6 replies to this topic

[Frizzle]

I don't think it is Christianity, as I believe it's just simply the fact that we aren't all arseholes and have some civilised manners in us. Not all of us are civillised and not all of us are religious.

[nox]

i don't think u can trace good morals, people are born with empathy and it rubs onto others. you're going far too deep into this, people are born with empathetic and altruistic feelings. they can be developed through a series of events and experiences, but i think people are primarily born with them.

a poor man steals a carton of apples from a chain store such as "Key Food". he is caught&prosecuted, and sentenced to x time in jail for shoplifting. the situation can be looked at it from a number of different angles if it's right or wrong. this store of courses takes no loss in income, there is literally no impact. he gets to eat, and avoids starving. do i think it is morally wrong? no. do i think he should still be put in jail? yes, it's only fair.

unfortunately morals and real life don't always agree with each other.

Edited by speaker, 03 February 2007 - 10:31 AM.

[nox]

You must of not read my post. Read the paragraph where I addressed how it effects society, you said exactly what I just addressed. I'm not going to far in, your staying to far out. You just accept it as life, and assume we are born with it, and yet you have 0 proof on how someone can be born with it. The man who headed the Human Genome project even agrees there is such thing as Moral Law because through extensive study of the human genome there is no human gene that explains this Law that everyone seems to share.

what, are you saying something such as a conscience is debatable? people are born with feelings, and if you deny that you must be doubting the basic fundamentals of psychology and neuron science. the human brain has the ability to recognize emotions, and then react accordingly. science has proved these actions to be innate, and that most humans are born with it. i suggest researching some of the findings of mirella dapretto (sp?) & her colleagues.

if you truly doubt this, and are thatt desperate for a source:
http://www.iht.com/a...ws/snmirror.php

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7656021/

edit:btw i was agreeing with you, as well as adding something to express that unwritten and written laws both exist & both play very important roles in society

Edited by speaker, 03 February 2007 - 11:43 AM.

[Melchoire]

I think perhaps we're born with it but not in a physical way. Maybe just like a bird learns how to fly humans learn to obey the law of morality to carry our society forward as sort of a survival instinct that keeps us from self corruption and maybe even extinction. If birds never learned to fly there society would end and they would go extinct because they can't survive. So lets sat Craig has 2 apples and Leslie has none, Craig gives one to Leslie and expects her to do the same when Leslie has an apple to spare. If Leslie doesn't give him an apple, Johnny becomes angry and thinks to himself that he won't share anymore either. This means that Johnny and Leslie have become corrupted, and they haven't learned to obey that law. The consequences for 2 people won't be so bad but what if everyone thought the same way. If a bird never learns to fly he'll die but thats not a big difference for the whole species.

With humans the this "morality" instinct comes with a flaw that you don't always have to obey it and the consequences might not be bad. This concept brings forth bad deeds and stuff. For example, like you mentioned, if Johnny sees Billy lots of apples and thinks that taking one little apple won't make a difference he'll take it and if he doesn't get caught he'll keep doing it bringing way to sins and corruption of his society.

This whole concept has been under debate for a very long time and Friedrich Nietzsche made some good theories that explains the laws and nature of morality. You can read his essay that explains this stuff here.

So basically for me the bottom line is the law of morality is learned through instinct but it comes with a flaw that if it's not obeyed it doesn't always have a bad consequence.

Edited by xėnon, 03 February 2007 - 12:15 PM.

[nox]

Er, this topic is about Moral Law not human feelings. My point is this, there is no human gene that explains this imaginary law that all of us seem to abide by. We usually always tend to talk to someone like they know the law, becuase it seems that everyone knows it. Let's stay on topic here

maybe i misinterpreted when you said that there is "0 proof", because what i meant was that people are born with empathy, and with that comes a moral law that humans unconsciously abide by

[Melchoire]

Here's the problem, the entire post consisted of explaining the law of morality, and not where it came from. Why do we as humans learn these laws? It's not natural, why are we so special? Why can we not forget these laws and why do we have them? You're beating the bush rather than answering the direct question. Sure we learn the Moral Laws, but where do they come from?

Well I said that it comes as a sort of survival instinct for us perhaps it was there since humans began. I don't think you explained where the moral laws came from either you asked "What is your opinion on this matter?".

Edited by xėnon, 03 February 2007 - 03:05 PM.

[Ives]

Unifying Moral Law is bull. It ranges from person to person. Children love everything, and as they slowly get crushed as they grow up and learn to dislike different things is when their morals build up as they learn whats right and wrong by their parents.