99 replies to this topic

[khan]

I feel horrible for those people but honestly would they be running to our aid if it happened to us?

Haha, that's a good point!
Wow, I just realized Americans always try to help other people/countries out.. but never heard of a situation where we were helped..

But yeah, they probably think we're fine and can handle it on our own. D;<

[Ladida]

Haha, that's a good point!
Wow, I just realized Americans always try to help other people/countries out.. but never heard of a situation where we were helped..

But yeah, they probably think we're fine and can handle it on our own. D;<

I never understood why it seems as though other countries feel entitled to US aid. Or maybe they don't, and I've just been watching too much CNN.

[Dazz]

Wow, I just realized Americans always try to help other people/countries out.. but never heard of a situation where we were helped..

How about wars?

[rizler]

Wow, I just realized Americans always try to help other people/countries out.. but never heard of a situation where we were helped..

i dislike america alot

they nuked Japan that wasnt very nice

they are usually at war in some way or another

they were the main cause of the slave trade

[neobrah]

If the country belongs to the United Nations then member Countries usually are usually willing to help out.

More so, the individuals of countries around the world are doing their part by donating to charities (Red Cross). I donated $10 two days ago and I hope it helps (although a small amount )

i dislike america alot

they nuked Japan that wasnt very nice

they are usually at war in some way or another

they were the main cause of the slave trade

=p the nukes were in response to Pearl Harbour - but I do agree the casualty rate far exceeded the 4k+ sailors that died there. Each nuke killed around 60k+ civilians

[SailorMoon]

I think this thread is heading in a bad direction.... I would like to maybe clear some misconceptions


The only foreigner help Japan has asked for is for aid in search and rescue... and the aid of military already stationed in Japan.

The United States is maybe MORE obligated to help, as from the military invasion after WW2, The Unites States has become the main security ally for Japan, having almost 50,000 Troops stationed there, as Japan was thereafter limited with it's own military size. This is the price of war, but the codependency formed here definitely plays a part in disasters. The Japanese people will not ask for more help than what is desperately needed.

I see Americans here write "why should Americans always help if no one ever helps us"~~~ this is very ignorant!! The Unites States has received as much foreign aid for it's disasters as other countries have.... or have you forgotten some of these:

Spoiler

http://www.telegraph...-countries.html


More than 30 countries and international organizations have offered to help with the spill. The United States rarely faces a disaster of such magnitude that it requires international aid, but the government did accept assistance after Hurricane Katrina.

Most of the countries and groups have offered skimmers, boom or dispersant chemicals, according to a chart on the State Department's website.

"To be clear, the acceptance of international assistance we announced today did not mean to imply that international help was arriving only now," said State Department spokesman PJ Crowley. "In fact, before today, there were 24 foreign vessels operating in the region and nine countries had provided boom, skimmers and other assistance."

He said as early as May 11, booms arrived from Mexico, Norway and Brazil.

The chart indicated offers have been accepted from six countries - Canada, Mexico, Croatia, the Netherlands, Norway and Japan. Offers also were accepted from two groups - the International Maritime Organisation and the Monitoring and Information Center, which is operated by the European Commission.

Spoiler

http://en.wikipedia....rricane_Katrina

Many countries and international organizations offered the United States relief aid in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

According to the European Commission, one week after the disaster, on September 4, 2005, the United States officially asked the European Union for emergency help, asking for blankets, emergency medical kits, water and 500,000 food rations for victims. Help proposed by EU member states was coordinated through their crisis center. The British presidency of the EU functioned as contact with the USA.




The Japanese Foreign Ministry said that it would provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross to assist victims of Hurricane Katrina. Japan also identified needs in affected regions via the U.S. government and provided up to $1,000,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if they receive requests from the U.S. for such assistance. Private and corporate donations totaled over $13,000,000.^[33] One Japanese individual, Takashi Endo, donated USD $1,000,000 from his personal funds to Katrina relief efforts.^[15]

Saying that America helps but does not receive is absolutely wrong. In any time of need, Allies have helped the United States, as the United States has helped it's allies in their time of need.


As for payback for Pearl harbor? I don't even have words in my vocabulary for how offensive this statement is. Pearl harbor was a very unfortunate happening of War, as was the Nuclear Warfare used in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Both sides have accumiulated huge losses in the name of War, and for anyone to even think of holding a grudge as means for justifying arrogance, this is unacceptable. Especially now that Japan and United States are strong allies. It has taken a horrible war for this peace to be created.

Again, uneducated people think their country can do no wrong. But I will say this, Americans have done their fair share of wrongdoings, just as any other country has done. In fact, The reason why Japan made their initial contact with Nationalistic Parties instead of the West was because of racism. In these times, the west did not want to pay fair price for trading to Asia because Asians were considered inferior (not Caucasian). Here is a very well explained excerpt from Wikipedia:
"In 1919, Japan proposed a clause on racial equality to be included in the League of Nations covenant at the Paris Peace Conference. The clause was rejected by several Western countries and was not forwarded for larger discussion at the full meeting of the conference. The rejection was an important factor in the coming years in turning Japan away from cooperation with West and towards nationalistic policies."

It is because of the West's widespread use of slavery and racism that created the initial separation of ideals. And no, they do not teach this to you in your American Schools. Just as every country may propagandize education and have omission of facts, the United States is also guilty of this.

I ask that before you start talking ignorantly, research more. Become less biased towards what your country has chosen to teach you.

[iargue]

i dislike america alot

they nuked Japan that wasnt very nice

they are usually at war in some way or another

they were the main cause of the slave trade

Japan asked for it.

So are a lot of countries.

No. That would be Britain. Get your facts straight please.

I think this thread is heading in a bad direction.... I would like to maybe clear some misconceptions


I ask that before you start talking ignorantly, research more. Become less biased towards what your country has chosen to teach you.

I was taught all of that in school.

And The us gives over 10x more aide then is receives.

[SailorMoon]

I was taught all of that in school.

And The us gives over 10x more aide then is receives.

This is the exact arrogant attitude I am speaking out against.

[Freshx]

I think we should just mind our own damn business like every other country.
We are in Afghan to help them get a government that they DONT want.

[Abradix]

Pearl Harbor was bombed because we wouldn't sell the Japanese oil for their war effort. So we're the ones who asked for it.

Nobody in this thread really seems to have much of an idea what they're talking about, so I'll take my leave. I hope everyone will remember not to do any research or use any facts to back up their argument. We like verbal diarrhea.

[Seaner]

This is the exact arrogant attitude I am speaking out against.

Best get used to it, it's all you're getting outta him. (:

[Mr. Hobo]

I feel horrible for those people but honestly would they be running to our aid if it happened to us?

Japan

The Japanese Foreign Ministry said that it would provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross to assist victims of Hurricane Katrina. Japan also identified needs in affected regions via the U.S. government and provided up to $1,000,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if they receive requests from the U.S. for such assistance. Private and corporate donations totaled over $13,000,000.[33] One Japanese individual, Takashi Endo, donated USD $1,000,000 from his personal funds to Katrina relief efforts.[15]

They already have

http://en.wikipedia....icane_Katrina#J

Do you also believe it's payback for Pearl Harbor?

And then when the nuclear plant melts down and irradiates the west coast it'll be payback for those nukes!

[iargue]

That has to be the most pathetic, fucked up thing you have said on this forums so far...

As for foreign aid, your country receives plenty of foreign aid when it is required. The problem with countries receiving foreign aid is that it's not always transparent and the public don't see just how much aid is being received.

I apologize. The mass murdering of millions of people, does not want a few thousand deaths that prevented much much more deaths.

[Sweeney]

I'm pretty sure that every country involved in providing foreign aid doles out more than it recieves.

That's why it's called "aid" and not a loan.

I apologize. The mass murdering of millions of people, does not want a few thousand deaths that prevented much much more deaths.

Over five times more Japanese people died in WWII than Americans.

[iargue]

I'm pretty sure that every country involved in providing foreign aid doles out more than it recieves.

That's why it's called "aid" and not a loan.


Over five times more Japanese people died in WWII than Americans.

And Japan and Germany together killed more people (non combatants included) then the Allies did....

[Sweeney]

And Japan and Germany together killed more people (non combatants included) then the Allies did....

Most of which were Soviet.
I'm not sure what you're trying to show, though. Is it possible for a country to "deserve" nuclear devastation? In war time?

[Dayzee]

I think we should just mind our own damn business like every other country.
We are in Afghan to help them get a government that they DONT want.

Honestly, if you think that is the only reason we are in Afghanistan, you need to remove your blinders.

[iargue]

Most of which were Soviet.
I'm not sure what you're trying to show, though. Is it possible for a country to "deserve" nuclear devastation? In war time?

There is a difference between asking for it and deserving it.

Its not like it was a surprise. We did tell them that we had it...

[ilovepolkadots]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/asia/15nuclear.html?scp=5&sq=Fukushima&st=cse

yesterdays, but it gives a better overview.
there have been several explosions now, fires, etc.

i don't know if it is in this article or another one but one of the cooling tubes has been severely compromised as well.

Japan has requested assistance from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the International Atomic Energy Agency.

http://www.nytimes.c...nted=2&ref=asia

they are asking for help which is good - at least they aren't fiddling around pretending there isn't a potentially very serious problem here.

[Frank12]

Im just going to throw my two cents in to this conversation. I honestly believe that war is being fought too politically today. In the case of the US war on terror, if the situation was real, they should have just used an atomic bomb and level the place. Or carpet bomb the major centers in which terrorists reside. I may sound incredibly callous, but American Soldiers are dying. Whatever the reason, the approach im offering should have been the one taken. In war, the rule book goes out the window. There is us, and them. You cannot win a war by being politically correct. Civilians will die, but look at the world trade center. It is part of war. You cannot fight war while the other side is making their tactics based on no law. You must stoop down to their level, or else you lose. From a personal preference, i prefer to live with that guilt than to die with honor. Because whether you died in honor or in shame, you are still dead.

Yup, im mentally preparing for humanitarian flame.

But i have to shower, will read your comments earnestly when i get back

Edited by Frank12, 15 March 2011 - 04:57 PM.

[ilovepolkadots]

Thanks. Read that first article you posted looks like shits getting worse. They're playing a huge gamble though... Hoping the winds stay blowing over the pacific rather than turning back towards Tokyo.

I'm actually quite surprised with the events in this one. Given their skills with electronics and technology, among with the fact their machining etc has the finest tolerances in the world (meaning the shit they make is absolutely perfect with no margin for error unlike others who allow for small amounts of error), I thought they would have had some sort of contingency plans in place for this.

+rep when I get home for your giving me the info and attempting to bring the thread back on topic.

For you others, please let's move the debates over to the general debate or start a new thread, it doesn't belong here.

i was thinking the same thing but if the articles i have read about General Electrics practice with creating these cooling systems they aren't created to deal with situations where power cannot be restored fairly quickly.

& no worries :3

as a total there are six reactors - right now reactors 1, 2 and 3 have been filled with seawater and boric acid
with temperatures still rising in 5 and 6
and it was unit 4 the caught fire today

so while things aren't going well there seems to be no indication that any of the cores are melting

[Mr. Hobo]

In the case of the US war on terror, if the situation was real, they should have just used an atomic bomb and level the place. Or carpet bomb the major centers in which terrorists reside. I may sound incredibly callous, but American Soldiers are dying.

nuke the desert to kill terrorists?

[Persuasion]

The Japanese are intelligent. I don't doubt they'll contain this before Godzilla wakes up. They have a lot of experience in that field.

0.0 It's not weather they're smart or not, they're unable to get all the citizens out in in time, they only cover 20 or so kilometers each day due to thier lack of protective clothes/suits from radiation... They should be able to clear the 100 Kilometers to be safe... The government was unprepared. I feel bad for the people, if they live the cancer, I hope they're still sterile...

[iargue]

This is the exact arrogant attitude I am speaking out against.

And its your arrogance that angers me. The numbers clearly state that we give more then we get.

Regardless of if we do or do not get any aide from others. WE GIVE MORE THEN WE GET. And saying we dont, is just arrogance on your part.

I understand that the cooling systems need power restored fairly quickly, what I don't understand is, why was there no real (good) contingency plan as a backup power source in the event of earthquake/tsunami. With quakes and tsunamis happening in the pacific fairly regularly over the past few years one would expect that a "what if" plan should have (but obviously wasnt) been put into place.

My suggestion would have been a large number of large backup generators stored in a safe area, possibly at a military base to be deployed by the military in the event of a quake that cut power.


I guess a keyword to finish that sentence off would be "yet". Unless they are going to be able to stop these rising temperatures a core meltdown is likely to occur.

I wonder if gettig workers in to seal everything up and then simply flooding the entire thing would work. Fires need oxygen in order to continue burning, so sealing everything and then completely flooding it would eliminate the oxygen and the fire would go out. Then the issue is pumping a constant flow of water through to prevent the water from heating up too much.

They have backup diesel power generators, and but those where knocked out by the Tsunami (No one figured both would happen at once). Then it went to battery backup, but those do not last that long.

The biggest flaw is that they have reduced their staff. They should increase their numbers to insure that the reactors get proper cooling. Sending people home to avoid radiation is stupid, unless their laws are horrible. Us safety codes that that they must have a radiation suit for all members working on a base total, So Japan should have enough suits to cover more then 50 staff.

Even if they do not. 400ish people getting radiation sickness is better then thousands.

The only issue that they are facing now is exactly what happened on three mile island. The reactor is damaged, and they need to cool it to prevent meltdown. Its all safe inside of a containment chamber designed to do exactly what its doing. Now they will pump water through the reactor for several months if not years, and then go in and digg out the material, and bury it somewhere.

[iargue]

http://www.google.co...705cc3fe9903eb6

They like making things seem completely horrible