main problem, many people just don't understand the issues involved and end up being duped into voting a particular way by politicians pushing populist agendas like immigration or the NHS. In some areas of the country where they've had a large rise in migration and the social changes which come with it (like Boston, for example) it's understandable that they'd vote Leave because of immigration but many places who state that immigration is a problem are barely impacted by immigration at all...


 

It's scary to me how ignorant those people are.



#67 ortin

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:58 AM

 

 

http://www.standard....-a3280361.html#

:boxed:

These people are literally retarded. 

Semi related: Does anyone remember when I said I would vote for Donald Trump since my vote didn't counted? I have long since changed my mind, my vote will actually matter. I thought Trump was a joke, seems like I underestimated him. 



#68 NeoVix

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:02 AM

Why would you vote at all if you were only doing so thinking your vote wouldn't count?! Thats insane.



#69 ortin

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:05 AM

Why would you vote at all if you were only doing so thinking your vote wouldn't count?! Thats insane.

Added to the fact that polls were super tight leading up to it, indicating that every vote counts more than ever. 



#70 NeoVix

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:06 AM

I am also quite annoyed that it seems the OAP vote trumped the wishes of the younger voters. Of course they should have a say, but we are the ones it is going to affect for the rest of our lives, which statistically will be a lot longer than they have to put up with it if it goes wrong. Then we have those moaning who didn't even bother to vote themselves. And I simply cannot believe that people are naive (or stupid?) enough to believe things such as 'the 350m per week saved will go to the NHS'...of course it will, and has already been backtracked just hours after the voting closed. Some people voted to get rid of Cameron...which has worked but the time for that is in the general election, you do not fuck about with something this big just because you don't like the PM.



#71 Mishelle

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:12 AM

He makes a few key points. Do you dispute them?

  • The EU's interests are split between serving it's member countries and broadening it's scope into new countries
  • Bills drafted by lobbyists are a problem. The U.S. has issues with lobbyists having too much influence on the legislation making process, but the EU takes it to another level. The EU is corrupt
  • Britain leaving the EU would damage the EU and cause change
  • This issue is made overly complex by the media, perhaps to confuse the average citizen and intimidate them into not getting informed

I however do not agree on his final point that Britain leaving the EU would cause the EU to change for the better. This is his weakest point, and is certainly up to debate. I think that the EU will change and fall apart if other countries leave, but the organization that replaces it will have just as many problems if not more. It is a far cry to think that this badly made decision will cause positive change. 

 

Now, I shall further elucidate my position on this issue, because @Ali took my argument and morphed it into a straw man, intentionally or not, and wrongly assumed my scope of knowledge on the issue. I believe that Britain leaving will either cause a lot of harm or change not too much, depending on if other countries decide to leave as well. First, let's take a look at the best case scenario. If the other nations do not leave the EU and it's integrity is not weakened, then nothing much will change. Britain will still have to abide by many EU regulations in order to trade with EU countries. In fact, Britain will have to pay about the same amount of money to reform their laws to conform with EU regulations and provide EU benefits as they did pay the EU in taxes. Britain has a strong economy, and while it will take a hit, it would only be in the short run, assuming other countries don't leave the EU.

 

However, the risk of the EU falling apart is too big! This is pretty likely, as Scotland and Greece are already looking to leave. The world market will crash if other countries start to leave, which is bad for everyone globally. Britain would not have to abide by EU regulations, which are very pro-workers, if it falls apart, leading to @Ali's dramatic concerns. This is why I firmly think that the Remain side was correct, and Britain's young people are probably screwed.

 

As with all controversial issues, there is sticky grey area. It is pretentious and stupid to assume that the issue is as black and white as many people here think. 

 

Scotland is looking for a referendum to leave the UK because they want to stay in the EU. There are also talks of Northern Ireland wanting to join the Republic of Ireland so they too can stay with the EU. Other countries who have called for referendums to leave the EU (Italy, France, Holland, etc) are all being driven by far right parties who are using the same xenophobic rhetoric that was spread about during the UK referendum. So even if the EU does make reforms that are clearly needed, how is that going to fix the problem of intense anti-immigrant xenophobia? Also I don't think it's fair to call anyone's concerns dramatic especially since absolutely no one has any idea what's going to happen with this, no one knows what the economic consequences of this is going to be, and no one knows how this is going to impact their way of life, except everyone pretty much agrees that they're not going to come out of this better than they were before.



#72 Coops

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:15 AM

My best friend in Wales is fucking heartbroken over this. I'm legitimately afraid for her and my other friends abroad. :/



#73 Emily

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:16 AM

https://www.washingt...ng-to-leave-it/

 

All I can do is shake my head. 



#74 ortin

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:18 AM

Also I don't think it's fair to call anyone's concerns dramatic especially since absolutely no one has any idea what's going to happen with this, no one knows what the economic consequences of this is going to be, and no one knows how this is going to impact their way of life, except everyone pretty much agrees that they're not going to come out of this better than they were before.

This seems to be a common point of misunderstanding. When I called her concerns dramatic, I meant that in the most literal sense, and in the context of that it is true. There will be dramatic and long lasting effects on Europe and the world if the EU falls apart. That is what I'm trying to say, not trying to belittle the points brought up which I have already said I agree with. 



#75 Waser Lave

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 10:18 AM

I am also quite annoyed that it seems the OAP vote trumped the wishes of the younger voters. Of course they should have a say, but we are the ones it is going to affect for the rest of our lives, which statistically will be a lot longer than they have to put up with it if it goes wrong. Then we have those moaning who didn't even bother to vote themselves. And I simply cannot believe that people are naive (or stupid?) enough to believe things such as 'the 350m per week saved will go to the NHS'...of course it will, and has already been backtracked just hours after the voting closed. Some people voted to get rid of Cameron...which has worked but the time for that is in the general election, you do not fuck about with something this big just because you don't like the PM.

 

As a data whore I'm glad that the BBC did a good job in their data visualisations:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-36616028

 

1sfkdjQ.png

 

Give it 15-20 years and a significant proportion of Leave voters will have shuffled off this mortal coil and maybe we can have another referendum to rejoin.





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