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#1 CaptainDantes

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:28 PM

Have you guys been following this election? Do you believe Trump is good or bad for america - and would you vote for him? Why or why not?

 

(And I choose Trump to chat about over Clinton because he seems to be the most polarizing).

 

Spoiler

Edited by CaptainDantes, 03 July 2016 - 08:31 PM.


#2 Kitty

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:34 PM

That poor cat.. having to have hair like that.. poor dear.

 

nupe no trump for me. I might just not vote :C



#3 SheOfTheEnderworld

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:44 PM

I'm no Trump fan, but I am just as equally not a Hillary fan. This whole election cycle sucks.



#4 Nonexistent

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:46 PM

america is such a mess



#5 Romy

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:50 PM

nupe no trump for me. I might just not vote :C

Not liking the presidential candidates is not good enough of a reason to not vote.

 

You can still go vote for your local senators (which arguably have more influence on your life.)

Your vote has power. Use it.



#6 SheOfTheEnderworld

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:53 PM

Not liking the presidential candidates is not good enough of a reason to not vote.

 

You can still go vote for your local senators (which arguably have more influence on your life.)

Your vote has power. Use it.

 

Fuck yes, nice post Romy...and that is exactly what I plan to do.



#7 CaptainDantes

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:54 PM

Not liking the presidential candidates is not good enough of a reason to not vote.

 

You can still go vote for your local senators (which arguably have more influence on your life.)

Your vote has power. Use it.

 

Agreed. Just look at Brexit - a ton of people either didn't vote or didn't take their vote seriously and regretted it after the results came out.



#8 Generic

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:59 PM

I feel like the general consensus is that both options suck for different reasons. Honestly it's pretty ridiculous there's only two bad options that have any chance whatsoever. Political systems in general are often broken.

I'm Canadian anyway, so... good luck with the elections thing. Try not to start any major wars or anything if Trump wins.

#9 SheOfTheEnderworld

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:00 PM

I feel like the general consensus is that both options suck for different reasons. Honestly it's pretty ridiculous there's only two bad options that have any chance whatsoever. Political systems in general are often broken.

I'm Canadian anyway, so... good luck with the elections thing. Try not to start any major wars or anything if Trump wins.

 

You can equally revise your statement to be "Try not to start any major wars or anything if Clinton wins." ;)



#10 Junjie

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:00 PM

I'm not sure what to think of Trump. I was amazed by the way he ran rings around everyone for the Republican primaries - whether it was the Republican establishment, Republican voters, Fox News, other media, or like, the American public itself.

I have absolutely no idea how he would be running things however. It's one thing to run businesses (and he has had his fair share of bankrupt businesses, though that's arguably par for the course for the range of businesses he's doing). But another to like, run the country. And it's obviously very different from the media manipulation/grandstanding/playing to crowds thing he did to get to this stage.

#11 Nonexistent

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:06 PM

Agreed. Just look at Brexit - a ton of people either didn't vote or didn't take their vote seriously and regretted it after the results came out.

i think "regret" wouldn't even come close to describing the election votes, more like "hopeless", as regardless who is voted in both suck

 

 

I'm not sure what to think of Trump. I was amazed by the way he ran rings around everyone for the Republican primaries - whether it was the Republican establishment, Republican voters, Fox News, other media, or like, the American public itself.

I have absolutely no idea how he would be running things however. It's one thing to run businesses (and he has had his fair share of bankrupt businesses, though that's arguably par for the course for the range of businesses he's doing). But another to like, run the country. And it's obviously very different from the media manipulation/grandstanding/playing to crowds thing he did to get to this stage.

 

thats the thing too, clinton will run the country for power, trump will run the country for money, but whos gonna run the country for ethics and the people



#12 CaptainDantes

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:16 PM

And it's obviously very different from the media manipulation/grandstanding/playing to crowds thing he did to get to this stage.

 

I feel like that's all he's done. I've listened to many of his speeches and actually thought I might vote for him at first. But then I realized he really hasn't said ANYthing. I've been searching and he hasn't laid out any plans except the generic "defeat ISIS," "Build a wall," and literally calling people names. The closest he's come to actually explaining any of it is saying "Believe me. It will be the best. Believe me." I've listened to him speak on many occasions and he constantly changes his opinion to suit his audience. Over and over he back-tracks and flip-flops so much any normal politician would be ruined. Personally - I do believe has has racist and misogynistic undertones to many of the things he says and posts to twitter and it gives me a bad feeling in my gut. Not to mention - the way he uses his media coverage to promote his own businesses makes him look like a slime ball to me.

 

I don't think that he's wrong about the wall. Any country has a right to protect its borders - and these people are coming in illegally. But I don't think he really understands that making Mexico pay for the wall will probably fail. He keeps bringing up trade and commerce as the reason Mexico will pay, but I feel like if we stop all trade with them Americans will be pissed at how many products we wouldn't have or angry at the inflated prices. 



#13 Junjie

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:32 PM

I feel like that's all he's done. I've listened to many of his speeches and actually thought I might vote for him at first. But then I realized he really hasn't said ANYthing. I've been searching and he hasn't laid out any plans except the generic "defeat ISIS," "Build a wall," and literally calling people names. The closest he's come to actually explaining any of it is saying "Believe me. It will be the best. Believe me." I've listened to him speak on many occasions and he constantly changes his opinion to suit his audience. Over and over he back-tracks and flip-flops so much any normal politician would be ruined. Personally - I do believe has has racist and misogynistic undertones to many of the things he says and posts to twitter and it gives me a bad feeling in my gut. Not to mention - the way he uses his media coverage to promote his own businesses makes him look like a slime ball to me.
 
I don't think that he's wrong about the wall. Any country has a right to protect its borders - and these people are coming in illegally. But I don't think he really understands that making Mexico pay for the wall will probably fail. He keeps bringing up trade and commerce as the reason Mexico will pay, but I feel like if we stop all trade with them Americans will be pissed at how many products we wouldn't have or angry at the inflated prices.


I've been following a series of blog posts on this, by Scott Adams (yes, the creator of Dilbert). Adams is apparently a "trained hypotist", and describes what Trump is doing as "persuasion skills" of a very high level. Apparently, the thing about not actually giving any concrete info, and not establishing any concrete unchanging policy statements, is 100% deliberate and designed just for electioneering.

Here's an index Adams created a while back about this series of blog posts. It's a bit outdated by this point (it only goes to mid-February this year, while he makes blog posts on this every few days), but still a fascinating read on this topic I think:
http://blog.dilbert....nd-reading-list

#14 vendetta.inc

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:40 PM

Eh I'm with @Generic - Canadian guy living and working in the USA. I'm very indifferent to politics, whether Canadian or American.

 

All I know is that there is a voting system. Majority rules, and whether or not anyone likes it, Clinton and Trump are the respective nominees through a democratic process. We can debate about persuasion, legacy, manipulation, etc. Reality is, these two candidates were voted into this position by the voters of their political party. Maybe the democratic system is flawed - but it's the same system our grandparents (or beyond) fought for, so that's what we're living with now. I just don't understand how everyone is so unhappy with the two candidates, yet they were voted in by the country. If you're not happy, vote for the other party, or vote libertarian, or write in a vote, or hell - don't vote at all. But the system is the system, and it's what it is.

 

EDIT: My two cents on the wall issue: talk to any uninfluenced business person or economist. Stopping the flow of immigrants, legal or illegal, - whether from Mexico, other countries in Latin America, or from overseas - would cripple the American (or Canadian - not trying to make this sound biased) economy. There is certainly an argument to made regarding the protection of our borders, but if you want to make that argument, please put yourself in the position of a consumer who relies, or simply wants, the services that immigrants - legal or illegal - provide to the economy. There's patriotism, and there's consumerism - we can't have one without the other. 


Edited by vendetta.inc, 03 July 2016 - 09:47 PM.


#15 Junjie

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:51 PM

Eh I'm with @Generic - Canadian guy living and working in the USA. I'm very indifferent to politics, whether Canadian or American.
 
All I know is that there is a voting system. Majority rules, and whether or not anyone likes it, Clinton and Trump are the respective nominees through a democratic process. We can debate about persuasion, legacy, manipulation, etc. Reality is, these two candidates were voted into this position by the voters of their political party. Maybe the democratic system is flawed - but it's the same system our grandparents (or beyond) fought for, so that's what we're living with now. I just don't understand how everyone is so unhappy with the two candidates, yet they were voted in by the country. If you're not happy, vote for the other party, or vote libertarian, or write in a vote, or hell - don't vote at all. But the system is the system, and it's what it is.


I didn't exactly express unhappiness, though? Just mentioned the stuff Trump did/has been doing. Which, like, he totally did you know.

And also. I do think this thread is totally made to debate about this, so I'm not sure why you're like, posting here to say people should just live with the system. That's what General Debate is for right, debating the system as well? xD

#16 vendetta.inc

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:56 PM

I didn't exactly express unhappiness, though? Just mentioned the stuff Trump did/has been doing. Which, like, he totally did you know.

And also. I do think this thread is totally made to debate about this, so I'm not sure why you're like, posting here to say people should just live with the system. That's what General Debate is for right, debating the system as well? xD

I wasn't responding directly to you, but I get your side of things. 

 

My point is this. We voted these two candidates in. If the debate is about why they were voted in, I think it is a moot point. Debating about whether Trump is better than Clinton - sure. That's what the process is, and I'm all for that. We'll all have our chance to vote in a few months. 



#17 CaptainDantes

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:59 PM

 If you're not happy, vote for the other party, or vote libertarian, or write in a vote, or hell - don't vote at all. But the system is the system, and it's what it is.

 

 

I guess @HiMyNameIsJunjie is right - this isn't the debate. However, in the US the political parties themselves have much more control over who their nominee is than the general public. When running to be the Republican or Democratic nominee there are "superdelegates" that can vote how they want to vote - I don't understand any further than that haha. But there were many instances when Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton in a state popular vote, but Clinton still got more points because more superdelegates voted for her. So that's another thing to debate for another time :p



#18 Generic

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:13 PM

You can equally revise your statement to be "Try not to start any major wars or anything if Clinton wins." ;)


Very fair point. I don't really trust either of them whatsoever. I was tentatively one of those Bernie fanboys, but when it comes down to it I was certain Clinton would beat him out, and I'm not sure he'd be a good fit as president for the USA anyway. He's way too polar opposite from people like Trump who apparently have an enormous following.

If this election was in Canada, I'm fairly certain Trump would have a much smaller but equally devoted following, Clinton would have had a solid following as being the "first woman prime minister" but Bernie would ultimately win. I mean, he's got a ton in common with our current PM, so he'd be a natural fit. I mean damn, literally 95% of (Canadian) people I know were in favour of Bernie. But in the US? Eh...

#19 CaptainDantes

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 06:25 AM

@Generic - so odd how we can live so close, have so much in common culturally, but go very different directions politically.

#20 Swim

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 06:29 AM

As a Canadian 

I don't know too much about him

But by overhearing some of the things he says is making me smh

I feel bad for Americans if he is elected

At least Hillary seems somewhat reasonable



#21 FelisNoctua

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 06:44 AM

Have you guys been following this election? Do you believe Trump is good or bad for america - and would you vote for him? Why or why not?

 

I think Trump is the worst option possible, because he's completely unqualified. I'm fine that he's not a career politician, I'm not fine that he's the epitome of a circus. He has NO political platform, just a bunch of racism, misogyny, and misplaced patriotism. We need people who can have rational, calm, diplomatic conversations with the leaders of other nations, and this guy is the opposite of all those things. We'd be better off with a car salesman.

 

Basically, everything eloquently said in  @CaptainDantes's  (12) and @HiMyNameIsJunjie's (13) posts. He hasn't said ANYTHING to make me believe he has the basic qualifications to run a country. He's the guy that talks you into letting him ride his motorcycle, because of course he can obviously ride a motorcycle (didn't you see how awesome he was at this other unrelated thing) and then road-rashes all the paint off your Indian.

This is going to be USA, if he wins:

Spoiler

 

(LOL Found this and have to add it).

Alternately, if Bernie were president, This would be the USA*:

Spoiler


@Generic - so odd how we can live so close, have so much in common culturally, but go very different directions politically.

 

Maybe it's geographical? The USA is the "South" of North America. :p


Edited by FelisNoctua, 04 July 2016 - 06:42 AM.


#22 Xwiint

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 09:01 AM

I really think it says something that if all we wanted in a good President was that they were a decent, rational person, neither of the main candidates would be in the running. I understand that playing politics makes your morals a little more flexible than most people's (compromise is, after all, the heart of our politics), but the amount of backstabbing and bribes just seems to go way further than anything I feel comfortable with.



#23 CaptainDantes

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 09:29 AM

I really think it says something that if all we wanted in a good President was that they were a decent, rational person, neither of the main candidates would be in the running. I understand that playing politics makes your morals a little more flexible than most people's (compromise is, after all, the heart of our politics), but the amount of backstabbing and bribes just seems to go way further than anything I feel comfortable with.

 

For real. I hate how much money there is in politics.



#24 UnicornSoul

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 10:58 AM

I hate Trump... I hate Hillary

 

 

 

Go Bernie Sanders!

 

Just my two cents, for what it's worth!


https://www.facebook...16448935049630/

 

This link is a 5 minute video and in it, it describes why the wall is a horrible idea... if anyone is curious... it's a good watch and it is describing why Trumps ideas aren't good ideas.


I think Trump is the worst option possible, because he's completely unqualified. I'm fine that he's not a career politician, I'm not fine that he's the epitome of a circus. He has NO political platform, just a bunch of racism, misogyny, and misplaced patriotism. We need people who can have rational, calm, diplomatic conversations with the leaders of other nations, and this guy is the opposite of all those things. We'd be better off with a car salesman.

 

Basically, everything eloquently said in  @CaptainDantes's  (12) and @HiMyNameIsJunjie's (13) posts. He hasn't said ANYTHING to make me believe he has the basic qualifications to run a country. He's the guy that talks you into letting him ride his motorcycle, because of course he can obviously ride a motorcycle (didn't you see how awesome he was at this other unrelated thing) and then road-rashes all the paint off your Indian.

This is going to be USA, if he wins:

Spoiler

 

(LOL Found this and have to add it).

Alternately, if Bernie were president, This would be the USA*:

Spoiler


 

Maybe it's geographical? The USA is the "South" of North America. :p

 

Hahaha I like what the world would look like if Bernie won! We need more rainbows in this world!



#25 Amethyst

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 12:09 PM

No, I don't like him.

But Hilary actually scares me so I mean, lesser of two evils here.

 

And I highly doubt Bernie is gonna make it, iirc he actually said himself he doesn't think he'll get it. Not the biggest fan ever of him either. But what are you gonna do?

 

I didn't like anyone who's dropped out either.

Everyone this time has just been terrible.




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