35 replies to this topic

[Hydrogen]

I'm going to blatantly admit that I didn't read a single reply to your original post. I'll also admit that I don't even care to discuss this particular topic. However, I will say that your overarching theme is correct: people will believe what they want to believe, even if they see conclusive evidence that their beliefs are wrong - they will justify it. People aren't as logical and rational as they believe themselves to be.

[WharfRat]

Although iargue may be using reductio ad absurdum to prove his case, he still is correct for nearly everything that he said.

China is just as dependent upon the success of the U.S. as the U.S. is of China. Without the U.S., who the fuck would buy all of the Chinese goods? That's the reason that China is so committed to seeing the U.S. succeed... Sure, in the future they may be entirely self reliant and be dominant at the current rates, but they still have a good ways to go before they actually surpass the United States.

Another major problem with China is that they have a state controlled currency rate... As in, the government dictates what the value of the RMB and thus makes it harder for other nations to compete at the lowballed rate. I know that Obama was urging President Hu on his visit here to allow the currency to be traded at market value in order to promote fairness in trade.

The U.S. has a fraction of the population and 6x the GDP... Our per capita income is significantly higher than China. "For example, in 2009, US per capita GDP was $46000 and that of China was about $7000." That's a huge difference...

With 27% of the U.S. debt being from international assistance, only a portion of that (though admittedly a large portion) is owed to China. Yes, they do sort of have some sense of political pull within the U.S. due to the debt and the increasing need to borrow more, but it's still certainly not at the level that "China now owns us." is even remotely accurate.

A few side thoughts; China needs to stay in good terms with the U.S. to keep their economy going... at least for now. The U.S. could always tell them "Tough Titties" when it comes to collection time... (not that I think it will come to that.)

Another side thought, I think the whole situation is rather amusing... China is lending us money so that we can buy shit from them... Essentially, they are just giving us all of the products that we import and hoping that we one day will pay it back with some interest.

I do think that we need to do some serious work on reducing our debt though as it is quickly approaching our GDP (Something like 14 trillion?). But I also realize that China is just in a good place economically and is looking to make some investments and they see the U.S. as a sound investment for their money... Their investment in no way would amount to anything close to "owning" us as Travis pointed out in his original post.

[WharfRat]

Fuck me... that was supposed to attach to my old post! Ignore this random ass post everyone... and instead, focus on HYPNOTOAD!

[travis]

I'm going to blatantly admit that I didn't read a single reply to your original post. I'll also admit that I don't even care to discuss this particular topic. However, I will say that your overarching theme is correct: people will believe what they want to believe, even if they see conclusive evidence that their beliefs are wrong - they will justify it. People aren't as logical and rational as they believe themselves to be.

Thank you...Hydro..for a post that was 100% relevant to the OT

Although iargue may be using reductio ad absurdum to prove his case, he still is correct for nearly everything that he said.

China is just as dependent upon the success of the U.S. as the U.S. is of China. Without the U.S., who the fuck would buy all of the Chinese goods? That's the reason that China is so committed to seeing the U.S. succeed... Sure, in the future they may be entirely self reliant and be dominant at the current rates, but they still have a good ways to go before they actually surpass the United States.

Another major problem with China is that they have a state controlled currency rate... As in, the government dictates what the value of the RMB and thus makes it harder for other nations to compete at the lowballed rate. I know that Obama was urging President Hu on his visit here to allow the currency to be traded at market value in order to promote fairness in trade.

The U.S. has a fraction of the population and 6x the GDP... Our per capita income is significantly higher than China. "For example, in 2009, US per capita GDP was $46000 and that of China was about $7000." That's a huge difference...

With 27% of the U.S. debt being from international assistance, only a portion of that (though admittedly a large portion) is owed to China. Yes, they do sort of have some sense of political pull within the U.S. due to the debt and the increasing need to borrow more, but it's still certainly not at the level that "China now owns us." is even remotely accurate.

A few side thoughts; China needs to stay in good terms with the U.S. to keep their economy going... at least for now. The U.S. could always tell them "Tough Titties" when it comes to collection time... (not that I think it will come to that.)

Another side thought, I think the whole situation is rather amusing... China is lending us money so that we can buy shit from them... Essentially, they are just giving us all of the products that we import and hoping that we one day will pay it back with some interest.

I do think that we need to do some serious work on reducing our debt though as it is quickly approaching our GDP (Something like 14 trillion?). But I also realize that China is just in a good place economically and is looking to make some investments and they see the U.S. as a sound investment for their money... Their investment in no way would amount to anything close to "owning" us as Travis pointed out in his original post.

Cody, you're like iargue. But your arguments and counter statements are much more structured, and make people less mad.

LOL I MADE A QUALITY THREAD, YAY

[WharfRat]

Thank you...Hydro..for a post that was 100% relevant to the OT


Cody, you're like iargue. But your arguments and counter statements are much more structured, and make people less mad.

LOL I MADE A QUALITY THREAD, YAY

like iargue in what way? In that we share an opinion on this matter?

Thank you for what I assume was a compliment. I don't know why my post would anger anyone... I try to be pretty neutral in my assessment of things.

And yes, I appreciate the quality thread! We should all hope to make more quality threads in the future!

[travis]

like iargue in what way? In that we share an opinion on this matter?

Thank you for what I assume was a compliment. I don't know why my post would anger anyone... I try to be pretty neutral in my assessment of things.

And yes, I appreciate the quality thread! We should all hope to make more quality threads in the future!

You an iargue are similar in that you're both master debaters. No play on words intended.
And that's what I was saying was different. iague's posts tend to piss people off...unfortunately.

Not a compliment or a put down, just a simple observation.

[Bone]

lol@abradix
>lost argument
>trollface.jpg

[kuwaz]

Cody and iargue aren't really talking about the same thing. Cody is right, iargue is wrong.

Gotta get my daily troll on.

Edited by channel_49, 26 January 2011 - 11:29 AM.

[Abradix]

lol@abradix
>lost argument
>trollface.jpg

lol@bone
>thinks internet arguments are srsbsnss
>puts effort into making greentext outside of 4chon