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Do you believe in extraterrestrial life?


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#76 Romy

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:02 PM

Other planets with sentient life forms are also extremely unlikely, yet you didn't discard the possibility.


Life exists elsewhere? Probable.
As intelligent/more intelligent then us? Unlikely.


and when I was responding to coltom

Your theory is based on the assumptions that a) intelligent life does indeed exist and b) They have been around significantly longer then we have and c) they have developed technology capable of interstellar travel.

That's 3 variables.
Safest bet is to say that life exists elsewhere but has not developed the technology to even communicate with us.


I think I covered my bases pretty well.

Life on another planet does NOT necessarily have to be multicellular coltom.

Just because something is ALIVE doesn't make it intelligent.


Edited by Ivysaur, 13 September 2012 - 10:01 PM.


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    #77 Drakonid

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    Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:13 PM

    As intelligent/more intelligent then us? Unlikely.


    Safest bet is to say that life exists elsewhere but has not developed the technology to even communicate with us.

    So you either don't know what discard means, or you just really enjoy quoting yourself.

    #78 Romy

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    Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:30 PM

    So you either don't know what discard means, or you just really enjoy quoting yourself.

    Means to get rid of or reject something.

    Only something intelligent can be sentiment. Only something multi-cellular can be intelligent.
    I fail to see the hole in my logic or where I didn't address sentient life being unlikely (at least indirectly).

    I just quoted the posts you failed to read. Sorry if I underestimated you.

    Edit: Jeez. How long did it take you to set up that quote frenzy?

    Edited by Ivysaur, 13 September 2012 - 10:31 PM.


    #79 Sweeney

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:25 AM

    This whole thread has become hilarious. I am laughing at all of you. All of you.

    #80 Romy

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:28 AM

    This whole thread has become hilarious. I am laughing at all of you. All of you.


    Care to share your insights?
    I believe you have a bit more knowledge is this sort of thing.

    #81 luvsmyncis

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:05 AM

    Care to share your insights?
    I believe you have a bit more knowledge is this sort of thing.


    Just because he's been abducted and probed doesn't mean he knows more!

    #82 Sweeney

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:05 AM

    So, given the age of the universe, the amount of time for civilizations to evolve, and even with no FTL travel ram-jet fusion ships could have explored the whole universe, with self-replicating machines to either watch, conquer, or just play head games, WHERE ARE THE ALIENS


    With no FTL travel, it would take 6.9 billion years to reach the edge of the visible universe (assuming the early departure date; leaving now would take almost ten times as long). It took 4.5 billion years for life to reach the current stage of development on earth, and we are still incapable of interstellar travel. Even so, that gives us a rough baseline of 11.4 billion years ago for the formation of this society's planet. That's 2.5 billion years after the big bang.

    Not impossible, but implausible, relying on early cataclysmic starbursts to reach the levels of metallicity required to form planets with atmosphere.

    Even if we assume that this society does exist, they'd have to be within around 200 lightyears of Earth to begin to have an inkling that we were here. We only began broadcasting radio waves then.

    Or, assuming that they have sufficiently advanced scanning capabilities, they'd have had to be (or passed) within a billion light years of Earth to be able to scan, receive results and arrive, since the estimated emergence of life. Even that's assuming that they're interested in life, or our planet. (A sphere of radius one billion lightyears represents around 1/738763 of the volume of the observable universe).

    Given their extreme age, the physiological differences between them and us are likely to extraordinary. Our late-stage solar system is unlikely to be of particular interest. Given that limited life forms are so common, our early stages of evolution are equally likely to be uninteresting.

    The Fermi paradox is not a paradox at all.

    #83 Nymh

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:17 AM

    With no FTL travel, it would take 6.9 billion years to reach the edge of the visible universe (assuming the early departure date; leaving now would take almost ten times as long). It took 4.5 billion years for life to reach the current stage of development on earth, and we are still incapable of interstellar travel. Even so, that gives us a rough baseline of 11.4 billion years ago for the formation of this society's planet. That's 2.5 billion years after the big bang.

    Not impossible, but implausible, relying on early cataclysmic starbursts to reach the levels of metallicity required to form planets with atmosphere.

    Even if we assume that this society does exist, they'd have to be within around 200 lightyears of Earth to begin to have an inkling that we were here. We only began broadcasting radio waves then.

    Or, assuming that they have sufficiently advanced scanning capabilities, they'd have had to be (or passed) within a billion light years of Earth to be able to scan, receive results and arrive, since the estimated emergence of life. Even that's assuming that they're interested in life, or our planet. (A sphere of radius one billion lightyears represents around 1/738763 of the volume of the observable universe).

    Given their extreme age, the physiological differences between them and us are likely to extraordinary. Our late-stage solar system is unlikely to be of particular interest. Given that limited life forms are so common, our early stages of evolution are equally likely to be uninteresting.

    The Fermi paradox is not a paradox at all.


    Physiological differences would have to be pretty extraordinary indeed for any extraterrestrial race to be able to survive a trip from their planet to ours.

    Our closest star (other than our sun) is Proxima Centauri, which is about four and a quarter light years away, but I don't think any intelligent life could survive in its habitable zone just because of the nature of that particular star. The Alpha Centauri system is only a little farther at 4.37 light years. So thaaaat's... 2.568904417x1013 miles away. How far is that? 25,689,044,170,000 miles. Over 25 and a half trillion miles away. How is any life form, let alone space craft, going to survive a trip of 25.7 trillion miles? And that's the second closest star to us.

    #84 Sweeney

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:29 AM

    Physiological differences would have to be pretty extraordinary indeed for any extraterrestrial race to be able to survive a trip from their planet to ours.


    Well, it wouldn't necessarily have to be a survivable trip. I'm sure any interstellar-capable species could cope with a little cryogenics. Or it could be a generationship.

    #85 Nymh

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:48 AM

    Well, it wouldn't necessarily have to be a survivable trip. I'm sure any interstellar-capable species could cope with a little cryogenics. Or it could be a generationship.


    Pffft, generationships

    Cryogenics is an interesting option. How long would it take to get here, though, I wonder. Completely ignoring the gravitational pull from our sun, or the fact that I'm using figures based on solar orbiters which is quite different than what we could expect from interstellar probes...

    The fastest thing we've put into space (Helios II) goes about 70km/second. Time for some more fast math! *computes*

    hahaha

    Ok at 70km/second it would take 19,201.45 years to get from Earth to the Alpha Centauri system. That's a lot of generations. I wonder if they would cull? They'd probably have to. Cryogenics might work, I guess, but keeping a team of bodies frozen for 19k years would take even more energy from this craft that's already having to make a 25.7 trillion mile journey through space without refueling...

    #86 Guest_coltom_*

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:52 AM

    Pffft, generationships

    Cryogenics is an interesting option. How long would it take to get here, though, I wonder. Completely ignoring the gravitational pull from our sun, or the fact that I'm using figures based on solar orbiters which is quite different than what we could expect from interstellar probes...

    The fastest thing we've put into space (Helios II) goes about 70km/second. Time for some more fast math! *computes*

    hahaha

    Ok at 70km/second it would take 19,201.45 years to get from Earth to the Alpha Centauri system. That's a lot of generations. I wonder if they would cull? They'd probably have to. Cryogenics might work, I guess, but keeping a team of bodies frozen for 19k years would take even more energy from this craft that's already having to make a 25.7 trillion mile journey through space without refueling...


    If people have no souls, than all they are is biological constructs with a certain amount of storeable information.
    Ramjets, traveling at 0.7c, and the aliens have been everywhere in the universe. Yet they have not, or have they?

    Bussard Ramjet, they've decreased the speeds from my day
    http://en.wikipedia..../Bussard_ramjet

    Also, the galaxy is only 100,000–120,000 light-years across. So at .1c it only takes a million years to make it across.

    You really think death would exist in a species with a million years of technology.

    Edited by coltom, 14 September 2012 - 07:58 AM.


    #87 Sweeney

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:54 AM

    Ok at 70km/second it would take 19,201.45 years to get from Earth to the Alpha Centauri system. That's a lot of generations. I wonder if they would cull? They'd probably have to. Cryogenics might work, I guess, but keeping a team of bodies frozen for 19k years would take even more energy from this craft that's already having to make a 25.7 trillion mile journey through space without refueling...


    Solar wind!
    Didn't you ever watch SG:U? :p

    #88 Waser Lave

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:58 AM

    Pffft, generationships

    Cryogenics is an interesting option. How long would it take to get here, though, I wonder. Completely ignoring the gravitational pull from our sun, or the fact that I'm using figures based on solar orbiters which is quite different than what we could expect from interstellar probes...

    The fastest thing we've put into space (Helios II) goes about 70km/second. Time for some more fast math! *computes*

    hahaha

    Ok at 70km/second it would take 19,201.45 years to get from Earth to the Alpha Centauri system. That's a lot of generations. I wonder if they would cull? They'd probably have to. Cryogenics might work, I guess, but keeping a team of bodies frozen for 19k years would take even more energy from this craft that's already having to make a 25.7 trillion mile journey through space without refueling...


    You assume that they'd need to actually travel the full distance between A and B, if they had very advanced technology it's not beyond reason that they could discover how to make and use wormholes to bridge between A and B much quicker than they could travel in a straight line. ;)

    #89 Sweeney

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:00 AM

    You assume that they'd need to actually travel the full distance between A and B, if they had very advanced technology it's not beyond reason that they could discover how to make and use wormholes to bridge between A and B much quicker than they could travel in a straight line. ;)


    No, she's operating under the imposed restriction of no FTL travel. Warping timespace counts as FTL travel :p

    #90 Nymh

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:02 AM

    If people have no souls, than all they are is biological constructs with a certain amount of storeable information.
    Ramjets, traveling at 0.7c, and the aliens have been everywhere in the universe. Yet they have not, or have they?

    Bussard Ramjet, they've decreased the speeds from my day
    http://en.wikipedia..../Bussard_ramjet

    Also, the galaxy is only 100,000–120,000 light-years across. So at .1c it only takes a million years to make it across.

    You really think death would exist in a species with a million years of technology.


    I prefer to base my calculations on interstellar travel on working technology, not theoretical methods of propulsion.

    Solar wind!
    Didn't you ever watch SG:U? :p


    *ahem* No...only SG:1. Speaking of which, don't we have some Firefly to finish? :p

    #91 Waser Lave

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:02 AM

    No, she's operating under the imposed restriction of no FTL travel. Warping timespace counts as FTL travel :p


    Technically you wouldn't have to travel faster than light locally at any time so I'd say it doesn't count as FTL travel. :p

    #92 ElBastardoVerde

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:07 AM

    FALSE. On so many levels.

    String-theory is a purely mathematical framework. We don't have any empirical evidence to support it. Doesn't mean it isn't a theory.


    Oh, right, I forgot. There's never any exceptions to any rules.

    #93 Yung

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:07 AM

    You assume that they'd need to actually travel the full distance between A and B, if they had very advanced technology it's not beyond reason that they could discover how to make and use wormholes to bridge between A and B much quicker than they could travel in a straight line. ;)


    Or assimilate a near by location they know about. Or bend time/realize time is merely a concept.

    More plausibly I am willing to agree with the cryogenics possibility. Generationships pose too many problems, even for a species that has a much greater longevity than humans.

    #94 Guest_coltom_*

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:08 AM

    I prefer to base my calculations on interstellar travel on working technology, not theoretical methods of propulsion.



    If you live in the present, then you are living in the past.

    You can not assume that a species with a million, or 10 million years of civilization is restricted to early 21st century technology.



    #95 Sweeney

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    Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:12 AM

    Technically you wouldn't have to travel faster than light locally at any time so I'd say it doesn't count as FTL travel. :p


    It does from an external point of reference. So there :p

    Or assimilate a near by location they know about. Or bend time/realize time is merely a concept.


    Time is not merely a concept, it's woven into the fabric of space.

    You can not assume that a species with a million, or 10 million years of civilization is restricted to early 21st century technology.


    But you specified no FTL travel anyway, which means that exploring the entire universe within a million years is utterly unfeasible.

    #96 Bone

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    Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:05 PM

    First I will state briefly that I personally believe that we, specifically our descendents, realize that time itself irrelevant and can pass freely through it. They know that they themselves create the universe and they take all of the matter in the universe together and ignite it as the big bang. Thus creating themselves.


    lol

    #97 Mew

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    Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:19 PM

    Seems like I opened a can of worms here. :ph34r:

    #98 Sweeney

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    Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:09 AM

    Seems like I opened a can of worms here. :ph34r:


    You misspelled "idiots".

    #99 Galadriel

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    Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:16 AM

    First I will state briefly that I personally believe that we, specifically our descendents, realize that time itself irrelevant and can pass freely through it. They know that they themselves create the universe and they take all of the matter in the universe together and ignite it as the big bang. Thus creating themselves.


    Am I allowed to add this to my signature?

    #100 Yung

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    Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:40 AM

    You can try and ridicule me all you want and it just makes you both seem like baboons.

    It is a logical explanation of the existence of everything. Just as good as any explanation they can teach at school, church, home, corner store, crack pipe, ect...


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