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Only in America...


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#1 WharfRat

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:27 PM

Only in America does a man have to rob a fucking bank to get healthcare... This country is starting to really piss me off and if I could do so without any problem, I would consider emigrating to another nation that puts the benefit of human life over profits...

I put the whole story in spoilers below, but if you want a hard copy; http://www.wsoctv.co...274/detail.html

Spoiler


Discuss.

P.s. Do any of you know of first world nations with socialized medicine and lax immigration policies? :p

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    #2 Louphoria

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:30 PM

    COME TO ENGERLANDZ

    <3

    #3 Waser Lave

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:34 PM

    COME TO ENGERLANDZ

    <3


    Yeah, our border control is like Swiss cheese and we give free medical care to just about anybody who asks for it. :D

    #4 Brennon

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:36 PM

    Take me with you cody!

    #5 WharfRat

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:39 PM

    Yeah, our border control is like Swiss cheese and we give free medical care to just about anybody who asks for it. :D

    haha... I'd like to permanently emigrate, though... not just sneak in for medical care... I don't mind working hard for a living and being taxed to pay for benefits like health care for citizens of my nation. (Though if it's anything like America, you can't get a decent job if you aren't a citizen...)

    #6 Waser Lave

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:42 PM

    haha... I'd like to permanently emigrate, though... not just sneak in for medical care... I don't mind working hard for a living and being taxed to pay for benefits like health care for citizens of my nation. (Though if it's anything like America, you can't get a decent job if you aren't a citizen...)


    What about Canada?

    #7 Brennon

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:44 PM

    Take me with you Cody!

    #8 WharfRat

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:48 PM

    Take me with you Cody!

    I read that the first time you posted it. (Two posts ago.)

    #Waser I'm waiting for some canucks to come lemme know how hard it is to gain citizenship... No criminal history! :p

    #9 Kat

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:04 PM

    This story makes me sad. :(
    Makes me realize that I'm luckier than some even though I can't afford health care or insurance either.
    At least I have a home, a job, and a family to help support me.


    in b4 capt. obvious comment, but it's a sad day when people resort to crime just for health care

    #10 Tetiel

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:15 PM

    I read that the first time you posted it. (Two posts ago.)

    #Waser I'm waiting for some canucks to come lemme know how hard it is to gain citizenship... No criminal history! :p

    Considering I don't even have residency yet and I'm actually married to a Canadian... don't get your hopes up. It's a long freaking wait.

    That guy makes me want to punch him in the face. He had other options as he said. But no, he wants to rob a bank and get out in time to collect social security. This has nothing to do with healthcare, this is a guy that has no freaking clue what he's getting into if he thinks that going to jail is really better than getting real help. I have sympathies for people who truly cannot afford healthcare. I know first hand how it feels, but you do not freaking rob a bank. You always have options and that isn't one of them.

    #11 Mr. Hobo

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:37 PM

    What aboot Canada?


    FTFY

    P.s. Do any of you know of first world nations with socialized medicine and lax immigration policies?


    Canada. New Zealand and Australia are candidates I think.
    Some EU countries are better choices I think but they harder to get into and you need to learn another language plus they have higher tax rates/cost of living

    To become a citizen here, live here for be a permanent resident, live here for 3 years, have no criminal history and pass a history test

    #12 copley

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:51 PM

    I HATE THAT STUPID GUY.

    #13 Kido

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 05:04 PM

    Holy crap. I'm sorry if it may be taken the wrong way but to me this guy is awesome!

    Whenever I'm forced to do something I really REALLY don't want to (eg: kindergarten: swimming. Grade 1: swimming. Grade 2: swimming. Grade 3: swimming..4,5,6....11: swimming...you get the idea). I honestly contemplate just committing a crime and going to jail to get out of it.

    I know it's not as bad as no health care and I live in Canada so I have yet to experience something that bad but still I find the article and the man's actions somehow speaking to me....

    #14 Sinwin

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 05:39 PM

    America has fucked up politicians that is all :)

    #15 Narcissa

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 05:58 PM

    I'm borderline with this...

    On the one hand he said he had family to help him out and now he is a felon so he has a record so his chances of getting a job to support himself when he gets out are very, very slim and he will become like the other inmates. Did he even fucking look into getting help through charitable options? All it says is he "thought about it"; thinking about it and not trying before committing a felon is gonna look real bad on his end. He's also really fucking stupid for not getting a lawyer; even a state appointed one. A lawyer can spin his tale much better than he himself probably could.

    On the other hand, his situation is really, really shitty and I know he's not the only one. Probably had shit credit too since he was renting so he couldn't even get a loan out to see a damn doctor. He wasn't homeless yet; I know that sounds shitty but if you're not homeless you have options.

    I dunno. I think he should've looked further until he really was at his wits ends; doesn't seem like he was to me. Sometimes you have to push your pride aside and ask people for help. It really, really sucks but it's better than going to prison.

    Also, there are plenty of preventive health care measures he could've and should've taken while he still had a job. Planned Parenthood probably would've been within his means and they would've sent him to a low or free-cost clinic if they couldn't help him. :ohwell:

    Just my 2 cents.

    #16 WharfRat

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:22 PM

    I'm borderline with this...

    On the one hand he said he had family to help him out and now he is a felon so he has a record so his chances of getting a job to support himself when he gets out are very, very slim and he will become like the other inmates. Did he even fucking look into getting help through charitable options? All it says is he "thought about it"; thinking about it and not trying before committing a felon is gonna look real bad on his end. He's also really fucking stupid for not getting a lawyer; even a state appointed one. A lawyer can spin his tale much better than he himself probably could.

    On the other hand, his situation is really, really shitty and I know he's not the only one. Probably had shit credit too since he was renting so he couldn't even get a loan out to see a damn doctor. He wasn't homeless yet; I know that sounds shitty but if you're not homeless you have options.

    I dunno. I think he should've looked further until he really was at his wits ends; doesn't seem like he was to me. Sometimes you have to push your pride aside and ask people for help. It really, really sucks but it's better than going to prison.

    Also, there are plenty of preventive health care measures he could've and should've taken while he still had a job. Planned Parenthood probably would've been within his means and they would've sent him to a low or free-cost clinic if they couldn't help him. :ohwell:

    Just my 2 cents.

    I'd like to start from the bottom of your post before I forget... I admittedly do not know much about Planned Parenthood, but are you telling me that a 59 year old single man can walk in there with bone issues and they will redirect him to a low cost clinic...? WTF? Since when does planned parenthood help men who aren't planning parenthood with medical issues? I mean, I know they helped women out with medical stuff... but men too?

    With that out of the way... He was 59 years old and could not find work. (Especially as his medical condition made working difficult for him.) He said he didn't give a damn about being a felon because he had no intention of working any more. His intention is to ride it out until he can collect his social security (that he mentioned that he paid into his whole life) checks. He didn't wish to be a burden on his family (and we don't know what the financial situation of his family is like, either...)so he felt his best option was to become a resident of a prison where he would be afforded health care, free of charge.

    Do I personally think this was a wise move? No, not really. However, it really highlights the bigger issue. I don't particularly care how wealthy this man's family may be, or private options that may not have been explored. What matters to me is that we deny people the right to healthcare based upon their ability to pay, but we grant healthcare to child molesters and murderers. If you are poor or cannot afford healthcare, you go without. I think that this man really is doing this to prove a point and shine the spotlight onto this issue.

    I have mixed feelings about the whole issue, but I know what it's like to be uninsured and have to do without medical care unless you are about to die. It isn't because I wasn't working -- I was working two jobs at the time. However, finding a job in America that offers health insurance is a motherfucker... especially if you are too young to have completed university. Once I severely injured my ankle. (chipped part of the bone off) I absolutely could not walk (and thus, work) for several days at that time and dealt with the excruciating pain for several days praying that the pain would go away on its own if I stayed off of it before heading to see a physician. I went to the "low cost" hospital in my city and they took care of me and assured me that the cost I paid initially was the only fee I would incur. Turns out that what they really meant to say was "That's the only fee we are going to charge you. You will still have to pay whatever the fuck the doctor bills you for." That was two years ago and even today I've received two phone calls from collectors attempting to squeeze blood from a turnip over this incident.

    I won't go in too much further painstaking stories of medical bullshit I've dealt with in this country, but as a final note; I do remember once having health insurance. I went to the hospital and was only there for about an hour and a half. They charged me $700 to sterilize the needle for my IV. $1500 for a drug screening, $200 for 2 ibuprofen tablets, and a slew of other ridiculous charges. My total bill for my insurance company for my hour and a half visit? Over $18,000 dollars. It is for this reason that I -- may or may not have -- committed insurance fraud for the better part of two years any time that I REQUIRED healthcare.

    So as mixed as my feelings are about large government intervention, the role of government in personal lives, the role of a doctor in profitability, and the numerous other social and political implications that this issue takes on, I truly understand the pain and the bullshit of the non-insured in this country.

    Enough ranting for now... :p

    -Cody

    #17 luvsmyncis

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:23 PM

    He nearly gave that woman a heartattack. I'll bet she has shitty healthcare as well and has to be put on pills that will cost her monthly. What a fucking asshole. I see the story is written so that we might sympathize with his hardships, but honestly, he's just another American who wants shit for free.

    LOL @ him getting out in time to collect Social Security and move to the beach. Fuck this worthless son of a bitch.

    And before I get the 'yeah but you're a cold hearted bitch who cares for no one' comments, I know all about chronic pain and suffering. Someone very dear to me suffers from crippling pain on a daily basis, but is not disabled enough for medicare. I understand his situation all too well, but he took the cowards way out. *Kanye Shrug*

    What matters to me is that we deny people the right to healthcare based upon their ability to pay. If you are poor or cannot afford healthcare, you go without. I think that this man really is doing this to prove a point and shine the spotlight onto this issue.


    That simply isn't true. Poor people get Medicaid. It's a shameful experience to fill out all the forms about how poor and worthless you are, but if you do it, you can get Medicaid.

    #18 WharfRat

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:38 PM

    He nearly gave that woman a heartattack. I'll bet she has shitty healthcare as well and has to be put on pills that will cost her monthly. What a fucking asshole. I see the story is written so that we might sympathize with his hardships, but honestly, he's just another American who wants shit for free.

    LOL @ him getting out in time to collect Social Security and move to the beach. Fuck this worthless son of a bitch.

    And before I get the 'yeah but you're a cold hearted bitch who cares for no one' comments, I know all about chronic pain and suffering. Someone very dear to me suffers from crippling pain on a daily basis, but is not disabled enough for medicare. I understand his situation all too well, but he took the cowards way out. *Kanye Shrug*



    That simply isn't true. Poor people get Medicaid. It's a shameful experience to fill out all the forms about how poor and worthless you are, but if you do it, you can get Medicaid.

    You caught me while I was in the middle of editing my post as I wrote that section while on the phone! Drat! :p My point was really that we deny people health care if they make over x amount of money (but still can't afford it), yet we grant free healthcare to murderers and child molesters. I just think it's a fucked up situation that we live in one of the wealthiest nations in the world, yet one of the only first world, westernized nations to not offer healthcare to it's citizens.

    Yes, I know you CAN get on medicaid if you are too poor... but what about people who, like me, were working two shitty jobs to make ends meet and still was unable to afford a hospital visit if necessary? That's the most bizarre thing to me about the whole "welfare" state in america. So many people are drawing unemployment and not taking jobs that they are being offered because unemployment is simply paying them more than the job would! Or that people on food stamps can come to the grocery store I would work at and get a ton of lobster or steak, while I could never afford those items... In the current system, you live better off the government for remaining unemployed than you would for working but making just barely at the poverty limit!

    #19 luvsmyncis

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:48 PM

    Yes, I know you CAN get on medicaid if you are too poor... but what about people who, like me, were working two shitty jobs to make ends meet and still was unable to afford a hospital visit if necessary? That's the most bizarre thing to me about the whole "welfare" state in america. So many people are drawing unemployment and not taking jobs that they are being offered because unemployment is simply paying them more than the job would! Or that people on food stamps can come to the grocery store I would work at and get a ton of lobster or steak, while I could never afford those items... In the current system, you live better off the government for remaining unemployed than you would for working but making just barely at the poverty limit!


    It's all backwards. It's no longer survival of the fittest. The 'undesirables' will be all that remain when people who CAN work, work themselves to death. Then there will be no one to pay out of pocket cash prices for my dear one's medical bills.

    #20 Narcissa

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:39 PM

    Planned Parenthood is much, much more than woman's health; it's time for people to realize this. The majority of their work is yes, for females. However they also have very competent doctors for general health care. It's even on their website. They also, charge by income if you're not on health insurance or medicaid.

    And don't get on my case for not knowing about how fucked up the system is. The majority of debt out there is bills people didn't pay for healthcare. I'm one of those people. I get debt collectors calling me everyday because my insurance decided to drop me, after sending me one notice which I never received, while I was going through brutal testing because my doctors thought I had cancer. I also hurt myself on the job due to the side affect of an antibiotic I was previously on. Insurance wouldn't pay it because it happened while I was working yet my employer couldn't pay it either because it wasn't technically their fault. I was out of a job for 5 months and in a cast and on crutches. I still managed to pay for it on my own though because I know how to manage my money, even living from pay check to pay check. A good portion of the populace has had a least one incident with their health that has fucked them over; this guy ain't the only one.

    And while our health care system is fucked at the present point in time, it's still actually better than what most other places have. There ARE options and I really don't feel like this guy even tried to get help for himself; like I said, preventative measures would've helped him immensely. I don't have pity for those who want to abuse the system and I'm sorry but committing a felon before actually looking for more valid options is a dumb and moronic thing to do.

    #21 WharfRat

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:48 PM

    Planned Parenthood is much, much more than woman's health; it's time for people to realize this. The majority of their work is yes, for females. However they also have very competent doctors for general health care. It's even on their website. They also, charge by income if you're not on health insurance or medicaid.

    And don't get on my case for not knowing about how fucked up the system is. The majority of debt out there is bills people didn't pay for healthcare. I'm one of those people. I get debt collectors calling me everyday because my insurance decided to drop me, after sending me one notice which I never received, while I was going through brutal testing because my doctors thought I had cancer. I also hurt myself on the job due to the side affect of an antibiotic I was previously on. Insurance wouldn't pay it because it happened while I was working yet my employer couldn't pay it either because it wasn't technically their fault. I was out of a job for 5 months and in a cast and on crutches. I still managed to pay for it on my own though because I know how to manage my money, even living from pay check to pay check. A good portion of the populace has had a least one incident with their health that has fucked them over; this guy ain't the only one.

    And while our health care system is fucked at the present point in time, it's still actually better than what most other places have. There ARE options and I really don't feel like this guy even tried to get help for himself; like I said, preventative measures would've helped him immensely. I don't have pity for those who want to abuse the system and I'm sorry but committing a felon before actually looking for more valid options is a dumb and moronic thing to do.

    I'm not attempting to lecture you on how difficult these situations can be. I also don't think that robbing a bank is the brightest way to get healthcare, but I also don't think that he thinks so either. However, sometimes it takes civil disobedience for the issue of national healthcare to be brought up... or someone pointing out, by throwing themselves in prison, how fucked up it is that there are hard working people who cannot afford to see a doctor while murderers are afforded that opportunity. It's total bullshit and I think that it is time that we move forward! Something really has to give... I can't wait until 2014 when "Obamacare" kicks in! (Provided we don't get some assholes in congress to over turn it!)

    #22 Narcissa

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:05 PM

    I'm not attempting to lecture you on how difficult these situations can be. I also don't think that robbing a bank is the brightest way to get healthcare, but I also don't think that he thinks so either. However, sometimes it takes civil disobedience for the issue of national healthcare to be brought up... or someone pointing out, by throwing themselves in prison, how fucked up it is that there are hard working people who cannot afford to see a doctor while murderers are afforded that opportunity. It's total bullshit and I think that it is time that we move forward! Something really has to give... I can't wait until 2014 when "Obamacare" kicks in! (Provided we don't get some assholes in congress to over turn it!)


    Or instead of committing a felon he could've pleaded with state senators, gone on a strike outside the state capital, looked into low cost and or/free clinics, asked family for help, etc, etc. Instead he broke the law so that he could be even more of a burden to tax payers who're more than likely in the same position. Yeah, it sucks but why does he get to be so special when they're plenty of people out there right now trying to make ends meet and not committing crimes? Dude was dumb and it's difficult to give pity to those who're moronic.

    And as to Obamacare; better in theory than it will be in practice. If anything I can only see it deteriorating national health care than helping it. Good concept and all but gonna be difficult to pull off.

    I'm done beating this horse. In the end I think this guy was being rather selfish and should've looked to alternatives; I don't really feel pity for him.

    #23 Guest_jcrgirl_*

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:17 PM

    It could always be worse. Also that planned parenthood thing was so informative. I recently found out that only 3% of what they do in planned parenthood in general was abortions so I was seriously wondering what else they did.

    Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins. This dude would rather do it the easy way then go to a charity. But to be honest I don't think it would have been much help anyway. It's a lose lose for a lot of people, and I don't think the 2014 Obamacare thing is going to do any good. Its a change... but not a very big one. :/

    Usually, if you're sneaky and have friends who are insured and have doctors they are cool with, the doctors can bill your friends and treat you. They let it slide... I do believe that it's illegal but whatever. Nobody has to know, right?

    And if that doesn't work, those guys who beg on the subway for money get paid quite a bit. BUT I don't think it's enough for medical bills. Doctors be greedy. Posted Image

    #24 WharfRat

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:17 PM

    Or instead of committing a felon he could've pleaded with state senators, gone on a strike outside the state capital, looked into low cost and or/free clinics, asked family for help, etc, etc. Instead he broke the law so that he could be even more of a burden to tax payers who're more than likely in the same position. Yeah, it sucks but why does he get to be so special when they're plenty of people out there right now trying to make ends meet and not committing crimes? Dude was dumb and it's difficult to give pity to those who're moronic.

    And as to Obamacare; better in theory than it will be in practice. If anything I can only see it deteriorating national health care than helping it. Good concept and all but gonna be difficult to pull off.

    I'm done beating this horse. In the end I think this guy was being rather selfish and should've looked to alternatives; I don't really feel pity for him.

    You clearly don't understand the principle of civil disobedience. Yes, he is being more of a burden to taxpayers. THAT'S THE POINT. How often do you read articles in the newspaper or see on the news some guy pleading with a senator? How about a lone person standing outside of the capitol protesting? It doesn't get coverage and is ineffective. What if they say no? The point of this act is to be a burden to the tax payers. It's to point out a flawed system by its very nature! He said he doesn't care about the felony as he doesn't plan on working any more in his life and it won't hurt his chances of employment.

    tldr; Yes it is selfish... and that's the point.

    As to Obamacare? Yes, it likely will not do enough in most cases... I would have preferred a single payer system, but sometimes, in a situation of extreme need, you make compromises... (Besides, with Obamacare, you still have all of your "choices" to pay out of the ass to remain uninsured, or to choose private insurance. The point is really to offer coverage to those unable to obtain insurance at an affordable price at the moment.)

    #25 Narcissa

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    Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:23 PM

    You clearly don't understand the principle of civil disobedience. Yes, he is being more of a burden to taxpayers. THAT'S THE POINT. How often do you read articles in the newspaper or see on the news some guy pleading with a senator? How about a lone person standing outside of the capitol protesting? It doesn't get coverage and is ineffective. What if they say no? The point of this act is to be a burden to the tax payers. It's to point out a flawed system by its very nature! He said he doesn't care about the felony as he doesn't plan on working any more in his life and it won't hurt his chances of employment.

    tldr; Yes it is selfish... and that's the point.

    As to Obamacare? Yes, it likely will not do enough in most cases... I would have preferred a single payer system, but sometimes, in a situation of extreme need, you make compromises... (Besides, with Obamacare, you still have all of your "choices" to pay out of the ass to remain uninsured, or to choose private insurance. The point is really to offer coverage to those unable to obtain insurance at an affordable price at the moment.)


    Sooo... he's abusing the system while good tax paying people who're trying to figure out if they can pay for their food or mortgage or prescriptions this month are getting fucked over because this guy doesn't want to actually put some effort into fending for his own god damn self?

    Cry me a river, I don't care. He's not making a point. He's abusing the system for his own betterment and it's a dick move to pull. End of story.


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