50 replies to this topic

[artificial]

I think it depends on the area, but yes, the DEA has been known to raid several stores in one day.

Not where I'm from. They're everywhere. And if they do get raided they'll just open another one up somewhere else in a week or so.

I believe it was on new dispensaries in CA. Since I believe there were so many they decided at after a certain year you have to either close down or something liek that.

Source: http://www.nytimes.c...-sick.html?_r=0

[Waser Lave]

I couldn't care less.

[Mishelle]

Source: http://www.nytimes.c...-sick.html?_r=0

That article is filled with so much judgmental bullshit it was hard for me to even get through it.

“Medical marijuana dispensaries are very much like what they distribute: they’re weeds,” he said. “You cut them down, you leave, and then they sprout back up.”

Like I said once they shut one down another opens up and it's a waste of time and money to try to shut these things down. We're already broke as hell.

It's a complete and total waste of time. You can't go after the clinics for something the doctors are doing. First of all it's stupid because you can't look at someone and tell they have cancer, secondly cancer isn't the only thing they give medical marijuana for. They give it for PMS, loss of appetite, insomnia, headaches, basically anything, all you have to do is find the right doctor to write the prescription. My ex saw a random doctor via skype, told the guy he had crohn's disease and had a prescription in 30 minutes for $100. So they can't even prove that they're not selling to actual patients unless they're going to all of their records. These are probably people who think you have to be on your deathbed to get a prescription for weed.

[tri]

It would go down. Up in LA there's a medical marijuana spot on every corner like a Starbucks because they don't raid clinics. There you can get it for way cheaper than down here because they all tend to be clustered together so there's a lot of competition. Where I currently live a lot of clinics get raided and shut down by the police so there's less competition and prices go up. Clinics here charge double what I can get it for in LA. And I think you could probably get it even cheaper in the Bay Area where they've built their own little mini Amsterdam.

Yes but I can see as soon as the drug companies get a hold of it because probably some people can not smoke it due to lung problems it will be quite expensive.

[Mishelle]

If they can't smoke they can vaporize. They also put it in cookies, brownies, chocolate, and tons of other food. they also put it in drinks or just sell weed oil and they can squirt it on their tongue.

The stoners have covered all their bases when it comes to processing weed.

Edited by Mishelle, 14 November 2012 - 12:31 PM.

[Dazz]

Or have it in edibles.

[tri]

If they can't smoke they can vaporize. They also put it in cookies, brownies, chocolate, and tons of other food. they also put it in drinks or just sell weed oil and they can squirt it on their tongue.

The stoners have covered all their bases when it comes to processing weed.

That reminds me. On the news there was a guy who's house caught on fire of something and he grew a bunch of marijuana and the smoke mad everyone like around the area high. lol

[Mishelle]

Lol sounds like some happy neighbors

[cheunge]

weed laws shudnt even be a priority for the feds to work on. let states do it, different ppl in different states have differnt majority opinions anyways, lets just keep the states together yeah?

[redlion]

"Should they..." and "Will they..." are two entirely different questions.

Why the federal government will not honor such legislation

That's not to say I agree with the federal government's official position, but it does have holding Constitutionally.

States cannot overrule the US government if Congress has explicitly legislated some area of law. Supremacy only holds when there is a conflict between state and federal statutes, which limits supremacy's affect in some sense, but the supremacy of federal legislation is not limited to cases where the federal government is authorized to legislate explicitly in the constitution, as Mishelle argues. If that were the case, we wouldn't have federal Clean Air Acts, or federal vehicle safety, emissions, and fuel economy standards. Nowhere in the Constitution is such legislation authorized.

Unless the power to legislate in a particular area has been reserved to the states, and has been upheld in the courts, it's unlikely that any state law would take primacy over a federal statute.

Spoiler

All that being said, there are several ways around the supremacy of federal drug guidelines.

First, as Obama was supposedly doing, the president can direct the DEA and other enforcement agencies to simply turn a blind eye to federal law breaking in areas where no state law is being broken, eg medical marijuana sales in California.

Second, get a legalize fan in the DEA. Good luck with that though.

Third, we can simply pass legalization referendums in as many states as possible, so that the de facto legal position of marijuana is legal, even if the de jure federal position is still illegal.

[Yung]

Second, get a legalize fan in the DEA. Good luck with that though.

The issue with this part would be the job displacement of so many DEA personnel that have dedicated their lives toward preventing use and legalization.

[Satine]

I live in a country where it's already decriminalized(The Netherlands), and I couldn't care less. Don't know why it's suc a big deal in other parts of the world. The only thing I hate about it is that freaking sweet smell yuck...

Though I have to say that one of my cats ate from the marihuana plants a neighbour of my had on his rooftop terrace, that was freaking hilarous.(didn't harm the cat)

[brothulhu]

Don't know why it's suc a big deal in other parts of the world.

Take your pick:
-Years of misinformation and fear mongering
-It is associated with a negative lifestyle
-It IS an addictive substance (ironically, in the US alcohol and nicotine are still legal)
-It is a well-known gateway drug (people often do not know what this means and get all huffy; cigarettes and alcohol are gateway drugs as well)
-Religious factions taking an opposing stance
-Racism
-No convincing reason for the drug to be legal (that is not to say there is a good case for decriminalization)
-There is still not a medical consensus on the benefits of marijuana. There are studies, but still no general consensus among medical professionals. They're pretty dang close, though.

Beyond people wanting to get high without consequences, I see no real reason to legalize marijuana. The only compelling argument I've ever heard is for the taxation of marijuana, and there is some uncertainty to whether that would actually generate a profit. Take alcohol for example. It actually costs the US government (state and federal) more through government sponsored programs, damages (drunk driving related), medical costs, etc. than it gets back in taxes. The projected revenue from marijuana taxes is highly overvalued in my opinion.

I do see the merits behind decriminalization, however. This would reduce the amount spent on enforcement and incarceration (a much bigger profit "gain" than the proposed tax). Keeping it illegal would give full jurisdiction over large corporations and individuals who would otherwise profit from a market that has no limits of how it can abuse the sale of marijuana to the public.

Edited by brothulhu, 04 December 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[Satine]

Honestly I don't see the appeal in using marihuana. What I meant is that I can't imagine why you would decriminalize it. Medical marihuana is just a stupid excuse IMHO. There are other types of medication that can have he same results, without feeling high tough.
We have enough trouble with drugs tourists in the Netherlands as it is, can imagine the same problems in other countries where it is decriminalised.

[jinq]

sure, why not? although I don't see the point of using such a substance.

[brothulhu]

Honestly I don't see the appeal in using marihuana. What I meant is that I can't imagine why you would decriminalize it. Medical marihuana is just a stupid excuse IMHO. There are other types of medication that can have he same results, without feeling high tough.
We have enough trouble with drugs tourists in the Netherlands as it is, can imagine the same problems in other countries where it is decriminalised.

It's mostly to reduce the ridiculous amount of money spent on processing people for petty crimes like possession. Also, I completely agree with your sentiments on other forms of medication. They're usually extremely expensive. People usually flock behind marijuana because of its low cost. However, if marijuana is legalized, it is not unlikely that the cost of medical marijuana will skyrocket.

Edited by brothulhu, 05 December 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[jinq]

oh and if the feds don't honor the state's decision, the states are gonna start begging foreigners for money. I think money is one main reason why states legalized it in the first place

[GGGun]

no, at that point the federal government ceases to exist

[locust]

I just hope the profitability of legalization comes out before the FG takes a defining stance. That's going to save Washington/Colorado more than anything.

[sliceupepper]

Live in Amsterdam :]

[kittycat]

In a political structure that allows for states, yes.

[Random]

Yes. I think that the state's law should supersede federal law except in cases where federal law has the power. Federal laws aren't supposed to have anything to do with drugs.

This is a really fucking stupid post.

[Habanero]

Should they? Yes.
Do they have to? No. Federal law is above State law.

[redlion]

Take your pick:
-It IS an addictive substance (ironically, in the US alcohol and nicotine are still legal)
-It is a well-known gateway drug (people often do not know what this means and get all huffy; cigarettes and alcohol are gateway drugs as well)
-Religious factions taking an opposing stance
-Racism
-No convincing reason for the drug to be legal (that is not to say there is a good case for decriminalization)
-There is still not a medical consensus on the benefits of marijuana. There are studies, but still no general consensus among medical professionals. They're pretty dang close, though.

Take alcohol for example. It actually costs the US government (state and federal) more through government sponsored programs, damages (drunk driving related), medical costs, etc. than it gets back in taxes. The projected revenue from marijuana taxes is highly overvalued in my opinion.

I want to take your points one at a time.

First, marijuana is non-addictive. Period. You cannot form a physical addiction, nor a mental addiction to marijuana. You can form a habit, but that is not the same thing as an addiction. You can form a habit of have a morning cup of coffee, or read a newspaper while you shit. Doesn't mean you're addicted to either of those actions.

Second, if you want to call pot a gateway drug, you should recognize that it's only a gateway because it's illegal. You have to go to a drug dealer to buy marijuana. As the act of possessing, the act of selling, and the intent to distribute marijuana are all illegal, is it any wonder that drug dealers are likely to sell other drugs as well? Go for broke. Most of them are anyway.

I have no idea why I (or anyone else for that matter) should care that religious organizations are opposed. The Mormons are against caffeine consumption, and the Shakers are opposed to sex. Does that stop anyone from their morning cuppa, or from giving their significant other some TLC?

Racism? Lolwut.

No convincing reason for the plant to be legal - you must be kidding. Hemp makes better paper, rope and cloth than lumber or cotton, and at a cheaper production cost to boot. This set of facts is the reason (but not the justification) for the initial law outlawing marijuana; the lumber and cotton lobbies took issue with someone stepping on their turf, so they started a smear campaign.

Besides that, hemp with an active THC content (i.e. marijuana) has been proven to relieve pain in cancer patients, lower blood pressure of the eye for glaucoma patients, and has been used as a treatment for stress, trauma and a variety of more specific diseases and disorders.

As to your bullshit claim that alcohol costs more in regulation than it generates in sin taxes, I'd like some source before I take the time to fully respond. You obviously don't know anything about how alcohol and cigarettes are taxed in the US, or you'd know that 90% of the cost of cigarettes and probably half the cost of liquor (varies by state) is taxes. That's taxes before you hit the register and pay sales tax.

Really, this may be a forum about a kids game, but that doesn't mean you can just make stuff up and people will believe you. You won't convince me the tooth fairy is real either.

[brothulhu]

I want to take your points one at a time.

First, marijuana is non-addictive. Period. You cannot form a physical addiction, nor a mental addiction to marijuana. You can form a habit, but that is not the same thing as an addiction. You can form a habit of have a morning cup of coffee, or read a newspaper while you shit. Doesn't mean you're addicted to either of those actions.

Second, if you want to call pot a gateway drug, you should recognize that it's only a gateway because it's illegal. You have to go to a drug dealer to buy marijuana. As the act of possessing, the act of selling, and the intent to distribute marijuana are all illegal, is it any wonder that drug dealers are likely to sell other drugs as well? Go for broke. Most of them are anyway.

I have no idea why I (or anyone else for that matter) should care that religious organizations are opposed. The Mormons are against caffeine consumption, and the Shakers are opposed to sex. Does that stop anyone from their morning cuppa, or from giving their significant other some TLC?

Racism? Lolwut.

No convincing reason for the plant to be legal - you must be kidding. Hemp makes better paper, rope and cloth than lumber or cotton, and at a cheaper production cost to boot. This set of facts is the reason (but not the justification) for the initial law outlawing marijuana; the lumber and cotton lobbies took issue with someone stepping on their turf, so they started a smear campaign.

Besides that, hemp with an active THC content (i.e. marijuana) has been proven to relieve pain in cancer patients, lower blood pressure of the eye for glaucoma patients, and has been used as a treatment for stress, trauma and a variety of more specific diseases and disorders.

As to your bullshit claim that alcohol costs more in regulation than it generates in sin taxes, I'd like some source before I take the time to fully respond. You obviously don't know anything about how alcohol and cigarettes are taxed in the US, or you'd know that 90% of the cost of cigarettes and probably half the cost of liquor (varies by state) is taxes. That's taxes before you hit the register and pay sales tax.

Really, this may be a forum about a kids game, but that doesn't mean you can just make stuff up and people will believe you. You won't convince me the tooth fairy is real either.

First of all, you're hilariously off-the-mark. This is a big misunderstanding. I'm not trying to argue that marijuana should not be legalized. I'm only listing the many points of contention surrounding this issue. These are not my opinions. These are the major talking points surrounding the issue of marijuana legalization. Let me go through them for you.

Addiction: My use of the term refers to the definition as provided by the American Psychological Association. You can find scholarly, peer-reviewed articles on marijuana being an addictive substance for yourself. Here's a good place to start: http://www.apa.org/t...tion/index.aspx. It is certainly recognized by the psychology community that marijuana is addictive. Here's something specific and fairly recent (2011).

Gateway drug: I do not necessarily agree with the assertion that marijuana is a gateway drug, but it is one of the most commonly used arguments against marijuana. That's why I listed it.

Religious factions are opposed. That is a fact.

Racism is often associated with anti-legalization. I don't feel like I need to go into detail, but I'll just say that Black and Hispanic Americans are often the targets here. There are racists in this country and people use that information to obtain political advantages. That's a given.

The "there is no convincing reason to legalize the drug" reason is obviously hotly debated, but most voters who have been indifferent to legalization have this opinion. I actually had data for this at one point, but it would be quite irrelevant now. There was a recent article in the NYTimes about how marijuana legalization is growing substantially in support. Regardless, I only included it because it has been a common point of opposition to legalization.

The medical benefits of marijuana are also not well-founded. That is not to say that benefits have not been discovered, it is only to say that it is still a very young study in medicine. Again, not using this to argue against, only pointing out facts.

Finally, we come to alcohol. What exactly about my claim is bullshit? The estimated amount of revenue collected by alcohol per year in taxes is $5.6 billion. I do not even have to go into detail here. Alcohol-related car accidents alone cost taxpayers an estimated $50 billion each year. That's ten times the amount gained in taxes. We're not even taking into consideration the costs of rehabilitation programs, other alcohol-related medical costs, and the billions lost in productivity. I will go out on a limb here and include my personal opinion that I think alcohol abuse is a more apparent threat to society than marijuana use.

Before you write some very heated response, remember that I was only answering a question as to why marijuana is perceived and treated as a "big deal." I am not defending the points. I am not arguing against marijuana. Honestly, I don't care one way or another because I do not smoke. I also want to say that I do not harbor any ill feelings toward you for the misunderstanding.

Have a good day.