62 replies to this topic

[Trichomes]

I guess I have mixed feelings when it comes to gender identity.

 

On one hand, I believe everyone should be allowed to be who they want to be, and that everyone deserves to be treated equally.

 

However, this is excessive. People dwell too much on vocabulary, which creates an even larger divide. You shouldn't need your own personal made-up word that defines your gender to validate your existence.

 

For the purpose of filling out forms (or whatever), shouldn't Male/Female/Other be sufficient? When asked to select your race, it's not like they list every possible option or combination.

[Sweeney]

If you were to put me pregnant in the kitchen with an apron and a pot roast, I'd be one happy mother fucker.

I guess I'm a 'cis female'

That doesn't make you a cis female.

For the purpose of filling out forms (or whatever), shouldn't Male/Female/Other be sufficient? When asked to select your race, it's not like they list every possible option or combination.

Well, they don't just list White/Black/Other either

The easiest way to do it would be to simply not ask.

[NapisaurusRex]

That doesn't make you a cis female.

I have no idea what cis means. I was just going off my interpretation of the op, which is probably what the people who actually fill out this kind of survey would do.

[Keil]

Cis (word stems from sameness) means your gender is traditionally correlated with your sex.

 

Ex. You identify as a womanly/female person and have a vagina at the same time.

[luvsmyncis]

The easiest way to do it would be to simply not ask.

Or just quit letting people mate outside their race. Makes it hard to fill out forms if you're both white and hispanic.

[Sweeney]

Or just quit letting people mate outside their race. Makes it hard to fill out forms if you're both white and hispanic.

Very true. I think we can trace a lot of humanity's problems back to the legalisation of interracial marriage.

[Tetiel]

Just made up terms for people who wish to be difficult and complain when they aren't treated right. There are only two genders, male and female, that's a scientific fact right there.

What about those with ambiguous genitalia or simultaneous hermaphrodites? While relatively rare, there are those out there who do not have clearly identifiable phenotypes such as XXY. Medicine actually supports intersex and its definitions and we're finding more and more about it as time goes on.

[Doomsday]

What about those with ambiguous genitalia or simultaneous hermaphrodites? While relatively rare, there are those out there who do not have clearly identifiable phenotypes such as XXY. Medicine actually supports intersex and its definitions and we're finding more and more about it as time goes on.

I think that only a 3rd requirement should be on any forms that request gender information should be sufficient but at most 4 (Male / Female / Other / Prefer not to say)

 

If you classify yourself as other, then you are under no obligation to fall under any form of label and can be whoever the fuck you want to be.  Under 'official' documents however, I guess there is still currently a need to select 'Male' or 'Female'.

 

Given that there are so many 'options' towards gender now, should the question of gender even be asked?  Could removing the labelling of gender further pave the way for equal rights in marriage because there's no longer a requirement to be identified as Male/Female and we're all just 'human'?  There'd be no such thing as 'same sex couples', people would just be a 'couple'.

 

Of course, I don't see this happening in the real world, because there are so many people still adamantly against gay or lesbian couples being recognised as 'normal people deserving of the same treatment as everyone else'.

[GhostMommy]

What about those with ambiguous genitalia or simultaneous hermaphrodites? While relatively rare, there are those out there who do not have clearly identifiable phenotypes such as XXY. Medicine actually supports intersex and its definitions and we're finding more and more about it as time goes on.

Not that rare, some estimates are as high as one in two hundred. 

[nandhugp]

There are only two gender.The genders that are listed above are because of the release of some fluid.

[Turnip]

I'm a cisfemale But I'm cool with being called dude/bro/etc

 

I guess I'm not really in the position to say this since I'm not trans but... I don't understand why people get so upset over someone identifying as something other than male or female! It doesn't affect you in any way and it makes them feel right so what's so bad about it? If someone referred to you as a gender you don't identify as then you'd correct them, so you'd feel more comfortable when they're talking to you, right? Because if they kept using something which isn't your gender then it'd feel like they weren't talking about you. So what's the problem with doing that for someone else? Sure they might ask you to use pronouns you haven't heard of, or singular they, but that isn't going to make the world explode is it!! If you forget which pronouns they use just ask! If you fuck up just apologise and say you won't do it again rather than make a huge fuss over it. You'd correct yourself for using the wrong pronouns on someone's pet so it isn't hard to do it for a person at all.

 

Besides, who are you to tell someone that they're wrong about something they feel? About something so personal. That's incredibly rude!! I was pretty pissed off when people in my high school started referring to me as a guy and used he/him/etc, even though I've always been pretty feminine (I know this is pretty cissexist but please bear with me). No matter how much I tried correcting them they just didn't listen! "Nah, you're a guy! You look like a guy so clearly you are one!!". I know who I am so listen to me damnit!

Of course this didn't last too long since they were just looking for ways to get under my skin and bully me and all, but jesus christ. I couldn't imagine dealing with the harassment from ANYONE (including your parents/etc) and not just a couple of dweebs in your school, which could happen at any point in your day, anywhere. Not being taken seriously or just plain ignored because "I obviously know you more than you know you, so do what makes me personally feel comfortable!" "even though you say you're x gender, that doesn't exist in my book so obviously you're wrong!", all that shit must be so... exhausting. I don't even know what word to use. Again I'm only a cisgender person so I have no idea what sort of shit trans people go through but god it makes me upset just thinking that my trans friends might have have been bullied over what they identify as. No one should have to go through that. To add to that it doesn't exist in my book bit, why do you have to be so against the thought of someone identifying as something that "doesn't exist" in our ever-changing language. Is it really so bad to add new words to this, words which are directly related to someone's identity and comfort? I think it's a great thing. I don't want my friends to feel like there's something wrong with them just because of some words not existing, and I certainly wouldn't want to feel that way either if I was questioning my gender. You know, I've seen plenty of times where people say "well the world isn't fair so you shouldn't get any special treatment!". What an awful mindset. Why shouldn't people be nice towards others? Is there a single reason to be an asshat to someone who hasn't done anything to you. There's absolutely nothing from stopping you from being a decent human being and nothing bad comes out of it so you might as well not make someone's day complete shit.

 

Also @Kate, you don't actually know if you've never met a trans person or not! Even if they don't want to, some people go along with their assigned at birth gender so they can avoid the drama shit altogether, or because they're being forced to, or for any number of other reasons. It's something that a lot of people get overly offended by which can affect your safety and possibly get you killed, so its not something that everyone's gonna show to the whole world.

"But people are murdered everyday! Including cis people!" some of you guys might think, but are they being killed simply because they're trans and possibly nothing else? No? Well there's that.

Edited by Turnip, 27 April 2014 - 09:39 PM.

[GhostMommy]

I'd like to step back  and ask what is the purpose of asking "gender".   Is it for statistical purposes, equal opportunity reviews, or is it to bunk students together in dorm housing.   Would you want to be a cis female rooming with a  non-cis (gay) female,  would you let a male and female room together if they were both non-cis? 

 

More importantly, how many two-spirit Native Americans are actually going to school in Sydney, does not seem like there would be enough for a whole category on the forms.

 

More importantly, do you realize this student magazine tried to print pictures of women's vaginas on their cover?  

 

Also, apparently it rained jellyfish. 

 

http://www.news.com....9-1226887605357

[Sweeney]

Not that rare, some estimates are as high as one in two hundred.

Did the word "relatively" in Steph's post pass you by?

I'd like to step back  and ask what is the purpose of asking "gender".   Is it for statistical purposes, equal opportunity reviews, or is it to bunk students together in dorm housing.   Would you want to be a cis female rooming with a  non-cis (gay) female,  would you let a male and female room together if they were both non-cis?

Being non-cis-gender does not make a person gay

[Galadriel]

57 options and they didn't include otherkin?? Oh lordy..

 

 

omg this.

[Keil]

 Would you want to be a cis female rooming with a  non-cis (gay) female,  would you let a male and female room together if they were both non-cis? 

 

Sweeney beat me to me. Non-cisgendered/trasgendered behavior does not equate to homosexuality or indicate any form of sexual preferences in a partner. Back when the Discovery Channel had nothing but documentaries and void of pawn shops and competitive warehouse buying, there was a documentary about this 28-30ish old man fresh from the army getting a male to female sex change operation and records his 2 year process. He dated women before the operation and even continued to do so after his operation. Don't ask me what his sexual label is because I am confident in myself to say I don't know.

 

Also you (as in the person in that hypothetical situation) can't assume that your room mate will be attracted to you just because of their self-identification or even sexual preferences for the matter. You can be offputting, ugly, or just annoying for all we know.

[Frizzle]

What about those with ambiguous genitalia or simultaneous hermaphrodites? While relatively rare, there are those out there who do not have clearly identifiable phenotypes such as XXY. Medicine actually supports intersex and its definitions and we're finding more and more about it as time goes on.

Oh come on, that's like finding a double rainbow! They're so rare it just adds a dollop of grey to a pretty black and white subject. Sexuality I can understand (although personally I just see it as straight, gay and bi) but gender is a pretty clear thing.

You are either male or female, just like every other species out there.

[Waser Lave]

Oh come on, that's like finding a double rainbow! They're so rare it just adds a dollop of grey to a pretty black and white subject. Sexuality I can understand (although personally I just see it as straight, gay and bi) but gender is a pretty clear thing.

You are either male or female, just like every other species out there.

 

That's biological sex, not gender. Gender refers to the differences between masculinity and femininity.

[Frizzle]

The two are pretty synonymous.

[GhostMommy]

Male and female are not the only two choices in biology.  A worker honey bee being a case in point.

The two are pretty synonymous.

No, they are not.  "Masculine and feminine" are societal constructs about how its members are suppose to react, biology is about who has ova and who has sperm. 

[Turnip]

The two are pretty synonymous.

 

Is there a reason why they have to be synonymous? If someone doesn't feel comfortable with their assigned at birth gender then they shouldn't have to be forced to just stick with it because some person thinks they should. Even if they are comfortable with their assigned gender, why do they need to stick with the stereotypical shit? If you're a cismale but you like feminine things then that should be that. You're just a cismale who likes feminine things and aren't trans. If you're a cisfemale who likes masculine things then that should be that too. Your personal taste and comfort shouldn't be limited by what close-minded people want.

[GhostMommy]

Also you (as in the person in that hypothetical situation) can't assume that your room mate will be attracted to you just because of their self-identification or even sexual preferences for the matter. You can be offputting, ugly, or just annoying for all we know.

While I have not lived in the dorms yet,  I would prefer not to share a room with someone that would see me as a potential romantic partner.  This may be more of a personal preference as one of my long term friends, as we grew older, decided she wanted to be much more than a friend. Not that they are the same thing.

 

I am confused now.  I still don't understand the purpose of putting gender on the form anyway.

[Sweeney]

While I have not lived in the dorms yet,  I would prefer not to share a room with someone that would see me as a potential romantic partner.

I wouldn't worry.

[Tetiel]

Oh come on, that's like finding a double rainbow! They're so rare it just adds a dollop of grey to a pretty black and white subject. Sexuality I can understand (although personally I just see it as straight, gay and bi) but gender is a pretty clear thing.

You are either male or female, just like every other species out there.

It's not that rare. I mean sure, the majority of those with a chromosomal abnormality don't even know it unless they have a DNA test, but XXY chromosomal arrangement, for example, are about 1 male in 1000. I'm sure you've seen an individual with it before and not known it. Yeah, it's not the 1 in 10 estimation of homosexuality, but it's common enough that I feel there should be some option to either say "neither" with a write in option or "no gender specified." I don't really see the harm in allowing that option,

 

Also the usage of every other species is... uh.. sorry, but horribly inaccurate. Are you familiar with snails and slugs at all? Some species of fish are also hermaphrodites. There are some species that can even change their sex as they develop.

 

The main time I see it as being important is if you're in a doctor's office, the doctor needs to know if you have ovaries or testicles as that changes a differential quite a bit!

 

And Mibs, like Sweeney said, I wouldn't worry at all. That's like being worried about being partnered with someone who is homosexual. Just because someone is attracted to people with your type of genitalia, doesn't mean they're attracted to you, and even rarer, would want you as a romantic partner. Most people can recognize a lack of interest and are polite enough to respect that.

[luvsmyncis]

Since when has it been unreasonable to make people feel more comfortable?

I want people to feel uncomfortable.

I wouldn't worry.

Oh, well if you're not worried, then I won't be worried either.

Sexuality I can understand (although personally I just see it as straight, gay and bi)

Asexuality is real. Believe it or not, there are people who just don't desire sex. Sure, they have it here and there, and often it is fun and good. But if they're really honest, they'd probably rather go watch wrestling or something.

[Ali]

Oh, well if you're not worried, then I won't be worried either.
 

So, none of us are worried?