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Mother Teresa canonisation


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#1 Katya

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 06:30 AM

498063-mother-teresa-getty.jpg

 
 
To anyone unaware of this, Mother Teresa was canonised today by Pope Francis. 
 
For some religious people this women is a Saint, dedicated her life to help the poor, sick and dying through the congregation she founded in 1950 Missions of Charity. According to her Wikipedia page "By 1996, Mother Teresa was operating 517 missions in more than 100 countries."
But to anyone that dig into her life more may find some discrepancies in her vision of how the poor, sick and dying should be helped. Despite the fact that her Missions of Charity received monetary donations from all over the world to help its cause, it's a known fact that Teresa systematically refused giving treatment to the ones in need, and food to the ones starving, as well as perpetuating the poor conditions in the charity houses for the dying ones, stating that suffer must be taken as a gift of God.
On the other hand, when she found herself suffering from her second heart attack in 1998, she received a pacemaker. In 1996, after the failure of the left ventricle, she had another heart surgery. Not practicing what she preach about accepting the suffering and going as far as being hypocrite for seeking treatment for her conditions when she was refusing basic health care to the "poorest of the poor".
 

She's also well known for the miracles she, allegedly, preformed after her death.
The first one was on a woman from Bengal. One year after Teresa's death, Monica Besra was living in a charity house from the Missions of Charity, for being a sick women suffering from an abdominal tumour. But she was miraculously cured when, after feeling "a beam of light emanating from a photo of Teresa" the sisters from the congregation put a locket with Teresa's pic over Monica's waste and prayed. The morning after, Monica was tumour free.
However, medical staff that had been treating Monica for almost a year was firm in their statements saying she was not suffering from a tumour but a cyst, and the medication she was taking was the cause for the cure.
"Besra's medical records contain sonograms, prescriptions, and physicians' notes: Besra has claimed that Sister Betta of the Missionaries of Charity is withholding them. The officials at the Balurghat Hospital where Besra was seeking medical treatment have claimed that they are being pressured by the Catholic order to declare the cure a miracle."
 
The second miracle occurred in 2008, when Marcilio Andrino, a man from Brasil suffering from multiple brain tumours was declared cured when the doctors noticing his tumours receding, after Marcilio and his wife prayed to Teresa.
Unfortunately there's not much about this case (or I didn't search for the right key words lol), but in some websites we're told that it were multiple tumours, in some others it was a (non identified) brain infection that was treated with antibiotics. As usual, with things related to miracles, the truth is not always clear.
 
 
So, I want to read your opinions about this, whether you are Christian or not. Do you believe Teresa was a good person and did what she could with what she was given or, do you believe it was one of the best Catholic marketing stunts of the 20th century?
 
 

mother-teresa-7591.jpg

 

It goes without saying, but please, be civil and respectful of others' opinions. :p



#2 Nanarie

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 06:44 AM

My roommates went to the Vatican today to see the canonization. However I wanted to sleep in so I did not. 

 

I don't believe in religion and I don't know enough about her to agree/disagree that she's a saint, but she definitely did more than I ever will for the poor and underprivileged. Even if some of her views were kind of fucked up lol.



#3 Katya

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 07:24 AM

but she definitely did more than I ever will for the poor and underprivileged. Even if some of her views were kind of fucked up lol.

 

That's one of the "pro" reasons I heard most. And then I ask, housing people with needs and taking pictures with them is enough to be considered saint? Yes, she gave a house to thousands of people, but why refuse to treat them, feed them? Why refuse to provide basic health and sanitary care, when the whole world was donating to her cause? Tying kids to beds so they couldn't walk around doing kids' stuff? Praying the "you must accept your suffer from a gift of god" card and then flying half world to be treated for her heart condition?

The concept of the Missions of Charity is doing good, and I know some of the houses (at least here in Portugal), do actually give some level of help, despite all the bad things going on inside - illicit profit, sexual abuse, etc. But it was not handled the best way, mainly because -probably, or most likely- it was just a marketing stunt. A way to convert people to a religion - I'm thinking about the psychological blackmail it was made in India to convert Hindus to be able to accept them in the houses of charity, which reminds me a modern version of the crusades, only this time the deaths were hidden under the "charity" veil, and photographed for advertising purposes.



#4 Nanarie

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 09:32 AM

That's one of the "pro" reasons I heard most. And then I ask, housing people with needs and taking pictures with them is enough to be considered saint? Yes, she gave a house to thousands of people, but why refuse to treat them, feed them? Why refuse to provide basic health and sanitary care, when the whole world was donating to her cause? Tying kids to beds so they couldn't walk around doing kids' stuff? Praying the "you must accept your suffer from a gift of god" card and then flying half world to be treated for her heart condition?

The concept of the Missions of Charity is doing good, and I know some of the houses (at least here in Portugal), do actually give some level of help, despite all the bad things going on inside - illicit profit, sexual abuse, etc. But it was not handled the best way, mainly because -probably, or most likely- it was just a marketing stunt. A way to convert people to a religion - I'm thinking about the psychological blackmail it was made in India to convert Hindus to be able to accept them in the houses of charity, which reminds me a modern version of the crusades, only this time the deaths were hidden under the "charity" veil, and photographed for advertising purposes.

 

If you're asking me personally whether I believe it's enough, I can't really answer because I'm not religious and I don't believe in sainthood. People can do great things that earn them respect and admiration and inspire others to strive to follow a similar path of goodness but I don't see it as anything more than that. 

 

Obviously the Catholic church is going to bring attention to anything that ups their follower count. Religions need followers. Followers = money. There's a reason why many old churches/places of worship are some of the most impressive pieces of architecture in this world. 



#5 Coops

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 10:12 AM

Wasn't she also super racist and most of the people in her care were abused, starving, etc? The money donated was rarely used to actually help the poor and underprivileged. 



#6 cara

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 10:14 AM

So she was a racist and a shitty person. Why are you surprised? The Church is as evil as it's going to get. Forgetting her, the church has done incredibly vile and horrific things throughout history.

She's just someone who walked out of her deeds as being viewed as a saint. Good for her, it ain't easy being evil and loved by everyone at the same time.

The only thing that bugs me about this is everyone denies everything you posted, and everything else about this lady. Which people tend to do for religion so meh. People are stupid.

#7 Katya

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 10:28 AM

If you're asking me personally whether I believe it's enough, I can't really answer because I'm not religious and I don't believe in sainthood. People can do great things that earn them respect and admiration and inspire others to strive to follow a similar path of goodness but I don't see it as anything more than that. 

 

Obviously the Catholic church is going to bring attention to anything that ups their follower count. Religions need followers. Followers = money. There's a reason why many old churches/places of worship are some of the most impressive pieces of architecture in this world. 

 

Oh, I wasn't asking you, it was more of a rhetorical speech lmao

The sad fact is, it's all about the money. At one point the congregation had almost 30M $ in monetary donations, but the people being "helped" were still being neglected, left for dead ill and starving.Money is sent to the Vatican, for what purposes? Man, I really liked to know lol

 

 

 

Wasn't she also super racist and most of the people in her care were abused, starving, etc? The money donated was rarely used to actually help the poor and underprivileged. 

 

Yep. Racist, misogynist, she also said something like "the abortion is the great destroyer of peace", funny knowing her congregation accepted money from war lords.

 

 

 

So she was a racist and a shitty person. Why are you surprised? The Church is as evil as it's going to get. Forgetting her, the church has done incredibly vile and horrific things throughout history.

She's just someone who walked out of her deeds as being viewed as a saint. Good for her, it ain't easy being evil and loved by everyone at the same time.

The only thing that bugs me about this is everyone denies everything you posted, and everything else about this lady. Which people tend to do for religion so meh. People are stupid.

 

I'm not surprised at all lmao. I just wanted a reason to talk here and this one is pertinent, important to millions of people world-wide and I was half expecting to allure a believer here so they could expose their thoughts about it in a civilised way because all I've been getting from people is "YOU'LL BURN IN HELL, YOU SATAN'S WHORE". What can I say, I like having an healthy conversation. :p



#8 cara

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 10:36 AM

Oh, I wasn't asking you, it was more of a rhetorical speech lmao

The sad fact is, it's all about the money. At one point the congregation had almost 30M $ in monetary donations, but the people being "helped" were still being neglected, left for dead ill and starving.Money is sent to the Vatican, for what purposes? Man, I really liked to know lol

 

Oh, lol. I have no idea what they spend their money on, but I can say the same for most organized religions because I'm not entirely sure. I think expecting most organized religions to actually help people is pretty far fetched. The church doesn't exist to help people - it exists to control people. Why else would Teresa only provide help to those who converted? Because she was helping them get into heaven? Organized religion has been detrimental to our race since the faithful day that humans invented it.



#9 Jess

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 10:48 AM

Tbh I thought she was already canonized.

#10 Katya

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 11:03 AM

Oh, lol. I have no idea what they spend their money on, but I can say the same for most organized religions because I'm not entirely sure. I think expecting most organized religions to actually help people is pretty far fetched. The church doesn't exist to help people - it exists to control people. Why else would Teresa only provide help to those who converted? Because she was helping them get into heaven? Organized religion has been detrimental to our race since the faithful day that humans invented it.

 

Well, church is a business, I don't know how much a priest makes, but the one in my village gets enough to get drunk every day, smash a Mercedes-Benz every four months and, apparently, supporting a bastard child... or two lmao.

 

 

 

Tbh I thought she was already canonized.

 

Maybe you're confusing it with beatification? She was beatified in 2003.



#11 Nanarie

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 11:07 AM

Oh, I wasn't asking you, it was more of a rhetorical speech lmao

The sad fact is, it's all about the money. At one point the congregation had almost 30M $ in monetary donations, but the people being "helped" were still being neglected, left for dead ill and starving.Money is sent to the Vatican, for what purposes? Man, I really liked to know lol

 

I wasn't aware of the extent of her bad aspects so this is new and interesting to me. I'm not surprised considering the twisted views of the church on a lot of issues, but thank you for this info.

 

imo, poor people believe in religion so they have hope for a better (after)life. Rich people believe in religion so they can pay their way for a seat next to Jesus.



#12 Jess

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 11:07 AM

Til. I don't remember ever hearing that term in any context, but I'm sure I am.

#13 Coops

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 11:07 AM

Well, church is a business, I don't know how much a priest makes, but the one in my village gets enough to get drunk every day, smash a Mercedes-Benz every four months and, apparently, supporting a bastard child... or two lmao.

 

 

 

 

Maybe you're confusing it with beatification? She was beatified in 2003.

What's the difference between being canonized and beautified? I've never heard of this before. 



#14 Katya

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 11:24 AM

I wasn't aware of the extent of her bad aspects so this is new and interesting to me. I'm not surprised considering the twisted views of the church on a lot of issues, but thank you for this info.

 

imo, poor people believe in religion so they have hope for a better (after)life. Rich people believe in religion so they can pay their way for a seat next to Jesus.

 

There's also the recognition from the community. I'm only speaking on a very localized level, as it's the things I see in the place and country I live. People usually tend to make donations to the church to be admired from their pairs. Especially here in a small village in the middle of nowhere, a lot of people live off appearances, who's got a bigger house, or more money to donate to the "poor". But, ultimately, it's all to feed a giant business that leeches weak and gullible people to an eternity in paradise. I find it so chocking how can we be so evolved, but so small-minded at the same time.

 

 

 

What's the difference between being canonized and beautified? I've never heard of this before. 

 

I got this straight from wikipedia because I was struggling to find the proper words in english to translate it lol

"Beatification (from Latin beatus, "blessed" and facere, "to make") is a recognition accorded by the Catholic Church of a dead person's entrance into Heaven and capacity to intercede on behalf of individuals who pray in his or her name."

https://en.wikipedia...i/Beatification

 

Now I realised I should have posted this earlier too. My bad for assuming people would know these terms. Sorry e.e

"Canonization is the act by which the Orthodox, Oriental Orthodoxy, Roman Catholic, or Anglican Church declares that a person who has died was a saint, upon which declaration the person is included in the canon, or list, of recognized saints."

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Canonization



#15 Coops

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 11:27 AM

There's also the recognition from the community. I'm only speaking on a very localized level, as it's the things I see in the place and country I live. People usually tend to make donations to the church to be admired from their pairs. Especially here in a small village in the middle of nowhere, a lot of people live off appearances, who's got a bigger house, or more money to donate to the "poor". But, ultimately, it's all to feed a giant business that leeches weak and gullible people to an eternity in paradise. I find it so chocking how can we be so evolved, but so small-minded at the same time.

 

 

 

 

I got this straight from wikipedia because I was struggling to find the proper words in english to translate it lol

"Beatification (from Latin beatus, "blessed" and facere, "to make") is a recognition accorded by the Catholic Church of a dead person's entrance into Heaven and capacity to intercede on behalf of individuals who pray in his or her name."

https://en.wikipedia...i/Beatification

 

Now I realised I should have posted this earlier too. My bad for assuming people would know these terms. Sorry e.e

"Canonization is the act by which the Orthodox, Oriental Orthodoxy, Roman Catholic, or Anglican Church declares that a person who has died was a saint, upon which declaration the person is included in the canon, or list, of recognized saints."

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Canonization

Yeah I was looking at the wiki page for it, but I wanted to hear your perspective since you're probably more knowledgeable than I am. I knew what canonization was, but I've never heard of beautification. It's not surprising they have separate rituals though. Thank you for the links. :)



#16 Kaddict

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 03:36 PM

Wait, so people just pray to whoever they want? If the church says "this person is cool enough that they will answer your prayers" (beatified), what is the difference between that and canonization? I have never really understood the whole sainthood thing either. But whatever. 

For the topic at hand, what are the sources of her being a racist? I don't know much about her, but it seems like this is only recently coming out. and the only stories on facebook I saw were from unreliable anti-religion groups. Is there unbiased (read: not religious, but not anti-religious) sources out there? Because that would really influence my feelings towards her. In any case, I am certain she did more good for the world than 99% of the world. I don't think that makes her a saint. But whatever.



#17 Elindoril

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 05:54 PM

My elementary school is named after her.

That's ask I got. *Shrug*

#18 Katya

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 11:23 AM

Yeah I was looking at the wiki page for it, but I wanted to hear your perspective since you're probably more knowledgeable than I am. I knew what canonization was, but I've never heard of beautification. It's not surprising they have separate rituals though. Thank you for the links. :)


Meh I don't know half of the things I wish, but I guess coming from a very religious family, even though I was never forced or influenced to be a religious person, gave me at least the curiosity to read stuff and know things about that big part of the my family daily rituals. I decided it was better to critic something I know a few things about than sound a bigot like some religion fanatics xD
 
 
 

Wait, so people just pray to whoever they want? If the church says "this person is cool enough that they will answer your prayers" (beatified), what is the difference between that and canonization? I have never really understood the whole sainthood thing either. But whatever.

 
Well, yeah. You can pray to your passed love ones, a saint, a god, Jesus, Ronald Reagan lol.
The difference is that a beatified person can "answer" that prayer because it was deemed holy to the eyes of the church.
A canonised person is not only a holy (beatified) person but also someone that, while beatified, was in the origin of some miracle. It's not always been like that though. There were a time when people were named Saints for the people who saw them as martyrs or doers of a greater good like simply spread the word of God. For example, Mother Teresa has been proclaimed as a Saint in India for a long time now, but it wasn't -until yesterday- recognised by the Catholic Church.
 
 
 

For the topic at hand, what are the sources of her being a racist? I don't know much about her, but it seems like this is only recently coming out. and the only stories on facebook I saw were from unreliable anti-religion groups. Is there unbiased (read: not religious, but not anti-religious) sources out there? Because that would really influence my feelings towards her. In any case, I am certain she did more good for the world than 99% of the world. I don't think that makes her a saint. But whatever.

 
She refused to accept in the charity home anyone that was not Catholic, and psychologically and religiously blackmailed people into Catholicism for the hope of treatment, food, or just a home to live. And went as far as preforming baptisms on those who were close to die, even if it was against their will, annulling completely their religious freedom in their time of death showing no respect whatsoever for the lives she decided to take in her guard.
This is not recent at all. I remember being a teenager and watch documentaries about this. Every now and then it comes to the surface again, more recently because of the canonisation, but it's definitely not something new.
It's also important to know that the majority of the criticism came from catholic people working with her in the charity cause, most of them from her own words and acts, and from investigators and journalists. Non-catholic people, and mainly people anti-religion only have been using this facts against the religion (any of them). I don't know how extensive these criticisms are (un)biased, all we can do is research, read and watch stuff and make our own judgments and decisions.

I'm not going to post any youtube video because I feel those are made and edited by religion-haters and can send the wrong message whether you are religious or not. Search and viewer discretion is advised lmao and I guess you could be better informed with some documentaries you can probably find in History channels.
She did some good, of course. Despite of the things she did to those who went to her her for help, the Missionaries of Charity are still helping people today, even though its base is the accreditation of the Church and its main objective is to provide money for the Church, but that happens with everything church-related anyway...



#19 Kaddict

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 11:52 AM

Meh I don't know half of the things I wish, but I guess coming from a very religious family, even though I was never forced or influenced to be a religious person, gave me at least the curiosity to read stuff and know things about that big part of the my family daily rituals. I decided it was better to critic something I know a few things about than sound a bigot like some religion fanatics xD
 
 
 

 
Well, yeah. You can pray to your passed love ones, a saint, a god, Jesus, Ronald Reagan lol.
The difference is that a beatified person can "answer" that prayer because it was deemed holy to the eyes of the church.
A canonised person is not only a holy (beatified) person but also someone that, while beatified, was in the origin of some miracle. It's not always been like that though. There were a time when people were named Saints for the people who saw them as martyrs or doers of a greater good like simply spread the word of God. For example, Mother Teresa has been proclaimed as a Saint in India for a long time now, but it wasn't -until yesterday- recognised by the Catholic Church.
 
 
 

 
She refused to accept in the charity home anyone that was not Catholic, and psychologically and religiously blackmailed people into Catholicism for the hope of treatment, food, or just a home to live. And went as far as preforming baptisms on those who were close to die, even if it was against their will, annulling completely their religious freedom in their time of death showing no respect whatsoever for the lives she decided to take in her guard.
This is not recent at all. I remember being a teenager and watch documentaries about this. Every now and then it comes to the surface again, more recently because of the canonisation, but it's definitely not something new.
It's also important to know that the majority of the criticism came from catholic people working with her in the charity cause, most of them from her own words and acts, and from investigators and journalists. Non-catholic people, and mainly people anti-religion only have been using this facts against the religion (any of them). I don't know how extensive these criticisms are (un)biased, all we can do is research, read and watch stuff and make our own judgments and decisions.

I'm not going to post any youtube video because I feel those are made and edited by religion-haters and can send the wrong message whether you are religious or not. Search and viewer discretion is advised lmao and I guess you could be better informed with some documentaries you can probably find in History channels.
She did some good, of course. Despite of the things she did to those who went to her her for help, the Missionaries of Charity are still helping people today, even though its base is the accreditation of the Church and its main objective is to provide money for the Church, but that happens with everything church-related anyway...

Oh. Yeah, that kinda makes me feel icky. I haven;t done any research on the topic, because I just don't feel invested in learning about her life. Anyway, thanks for clarifying some of that for me!

 

Also, I am praying to Ronald tonight. When is he getting beatified?



#20 Nanarie

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 11:55 AM

Oh. Yeah, that kinda makes me feel icky. I haven;t done any research on the topic, because I just don't feel invested in learning about her life. Anyway, thanks for clarifying some of that for me!

 

Also, I am praying to Ronald tonight. When is he getting beatified?

 

I didn't read Katya's post at first and I thought you meant Ronald McDonald. I got very confused. 



#21 Katya

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 12:20 PM

Oh. Yeah, that kinda makes me feel icky. I haven;t done any research on the topic, because I just don't feel invested in learning about her life. Anyway, thanks for clarifying some of that for me!

 

Also, I am praying to Ronald tonight. When is he getting beatified?

 

He can't be beatified at all lol.

You can pray to (dead people) and for (dead or alive) anyone. The thing is, only holy people recognised by the church can intercede for you and "answer" your prayers. Man, it's the church...


I didn't read Katya's post at first and I thought you meant Ronald McDonald. I got very confused. 

 

McDonald's have some heavenly-made food :lol2:



#22 Kaddict

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 01:21 PM

He can't be beatified at all lol.

You can pray to (dead people) and for (dead or alive) anyone. The thing is, only holy people recognised by the church can intercede for you and "answer" your prayers. Man, it's the church...


 

McDonald's have some heavenly-made food :lol2:

Then how am I supposed to get trickle down blessings? Ugh.



#23 Katya

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 01:41 PM

Then how am I supposed to get trickle down blessings? Ugh.

 

Confess your sins, leave behind your earthly existence and give yourself to God.




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