88 replies to this topic

[Romy]

How on Earth is that an explanation?

 

I asked you "Why do people deserve these things?", and you have responded by saying "It is their right to have these things".

If you asked me "Why did you eat my cookie?", would you accept "It was my right to eat that cookie" as an answer!?

 

Nope. Because having access to food and water isn't stealing from anyone.

They deserve these things solely because THEY ARE HUMAN.

Hence why I said "fundamental human right".

Are you daft?

Well, congratulations on being a biological anomaly

 

Altruism is exhibited by plenty of animals.

Did you ask them first?

Overheard one of them say he was hungry.

Edited by Ivysaur, 23 April 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[Sweeney]

Nope. Because having access to food and water isn't stealing from anyone.

And yes.

They deserve these things solely because THEY ARE HUMAN.

Hence why I said "fundamental human right".

Are you daft?

 

Altruism is exhibited by plenty of animals.

 

Where do these "fundamental human rights" come from? Are there also fundamental bird rights? Lizards rights?

It's adorable that you're implying that I'm daft when you don't even understand your own post.

 

And which animals?

[NapisaurusRex]

Nope. Because having access to food and water isn't stealing from anyone.



Overheard one of them say he was hungry.

It's stealing if there isn't enough food for everyone.

So you eavesdropped, potentially disregarded someone's pride, and gave to them to make yourself feel better?

Sounds masturbatory to me.

[Sweeney]

You don't deserve those privileges! Especially with your spelling of privileges.

 

... nope.

It's stealing if there isn't enough food for everyone.

So you eavesdropped, potentially disregarded someone's pride, and gave to them to make yourself feel better?

Sounds masturbatory to me.

 

You forgot to add "posted about it on a public forum to prove a point about altruism". Self-defeating.

[NapisaurusRex]

... nope.


 
You forgot to add "posted about it on a public forum to prove a point about altruism". Self-defeating.

I thought we were all smart enough for me to not have to say that.

[Sweeney]

I thought we were all smart enough for me to not have to say that.

 

...now, I know you've been reading Ivysaur's posts, so I can't see how you thought that at all

[NapisaurusRex]

...now, I know you've been reading Ivysaur's posts, so I can't see how you thought that at all

lol I'm sure you can already tell I've been having a sub-par night.

[Romy]

It's stealing if there isn't enough food for everyone.

So you eavesdropped, potentially disregarded someone's pride, and gave to them to make yourself feel better?

Sounds masturbatory to me.

They were both asking for money so I doubt I insulted their pride. I was walking past them to get into the gas station; heard one of them say it; then walked out with a coke, 2 waters and 2 sandwiches.

If it was masturbatory, so be it. Dgaf.

 

You forgot to add "posted about it on a public forum to prove a point about altruism". Self-defeating.

 

Assuming I'm to gain something from this discussion?

 

Where do these "fundamental human rights" come from? Are there also fundamental bird rights? Lizards rights?

It's adorable that you're implying that I'm daft when you don't even understand your own post.

 

And which animals?

smh

 

Meerkats.

[Sweeney]

smh

 

Meerkats.

 

I will never ever get tired of watching you involved yourself in conversations that you don't have the nous to participate in, and then make the most transparent evasions I've ever seen to avoid replying substantively. It's one of the few things about Codex that still genuinely entertains me.

 

What exactly about meerkat behaviour is altruistic?

Edit: Also, one species of mongoose does not constitute "plenty of animals".

[Romy]

I will never ever get tired of watching you involved yourself in conversations that you don't have the nous to participate in, and then make the most transparent evasions I've ever seen to avoid replying substantively. It's one of the few things about Codex that still genuinely entertains me.

 

What exactly about meerkat behaviour is altruistic?

Edit: Also, one species of mongoose does not constitute "plenty of animals".

 

To be honest, I could just say that it is a right awarded to human beings by a higher power though, you'd just dismiss that. W/e.

 

 

Any species of animal that cries out in order to alert other members of it's group of an approaching threat.
I'm sure you can apply that to plenty of different species.

[Sweeney]

To be honest, I could just say that it is a right awarded to human beings by a higher power though, you'd just dismiss that. W/e.

 

 

Any species of animal that cries out in order to alert other members of it's group of an approaching threat.
I'm sure you can apply that to plenty of different species.

 

Well obviously I'd dismiss that, because it's stupid. If it's awarded by a higher power, using the term "right" is incorrect. A "right" is intrinsic, by definition. On top of that, basing a system of morals on a higher power is flawed, since it is mutable according to the will of the higher power.

And look, see that little "W/e." on the end there? That's another cute little deflection.

 

Yes, I can apply that behaviour to a number of different species. My degree in zoology probably helps me a little with that.

Why is that altruistic behaviour?

(Pro tip: I know exactly why it isn't altruistic behaviour, but the foreplay is the fun part.)

[Frizzle]

Yes, I can apply that behaviour to a number of different species. My degree in zoology probably helps me a little with that.

Why is that altruistic behaviour?

(Pro tip: I know exactly why it isn't altruistic behaviour, but the foreplay is the fun part.)

 

 

Ohh ohh, is it self preservation Mister Joe?

[Romy]

Well obviously I'd dismiss that, because it's stupid. If it's awarded by a higher power, using the term "right" is incorrect. A "right" is intrinsic, by definition. On top of that, basing a system of morals on a higher power is flawed, since it is mutable according to the will of the higher power.

And look, see that little "W/e." on the end there? That's another cute little deflection.

 

Yes, I can apply that behaviour to a number of different species. My degree in zoology probably helps me a little with that.

Why is that altruistic behaviour?

(Pro tip: I know exactly why it isn't altruistic behaviour, but the foreplay is the fun part.)

And depending on what belief system you use, the will of that higher being is immutable. Although,this is not a discussion about my personal religious beliefs.

 

Precisely why I said you can apply that to a plethora of different species you braggart.

It's altruism because by crying out, the animal in question attracts the attention of whatever threat is approaching.

Although one could argue that the preservation of similar genes is the objective of the animal, I doubt most (if not all) of the animals that partake in this behavior are capable of such understanding.

Edited by Ivysaur, 23 April 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[Nymh]

Without reading this zoological/altruistic/masturbatory clusterfuck argument (or really any of the posts in this topic because sorry cbf) I don't always respect someone who does any one thing.  People are complex and one redeeming quality does not earn them my respect.  There are certain things that will cause me to see a person in a more positive light, and there are things that I appreciate people, but I don't just grant someone my respect because they can play cello or they admit when they're wrong.

 

 

[Sweeney]

And depending on what belief system you use, the will of that higher being is immutable. Although,this is not a discussion about my personal religious beliefs.

 

Precisely why I said you can apply that to a plethora of different species you braggart.

It's altruism because by crying out, the animal in question attracts the attention of whatever threat is approaching.

Although one could argue that the preservation of similar genes is the objective of the animal, I doubt most (if not all) of the animals that partake in this behavior are capable of such understanding.

 

Uh... what exactly is the point of a being with immutable will? It'd be moot

 

Oh, my, your understanding of the mechanisms at work is truly limited. Do you honestly think a meerkat sees a predator and consciously decides to sacrifice its own life so that it's buddies back at the tunnels might survive? And it's not the preservation of "similar genes", but identical alleles that is the priority, and for that matter not even preservation but likelihood of proliferation.

Congratulations of doing a little more research, and attempting to preempt my response, though. A valiant, though flawed, effort.

Without reading this zoological/altruistic/masturbatory clusterfuck argument (or really any of the posts in this topic because sorry cbf) I don't always respect someone who does any one thing.  People are complex and one redeeming quality does not earn them my respect.  There are certain things that will cause me to see a person in a more positive light, and there are things that I appreciate people, but I don't just grant someone my respect because they can play cello or they admit when they're wrong.

 

That's what I said

[Waser Lave]

Without reading this zoological/altruistic/masturbatory clusterfuck argument (or really any of the posts in this topic because sorry cbf) I don't always respect someone who does any one thing.  People are complex and one redeeming quality does not earn them my respect.  There are certain things that will cause me to see a person in a more positive light, and there are things that I appreciate people, but I don't just grant someone my respect because they can play cello or they admit when they're wrong.

You loved-up bastards are mirroring each other now.

[Nymh]

That's what I said

 

Ugh you're going to make me want to read this topic now.  *goes to look*

 

...

 

*stareface*

You loved-up bastards are mirroring each other now.

 

We do it uncannily often.

[Sweeney]

You loved-up bastards are mirroring each other now.

 

Now? Oh, LW, you have no idea.

[Romy]

Uh... what exactly is the point of a being with immutable will? It'd be moot

 

Oh, my, your understanding of the mechanisms at work is truly limited. Do you honestly think a meerkat sees a predator and consciously decides to sacrifice its own life so that it's buddies back at the tunnels might survive? And it's not the preservation of "similar genes", but identical alleles that is the priority, and for that matter not even preservation but likelihood of proliferation.

Congratulations of doing a little more research, and attempting to preempt my response, though. A valiant, though flawed, effort.

 

So...you're arguing that they consciously decide to ensure the perpetuation and spread of similar alleles by calling attention to themselves?

You did not take a stance really.

And my point still stands, I doubt most animals that partake in this behavior are capable of such understanding.

[Sweeney]

So...you're arguing that they consciously decide to ensure the perpetuation and spread of similar alleles by calling attention to themselves?

You did not take a stance really.

And my point still stands, I doubt most animals that partake in this behavior are capable of such understanding.

 

No, there's nothing conscious about it.

That behaviour promoted persistence of the genetic material that caused that behaviour, so the behaviour persisted.

 

It's really not that complicated, and it's definitely not altruistic.

 

But perhaps you'd like to have another go?

[Romy]

No, there's nothing conscious about it.

That behaviour promoted persistence of the genetic material that caused that behaviour, so the behaviour persisted.

 

It's really not that complicated, and it's definitely not altruistic.

 

But perhaps you'd like to have another go?

So meerkats that do not engage in this behavior have a higher level of fitness no? Then wouldn't this behavior be "bred" out?

[Sweeney]

So meerkats that do not engage in this behavior have a higher level of fitness no? Then wouldn't this behavior be "bred" out?

 

I... what? Are you even reading my posts?

 

The sentry behaviour results in an increase in fitness.

[Romy]

I... what? Are you even reading my posts?

 

The sentry behaviour results in an increase in fitness.

You argued that this behavior persisted because the relatives of the animal assuming the role of a sentry pass on the alleles that perpetuate that behavior.
(You're forgetting that on average, or genetic structure is only 50% similar to that of our siblings.)

What's to say that the behavior will be passed on each time? Seems unlikely to me since the specific carrier of those genes get gobbled up by an eagle.

[Sweeney]

You argued that this behavior persisted because the relatives of the animal assuming the role of a sentry pass on the alleles that perpetuate that behavior.
(You're forgetting that on average, or genetic structure is only 50% similar to that of our siblings.)

What's to say that the behavior will be passed on each time? Seems unlikely to me since the specific carrier of those genes get gobbled up by an eagle.

 

Yes, I am definitely forgetting a basic aspect of genetic inheritance.

Meerkat groups contain an average of 20 members. These members are all related to the alpha couple.

When you live with 20 members of close family, saving all of their lives means that there's a good chance your genetic material will proliferate by proxy. And that's not considering the fact that the guard doesn't always dies.

 

Something "seeming unlikely" to you is clearly a poor measure of reality.

[Romy]

Yes, I am definitely forgetting a basic aspect of genetic inheritance.

Meerkat groups contain an average of 20 members. These members are all related to the alpha couple.

When you live with 20 members of close family, saving all of their lives means that there's a good chance your genetic material will proliferate by proxy. And that's not considering the fact that the guard doesn't always dies.

20-40.

The groups constantly fission and beta males/females leave when they are around 3 to find mates.
Not all the meerkats in a group are related to each other.