Posted 01 January 2006 - 01:32 PM
Posted 01 January 2006 - 01:34 PM
Posted 01 January 2006 - 01:34 PM
However, the human race are feeble, stumbling infants in the dark. We shall snuff it, eventually, of that I have no doubt. However, no God will be responsible.
Aliens might be responsible, though, if we want to talk about external influences. =D
Posted 01 January 2006 - 01:39 PM
...though I also believe that it's creator surely has the power to stop it when ever he pleases.
We'll agree to disagree. =D
Posted 01 January 2006 - 01:58 PM
I think the end of the humans will end sometime. I dont think the earth will end exactly. I just think the earth will give humans their just desserts. I watch a lot of godzilla movies, and I personally think theres going to be a monster or some symbol from mother earth to not go too far.
Though I believe, the probable symbol will come when there is the invention of an oxygen destroyer. Unfortunately, thats in the process of being invented according to some of my friends irl.
Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:04 PM
Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:09 PM
Well as a 'good' atheist you would like to share your opinions of why religios endings are bullshit. I think I did a fine job on explaining why I think it will end like it is, considering all the stuff in my first post is factual (or the events at least).
And I think they are bullshit. You know why? Because im an atheist. Plain and simple. I think personally that everything happens scientifically, nulling out all religious points whatsoever. I'm not saying your thought on it is bullshit, its a well developed idea. I was simply saying religious ends are bullshit to me. But I trust earth more then people and science more then philosophy.
Edited by Athean, 01 January 2006 - 02:10 PM.
Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:16 PM
Yeah, that also caused man to think about the end of the world every year before this one too.
They could be classified as concidences.
Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:29 PM
Evolution isn't a concidence. It's just nature.
Alias, just look at it this way :
You see a watch. Obviously a watchmaker made it. But then you wonder, if god made this universe with no parts, then how the hell was he created? He cant just magically appear. he couldnt of been by coincidence.
Some people believe the watch was created by nature, others a huge person. Not a big deal.
Edited by Athean, 01 January 2006 - 02:33 PM.
Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:39 PM
You think I believe it magically appeared?
I think God did make this universe with scientific logic, so that the excuse you provided above could be foiled. How do you know it wasn't God that made the millions of scientific calculations become true? Those 'coincendences' are in fact God's intrutsion on the creation of the world.
/ * Off Topic */
And how would you know that the bible and specific religion you are following just must be true? How do you know that its not the mason cult of satanism thats right, or perhaps the hindus or buddhists? Im just saying we believe what we want so lets get onto topic.
/ * On Topic */
Yes, I personally believe that there would be a new species above humans? What do you think they would be like if this possibility were to be true?
Posted 01 January 2006 - 03:14 PM
That's the worst idea you could ever bring onto a debate bored. It's double sided, and can never be answered as every person believes what he or she likes, therefor there is nothing to debate about.
I just believe from what we haved discuss IN THIS TOPIC, not the one on RELIGION, is irrelevant to the topic (in the extent of debating)
Edited by Athean, 01 January 2006 - 03:20 PM.
Posted 01 January 2006 - 05:23 PM
I got alot of other theories relating to prophet's and religion's prophecies but I believe my meteor theory is the most simple and logic. yes all the world superpowers will launch nukes to try and take it down but the impact will just break it up into more smaller fragments and will be impossible to stop. in an infinite universe this is bound to happen. that or a nuclear holocaust becuz more and more nations are beginnin to develop nuclear programs.
I don't know if it's allowed but check out this site-http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread51056/pg1
theres alot of crackpots who posted there but also a handful of genius minds who have really good theories
Posted 01 January 2006 - 07:04 PM
If the world is going to end, there going to be a new world. Where theres no sadness, disease, hunger, wars, and natural disaster. People won't be so violent like today world is and crazy people doing harms to others.
Posted 02 January 2006 - 09:26 AM
Anyone remember 1999? Everyone thought the world will end in 2000 and that all of the computers would crash.
Edited by Bao, 02 January 2006 - 09:26 AM.
Posted 02 January 2006 - 09:35 AM
And on the whole religion thing, if people use the old "how could the big bang have occurred without any assistance?" crap, then what created God and allowed him/her to create the universe? He/she can't have just been there for infinite years twiddling his/her thumbs pondering over whether or not to create the universe... (and if that is what he/she did then they must be pretty easily entertained...)
Edited by Laser Wave, 02 January 2006 - 09:36 AM.
Posted 02 January 2006 - 09:39 AM
Why 'cant' that be true? Please share
I will after you explain why the big bang needed assistance
Posted 02 January 2006 - 09:48 AM
Put it this way, there are numbers where if you took a piece of paper and filled it with numbers front and back, then had 10 papers for each star in the universe that's how long the number is. There are millions of numbers like that, and if one of the numbers were to change even by one number, this earth could not exist as it does today. I read this from a christian writer that used to be an athiest scientist, it's factual evidence.
I'll apply the same argument to there being the existence of an giant, eternal, invisible bloke who lives somewhere which no living person (and possibly nobody) has ever seen...
Maybe add a few more numbers to that piece of paper, then buy some more paper and start on that
Posted 02 January 2006 - 10:51 AM
If your whole life consists on only believing in things you can see, that's not very well built
Look around you. For this all to happen 'scientifically', it's just as impossible as believing that a God created it in your view. To me it's easy to believe, just a few basic concepts. We humans are the ones that created science, and yet we can't even barely get to Mars, but we can describe the creation of the universe. Almost contradicitng.
I think humans are stupid and fall into such beliefs that they can never even know of fact if it is true or not due to the fact humans just need to rely on something. Even if you are agnostic, you are still relying off of some belief which I believe they cannot comprehend.
Science is just the way things are modelled. Many people disagree with me, but many also agree. Despite that, I truly cannot beleive what is written by man as "Gods message to man" and despite the dead sea scrolls and accuracy, I just cant believe it, It's not denial, it's just odd. I do say though, some atheists are extremely ignorant. Like the president of the California Atheists (I believe) said once "If God made rainbows, then god is gay?". Perfect definition of ignorant atheist right there, and very contradicting.
Posted 02 January 2006 - 12:13 PM
thats all crap...even though im am catholic...its like with the prophets like nostradamus..they say he saw the future because alot of his prophecies have come true but what they dont tell you is all the prophecies that didnt come true...and most of them are so loosely based that a gr.6 could take one of his prophecies and easily relate to something and every1 will be like o he was right
And how do you think the religious endings are going to happen? Everyone going to just suddenly dissapear. There will most likely big a meteor that finishes the earth off. God is not a magacian, there is logic in how He does His stuff. Part of the tribulation is "stars falling" which would of course represent meteors.
thats is so loosely based..in old times they didnt know much about space and anything outside earth could be called a star so if modern day scientists forsaw something coming from space and destroyin us, all the religious people would be "o thats what the bible meant as a star that would destroy us'..half of the bible is heavily exaggerated and I think alot of the stuff they put there with the prophecies are just wild gueses..they say like 10 ways of the world ending and when like 1 comes true there like "o it was right' and forget about all the other 9
Part of the tribulation is "stars falling" which would of course represent meteors.
all the prohpecies are very loosely based so u cant base ur facts on them
that will be too long..its supposed to explode in like a couple billion years and we humans would have killed our own planet already with all the stuff we do unless we are able to develop technology to inhabit a new planet
I'm going long-term and going for when the sun eventually expands and engulfs earth.
I got another theory...what if there was a previous human civilization that came before our first dinosaurs and got wiped out by themselves and became oil?the earth would be like a repeatin cycle.after one cycle wipes its own self out the earth would re-neutralize itself and b re-born and seem new...today scientists are finding stuff on earth that could only be made by having way superior space technology than today
Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:16 PM
That's the problem. I find it so amusing people can believe in a theory that has been publically proven wrong, yet not God. It's what the devil does, you may not think so, but it's true. Don't feel alone, there are alot of people who don't believe it because 'they don't want too', it's the way the devil works. You don't know how many times I have heard the above stament.
Anyways, science is a cheap escape from believe God. Half of it's bullshit, and it will never ever prove that the world was created through something that had no interference, yet people will still believe in it.
Your saying we need something to hang onto?? Your hanging onto a belief that was proven wrong, how pathetic is that. At least we have evidence.
'Odd'? And you don't think the world being created from an explosion and humans evolving from monkey's is odd?
Besides, how as the universe started. Answer me that please, because I can
Firstly, let me point out the contradictions of being proven wrong. religion is a self being. you take the ignorance and deny the fact parts of christianity, and lots of christianity has been proven wrong many times by scientists. in the end, you, like many religious people or atheists, stick to the idea It Can't be true. The real god here is humans. There is no creature that self manipulates and causes atheism. Satan would want to make people believe in him no? Apparently he wants everyone to be an atheist.
Yes, im a narcissist and im not religious. But the fact is religion is full of a bunch of elitist creeps that think theyre so powerful because a gods gonna save them in death, yet theyve never seen what happens when someone dies, so can they prove anything? no. can they prove atheism? no
I personally believe all of this is a bunch of junk humans modelled through science, and everything in humanity is user defined. so sorry I dont believe in your god, and sorry my so called religion is that of satans word, he who doesnt exist and is completely contradicting.
Oh yeah, and nothings been proven right either, so wheres your point? I just dont want to live a life listening to a bunch of bullshit just to die and not know what the hell is gonna happen.
Do I need to get into religion more? Well lets start. Im friends with a muslim man. He's very nice, goes to masque (sp?) and does what he needs to do. he prays to god, but not once has he clenched onto his religion like its just the facts. He knows he could be wrong or right, and hes very universalist on the issue.
But then theres the 1217 christians that attend my school. I see 3 people open minded, but the rest all have made it like its a game and everything is right. Now I live in a city where my friend turn got the shit beat out of him for being agnostic, so of course doesnt reflect all of christianity, but were debating, so lets be bias and closed minded as usual.
The christians at my school are completely straight up christian. they all picket at other religions like theyre the cause of world destruction. They wear crosses and spend a lot of their times trying to convert me and any other people. For the love of god, there are so many christians as it is.
And the other thing I dont like is the fact that 'God' is apparently perfect, yet many christians define perfect as no feelings and neutrality. But the almighty god is just a huge pissed off asshole that in the old testament paticularly kills a bunch of people. As well, he killed his godamn son. God is personally the biggest dipshit I know.
on to the topic, I believe that subconcious is the self creation of everything. Therefore, our end of the world will only happen when we all think so.
Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:32 PM
I don't feel like getting into this, but I'm sure what scope meant to say abou prophesies was not that they are made UP after the events occur, but that they can be interpreted many different ways. It's called retrofitting.
here are some examples
Some claim that Nostradamus predicted the Challenger space shuttle disaster on January 28, 1986. Of course, they didn't recognize that he had predicted it until it was too late. Here is the passage:
D'humain troupeau neuf seront mis Ã part,
De jugement & conseil separÃ©s:
Leur sort sera divisÃ© en dÃ©part,
Kappa, Thita, Lambda mors bannis Ã©garÃ©s.
From the human flock nine will be sent away,
Separated from judgment and counsel:
Their fate will be sealed on departure
Kappa, Thita, Lambda the banished dead err (I.81).
Thiokol made the defective O-ring that is blamed for the disaster. The name has a 'k', 'th' and an 'l'. Never mind that there were seven who died, not nine. The rest is vague enough to retrofit many different scenarios.
L'an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois
Du ciel viendra grand Roy deffrayeur
Resusciter le grand Roy d'Angoumois.*
Avant aprÃ¨s Mars rÃ©gner par bonheur.
The year 1999 seven months
From the sky will come the great King of Terror.
To resuscitate the great king of the Mongols. Before and after Mars reigns by good luck. (X.72)*
Nobody, not even the most fanatical of Nostradamus's disciples, had a clue what this passage might have meant before July 1999. However, after John F. Kennedy Jr., his wife Carolyn Bessette and her sister Lauren Bessette, were killed in a plane crash on July 18, 1999, the retroprophets shoehorned the event to the "prophecy." Here is just one example culled from the Internet:
Could the crash of John F. Kennedy Jr.'s airplane in July of 1999 fulfill the line "from the sky will come "the great King of Terror"? Could the human fear of death and bodily injury be the intended definition of "the great King of Terror"? It might be possible!
Oh, and plus. Give me concrete evidence of the existence of God. The Bible doesn't count, because there's tons of 'holy documents' like the Koran or Ancient Egyptian or Greek texts. Any religion, it seems to me, is just as valid as the next. Why do you believe yours is so right? I already know the answer. Soemthing along the lines of "I feel god when I go to church"/"I have been raised this way and it makes the most sense."/"I have seen God in (the beauty of eternal love/the faces of children/ a lovely spring day)" I don't mean to make fun but every Christian you talk to have a valid argument until that point when they basically refer to "well just because."
Also, what theory has been proved wrong? I missed something, and I'm curious
Sorry for being mean, I'm a bad person or something
Edited by jillian, 02 January 2006 - 03:36 PM.
Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:36 PM
Someone's belief that it was started by the Big Bang is no different than your belief that it was God.
Besides, how as the universe started. Answer me that please, because I can
Really no sense in arguing there.
Religion has been proven wrong just as many times as science has.
Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:36 PM
The picture that everyone seems to be missing is faith.
Alias has faith in God. Even though he cannot see it, he has faith that God does indeed exist. The particulars described in the Bible or any other religious text are miniscle compared the concept of faith. You won't find any two people, no matter the religion, who believe exactly the same thing when it comes to the particulars.
The existance of the Earth is doomed to be cut short, eventually. I'm not even talking about human life or life itself on Earth. Just Earth. If "God's universal clock" keeps ticking, then any number of things could spell the destruction of the Earth without even the need of His Hand getting involved. Even if the Sun dying doesn't take it out (which it may not, the Sun isn't that big, really), any number of things could and something *will*, eventually. That is the nature of infinity, even without an infinite Universe, really, *something* will eventually happen.
So in that respect, Alias (and every other religion, and most scientists) is/are right. No faith needed. The Earth *will* eventually bite it. It is the WHEN and the HOW that require faith, and as I said, no two people will ever completely agree on it, science or not. So it really is pointless to argue about it. Rather, share and respect.
Now, the Big Bang Theory is just that, a theory. I wouldn't say it's proven wrong daily. It seems to be proven right daily, to me, but then maybe we don't read the same e-Zines. =D I extremely doubt, though, that in five hundred years, if humanity still graces its presence to the Universe, that we will have a theory on exactly the same thing. It may be the same general principle, with different particulars. It may be a completely different theory altogether.
I'm pretty sure evolution will still be around, as we seem to be finding more proof of that all the time - don't even need missing links when you have fruit flies given you a weekly performance of it. But then, evolution is a more easily provable theory than the Big Bang. We could recreate evolution with the right science. We'd be hard-pressed to recreate the Big Bang, though. =D
But as it stands, we have models for everything, how we think everything should be. That doesn't mean we're right, but it does give us something to go off of. When we find more evidence, we change the model to accomodate it. Sometimes, the model changes drastically with new evidence, sometimes it barely changes at all. Sometimes, rarely, the model is completely scrapped. But we're learning, and that's the point of it. To understand, without a doubt, what is going on with our Universe.
And that doesn't require atheistism to do that. Most scientists ARE, if not agnostics, then believers in your everyday religion. Especially in the biological sciences, where really, miracles do happen daily that cannot be explained. You do not see those miracles, though, in physics or astronomy, which is where I would think the largest crop of scientist-atheists come from.
And no theory of science excludes God from it. That is something I've never understood about Believers. There is nothing that says God didn't play a part in the Big Bang or evolution. They need not be mutually exclusive concepts. Most religious text give you a lot of leeway in interpretation - after all, as I said, no two people believe the same thing regarding everything.
Anyway. Faith. I do not have faith in that the sun will rise - I know, excluding any external influences, that the sun WILL rise every morning. Hell, if science doesn't give me enough to go on (which it does), there's always precedent. The sun always rises. You do not have faith in what you know - that completely nullifies the concept.
Someone may say, "Well, I KNOW God exists." That's fine and dandy, but until you can prove it, it is still faith. You cannot have certainty with faith, you cannot have faith with certainty.
What am I getting at? As long as there are Unknowns, there will always be faith. You cannot expect - hell, it would be foolish to even imagine - a world without faith just because some bloke with a couple doctorates says, "Oh, there is no God." That's a matter of faith as anything else.
Science will never be able to prove the non-existance of God. Never. I extremely doubt that, even in the right circumstances, it would even be able to prove the EXISTANCE of God. So you really have a standstill. There will always be Unknowns, there will always be questions left unanswered, and nothing will ever be with absolute certainty. Even if there was a world full of atheists, there would still be room for faith in God, because you can never disprove it.
Do you understand me?! There is no NEED to fear science. There is no NEED to fear religion (as long as it isn't in charge of everything, I.e. Catholic Church vs. Galileo). If you don't think Big Bang is worth the paper it is written on, by all means, it IS just a theory. But there is certainly room for God in it, don't ever say there isn't. There's room for God in anything.
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