203 replies to this topic

[Melchoire]

I'm all for the mod's actions being logged.

Resetting ranks is not harmful. But when you have spots for a select few to begin as "leaders" that's just gonna raise all manners of heck. Members will get jealous or angry etc...the plan might be better executed if we let the tender trio (Hydro, SL and Noit) start it from scratch but that's too much work and in the end I don't see what it accomplishes. Besides, Retired is a rank that should only be earned with time, simply giving it away en mass would feel disingenuous.

I'm all for advertising GFX and Programming but that sounds like a lot of work. Even to plan out.

E: wow! 8 pages...no one's gonna read this now...unless...SEX

[Sage]

#1: I'd personally kinda like a readily-accessible (like, top of the main codex page, big bright link, 'dumbasses no longer have an excuse for missing this' accessible) list of the Admins all in one spot. I could probably do a search and find them myself, but the point is ease of access, and cutting out extra steps. Edit: I finally found the mod link!...way at the bottom of the front page, next to three other links I've never seen and just above the list of who's online at the moment. ... A bit hidden, there.

#2: What problem is this fixing, exactly? Is this functionally just an expansion of point 1?

#3: Promote how, random linking at people? Also, good crap on a crutch, you want little modlets all over the place, don'tcha?

#4: Yeah this is one area where things have been sorely lacking. Mods, I love (most of) you (platonically but on rare occasion unnaturally), but you gotta get synchronized and be up-front with everybody when you do stuff.

#5: Sigh.

#6: Why is it in every community I've ever been in where there's been a forum presence and an IRC presence, the two have been at odds with one another? There's plenty wrong with "persuading" the users of one to move to the other.

Why do IRC users need to use the forum? Why don't you go to IRC? Why don't people... you know... use both if they want to? It doesn't exactly make any difference one way or the other. IRC is faster, forums allow for larger single posts, combined they are an efficient machine. Get a little bi-curious. Nothing wrong with that, either.

#7: The rules need the same thing as the admin list; first-page, LOOKIT THE BIG SHINY LINK YOU TWAT linkage. Here they are, you cannot whine when you fail to read them.


#9: Users already repost stuff from outside sources. I'm not sure why you want bots to start doing that. If you want to see reddit and stuff, go to reddit?

#11: If they left, let them leave. I don't say this to be ruthless, quite the opposite actually; people get tired of things after a while. If they left, they left for a reason, and if they want to come back, they will.

#13: I think I'm seeing a trend here of you wanting these forums to combine all the things you personally want out of the internet so you don't have to go looking for them.

#14: Advertising is fine, but not on rival sites. No point in being assholes. Also, the neopets boards? What?

Edited by cuddlydemon, 10 May 2012 - 12:01 AM.

[Scot]

Why are you people acting like mods are power tripping and spin a wheel to pick people to warn? If anything they have little to no power because of you people like cops who witness someone getting robbed but can't take action until someone actually gets stabbed and they are like "MOVE IN MOVE IN...... OFFICER DOWN"

[Nymh]

I am not trying to be dense or difficult, here, so bear with me.

I am trying to figure out what it is that people are referring to that mods do without documentation. I get that people have been warned in the past for stupid reasons, but I don't think that anyone who has been warned recently has had no reason to be warned. Looking at the Banned/Suspended/Warns forum, there are topics that date back to 2004 in there, so I am having a hard time with the concept of "never seeing a reason for a warn." What else should be done other than posting the infringing content, rules broken and disciplinary action in the appropriate forum?

4. Training for moderators. God damn some of the newer ones are thick as shit. No diplomacy, bad with words/explanations and constantly arguing.

If a moderator actions something, log it. Deleted posts, closed topics, warnings, whatever. Log it and EXPLAIN to the member in question why they have chose that action.

#4: Yeah this is one area where things have been sorely lacking. Mods, I love (most of) you (platonically but on rare occasion unnaturally), but you gotta get synchronized and be up-front with everybody when you do stuff.

I can get behind the concept of more training for moderators. I don't know how Strat or Elin feel (or Bog for that matter) but when I was promoted I was basically told:

1. Log into IRC often
2. Stick to your section
3. Spambots, emergencies and status updates are free reign to all mods
4. If you have a question, ask
5. Don't be afraid to do stuff, we will support you

That is all nice to know, but it doesn't give me any idea of "how things are done" around here as far as moderation goes. From day one it has been really a "learn as you go" kind of process for me. I have been trying to read as many of the old drama, warnings, rules, staff topics and hidden posts in threads as I can to see why and how things are done, but no one is holding my hand or coaching me that's for sure (and really they shouldn't have to, it's not rocket science). For most decisions that require any thought we talk among ourselves before an action is taken, but for little things like moving threads and stuff there isn't really a need for staff consensus in my opinion.

All moderator actions are logged already. It is much easier on this new board to see who has done what, and it even gives a place for us to give a reason, but admins had the ability to see that before the upgrade anyway. That information is not posted publicly for all to see, but it is there. I think probably the only thing that we don't do out of what has been mentioned is tell people when and why we have hidden their posts. We post when we lock topics, we post when we move them, warns are posted publicly. I would be happy to send users a PM whenever I hide a post of theirs. I can understand that people may sometimes be confused at why something has been hidden but I think in most instances when something disappears it is pretty obvious why.

I have no qualms with everyone being able to see all of my moderator actions. I can't speak for the other 3 mods, but it's not like anything we do is controversial anyway. One worry that I have is that this might develop into people saying that they want to be able to see the content the posts or topics that we have hidden so that they can make their own decisions on whether or not it warranted being hidden.

[redlion]

I am trying to figure out what it is that people are referring to that mods do without documentation. I get that people have been warned in the past for stupid reasons, but I don't think that anyone who has been warned recently has had no reason to be warned. Looking at the Banned/Suspended/Warns forum, there are topics that date back to 2004 in there, so I am having a hard time with the concept of "never seeing a reason for a warn." What else should be done other than posting the infringing content, rules broken and disciplinary action in the appropriate forum?

If you're referring to me or Friz in a round about way, I can understand the difficulty in seeing it. Yes, the forum existed back then, but there was much less discipline among mods as to what constituted a warnable offense, what sort of reason needed to be published, and in general, less consistency. My example was personal, but there are plenty of others.

Nowadays, we're supposed to post the rule that was violated as well as the post that violated it (that might have changed, depending on how offensive it is) but back in the day staff would issue warns for silly stuff like "I'm tired of his mouth" or "bypassing swear filter" back when we had a swear filter. The first one didn't violate a rule, and the second one violated a stupid one. Not that I blame Icey for that

[Sage]

I am not trying to be dense or difficult, here, so bear with me.

I am trying to figure out what it is that people are referring to that mods do without documentation. I get that people have been warned in the past for stupid reasons, but I don't think that anyone who has been warned recently has had no reason to be warned. Looking at the Banned/Suspended/Warns forum, there are topics that date back to 2004 in there, so I am having a hard time with the concept of "never seeing a reason for a warn." What else should be done other than posting the infringing content, rules broken and disciplinary action in the appropriate forum?

I can get behind the concept of more training for moderators. I don't know how Strat or Elin feel (or Bog for that matter) but when I was promoted I was basically told:

1. Log into IRC often
2. Stick to your section
3. Spambots, emergencies and status updates are free reign to all mods
4. If you have a question, ask
5. Don't be afraid to do stuff, we will support you

You basically stated the only things I personally had any concern with. The recent promotion-without-vote snafu sprang to mind too though I don't know offhand it that got resolved or what (I personally didn't care very much).

[OriginalFake]

I haven't been on this site long enough, but I feel like there are definitely members(Won't name anyone) who think that their seniority allows them to be pompous fucks. Besides that, I love codex so far and a lot of the people are really friendly and genuine .

[Sweeney]

I wonder if people think that I act the way I do because I think my time here makes me entitled.

I don't think that's the case. I think I've pretty much always behaved the way I do.

(Lots of thinking.)

[trizzle]

I wonder if people think that I act the way I do because I think my time here makes me entitled.

I don't think that's the case. I think I've pretty much always behaved the way I do.

(Lots of thinking.)

I tried to find your first post to see if this is true but I can only stalk see back to 2011

[OriginalFake]

I wonder if people think that I act the way I do because I think my time here makes me entitled.

I don't think that's the case. I think I've pretty much always behaved the way I do.

(Lots of thinking.)

Wasn't directed at you btw.
If that's what you were thinking

Edited by OriginalFake, 10 May 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[Adam]

I wonder if people think that I act the way I do because I think my time here makes me entitled.

I don't think that's the case. I think I've pretty much always behaved the way I do.

(Lots of thinking.)

You're right, there's many people here including myself, that have been here as long if not longer that don't act the way you do.

[Ladida]

You basically stated the only things I personally had any concern with. The recent promotion-without-vote snafu sprang to mind too though I don't know offhand it that got resolved or what (I personally didn't care very much).

Wasn't this done by Admins? I don't know if Mods had anything to do with that, but I don't think they were responsible.

[Maloo]

Oh Gosh, I've missed this place

The biggest issue with getting people to change and be less hostile is that they don't believe they are actually doing it. For instance, this thread is an example of Sweeney being hostile to others standards, but not to his own standards. He thinks he is just being normal, and hes done nothing that should be forbidden, while others disagree.

I'm at fault of this myself. I enjoy arguing with people because it shows their point of view better then if they just say a small bit of it. I make great strides to reduce the amount of arguing that I do to try and better myself as a person, but its hard to continue to do so when I read something someone said and I instantly think "I wonder how they would defend their argument if I countered with this"

The bottom line is that the members that are hostile to others, don't actually see themselves as being hostile. This makes it very hard to set a standard for people to follow, as they believe in their mind that they are following this standard.

Also new members are commonly guilty of the same attitude as well. Especially people who post minimal amount of information possible but demand instant help. If hostilities are to be eliminated, those people would have to go as well.

I just love myself for holding on to this
"[22:57] <Iargue> I'm sick of people thinking that I have to listen to them, or do what they say. You are here to use my programs. You are here because of the services that I provide. Therefor you should be accepting what I say should be, as what they should be"

That sure sounds like someone who LOVES to argue, huh?

[iargue]

Oh Gosh, I've missed this place


I just love myself for holding on to this
"[22:57] <Iargue> I'm sick of people thinking that I have to listen to them, or do what they say. You are here to use my programs. You are here because of the services that I provide. Therefor you should be accepting what I say should be, as what they should be"

That sure sounds like someone who LOVES to argue, huh?

That has nothing to do with me wanting to argue or anything.

That was to do with people telling me that my choices for Beta Testers was stupid, when the choices were not even my own choice (There was someone else voting with me on it). That has nothing to do with an argument in a debate section, or anywhere else. That has to do with people telling me my choices for my beta team were stupid.

I wonder if people think that I act the way I do because I think my time here makes me entitled.

I don't think that's the case. I think I've pretty much always behaved the way I do.

(Lots of thinking.)

Its not so much you acting the way you do because you are old, but you getting away with acting that way because you are an older member. Most new people feel that older people get much more slack when it comes to the rules, then the newer people do. That is where their issue is.

[Maloo]

Its not so much you acting the way you do because you are old, but you getting away with acting that way because you are an older member. Most new people feel that older people get much more slack when it comes to the rules, then the newer people do. That is where their issue is.

Well I'd dare say you're a great example of that.

[Junsu]

2. Wipe out. Wipe all ranks and start fresh. This includes mods. A select few will then choose certain members to stay as moderators and elect a new retired and private leader.

These leaders then elect a few people to join the ranks immediately. They then join through the old voting process.

11. Try and engage older members to participate or come back. We all miss Kim, Matt, Michie and the older yanks who don't come on here any more.

14. Advertise the site more. Advertise on google, rival sites, yahoo and MSN groups, the Neopets boards and other new related communities.

I found the boobs quite annoying to remove.

2. Yes~

11. Who is "we"

14. No. Increase of noobs.


IMO the new people get more leniency because they have the excuse of not knowing the rules yet. I havent really seen any older members getting leniency. Maybe its because people dont report

[Frizzle]

Its not so much you acting the way you do because you are old, but you getting away with acting that way because you are an older member. Most new people feel that older people get much more slack when it comes to the rules, then the newer people do. That is where their issue is.

You should have been banned. You're a perfect example of older members getting slack because if any newer member had done what you had, they would be on their backside.

[Junsu]

You should have been banned. You're a perfect example of older members getting slack because if any newer member had done what you had, they would be on their backside.

Doubt that you could find anymore.

[redlion]

You're right, there's many people here including myself, that have been here as long if not longer that don't act the way you do.

The way you said that makes it sound like he's a petulant child. He only points out when people are wrong. Sure, he's vocal about it when he doesn't need to be, but there's nothing wrong with telling people they're wrong. Otherwise they'd go on thinking that their incorrect statement was fact, which would perpetuate the cycle of ignorance!

If you don't like the way he says things, that's your right. But until he breaks a rule by telling someone not only that they're wrong, but that they're an imbicilic shit stain of an excuse for a human being, then he won't be warned for it. Simple as.

11. Who is "we"

14. No. Increase of noobs.

IMO the new people get more leniency because they have the excuse of not knowing the rules yet. I havent really seen any older members getting leniency. Maybe its because people dont report

11. "We" refers to the retired members that would have been the original audience for this post. Anyone who's been here longer than PRBM knows the people Frizzle is talking about, or at least of them. I use PRBM because she's been here a while, but not long enough to really personally know any of the people we're talking about. In terms of retired members, she's still "new" to the rank. I've had it for about seven or eight years myself.

14. Everyone is a noob sometime.

[Junsu]

11. "We" refers to the retired members that would have been the original audience for this post. Anyone who's been here longer than PRBM knows the people Frizzle is talking about, or at least of them. I use PRBM because she's been here a while, but not long enough to really personally know any of the people we're talking about. In terms of retired members, she's still "new" to the rank. I've had it for about seven or eight years myself.

14. Everyone is a noob sometime.

Isnt there a retired forum :<
Do you think that retired people coming back would socialize with everyone or just the other retired members?

Point taken :<

[Scot]

Isnt there a retired forum :<
Do you think that retired people coming back would socialize with everyone or just the other retired members?

Point taken :<

There is no such thing as a retired forum

[Elindoril]

Spoiler

I am not trying to be dense or difficult, here, so bear with me.

I am trying to figure out what it is that people are referring to that mods do without documentation. I get that people have been warned in the past for stupid reasons, but I don't think that anyone who has been warned recently has had no reason to be warned. Looking at the Banned/Suspended/Warns forum, there are topics that date back to 2004 in there, so I am having a hard time with the concept of "never seeing a reason for a warn." What else should be done other than posting the infringing content, rules broken and disciplinary action in the appropriate forum?




I can get behind the concept of more training for moderators. I don't know how Strat or Elin feel (or Bog for that matter) but when I was promoted I was basically told:

1. Log into IRC often
2. Stick to your section
3. Spambots, emergencies and status updates are free reign to all mods
4. If you have a question, ask
5. Don't be afraid to do stuff, we will support you

That is all nice to know, but it doesn't give me any idea of "how things are done" around here as far as moderation goes. From day one it has been really a "learn as you go" kind of process for me. I have been trying to read as many of the old drama, warnings, rules, staff topics and hidden posts in threads as I can to see why and how things are done, but no one is holding my hand or coaching me that's for sure (and really they shouldn't have to, it's not rocket science). For most decisions that require any thought we talk among ourselves before an action is taken, but for little things like moving threads and stuff there isn't really a need for staff consensus in my opinion.

All moderator actions are logged already. It is much easier on this new board to see who has done what, and it even gives a place for us to give a reason, but admins had the ability to see that before the upgrade anyway. That information is not posted publicly for all to see, but it is there. I think probably the only thing that we don't do out of what has been mentioned is tell people when and why we have hidden their posts. We post when we lock topics, we post when we move them, warns are posted publicly. I would be happy to send users a PM whenever I hide a post of theirs. I can understand that people may sometimes be confused at why something has been hidden but I think in most instances when something disappears it is pretty obvious why.

I have no qualms with everyone being able to see all of my moderator actions. I can't speak for the other 3 mods, but it's not like anything we do is controversial anyway. One worry that I have is that this might develop into people saying that they want to be able to see the content the posts or topics that we have hidden so that they can make their own decisions on whether or not it warranted being hidden.

Although I won't disagree with some training if the others deemed it necessary, I haven't seen or dealt with any situation (so far) that I didn't know completely what to do or was so unsure of what actions to take that I was taking a complete leap of faith. Moderation isn't really rocket science as far as the basic stuff goes, and (thankfully) that's usually what the bulk of the reports and problems are.

Like Nymh said, we do talk among ourselves when dealing with bigger problems, so it's not like there's a complete lack of communication between us, so nobody has to worry about us just acting on our own without any consent and help from the rest of the team.

I do feel like though that the actions of the moderators that aren't already publicly logged should have to be released to the public, the bulk of it isn't anything important or flashy at all, and things (like hidden posts) aren't anything that people should read after it has been moderated anyways, since it was removed for a specific reason anyways, and if was bad enough, people will get a nice explanation of what it was when they read the warn/ban topic about it.

Nowadays, we're supposed to post the rule that was violated as well as the post that violated it (that might have changed, depending on how offensive it is) but back in the day staff would issue warns for silly stuff like "I'm tired of his mouth" or "bypassing swear filter" back when we had a swear filter. The first one didn't violate a rule, and the second one violated a stupid one. Not that I blame Icey for that

I PM the user with the reason why I hid their post after I hide already, although if people want me to keep it public and post in the thread instead, I'll oblige, even though I like to keep things private as to not draw as much attention from the masses.

[Sweeney]

I haven't seen or dealt with any situation (so far) that I didn't know completely what to do or was so unsure of what actions to take that I was taking a complete leap of faith.

That doesn't necessarily mean that you made the best decision.

[Yung]

From all my past experiences in being staff for other sites we were never expected to make the best decision but we were expected to do our best in making decisions.

[Elindoril]

That doesn't necessarily mean that you made the best decision.

I might not, although I always hope I have.

I haven't had any opposition towards my own decisions yet, so I've always assumed it was acceptable.