47 replies to this topic

[Scot]

This chick just made a porno!

[Boggart]

This chick just made a porno!

Reminds me of OJ's book.

[Nymh]

I've been keeping track of this fairly closely and updated myself on it fairly recently. For those who are unfamiliar with the case, the publicity she has since garnered has rather pressured the school to be a bit more supportive to her cause (not without much conflict at first). However, some reporter went to interview the alleged sexual assaulter and with his help provided a number of social media exchanges between them to prove that they had a good relationship, even after the day of the alleged assault, drawing attention to a particular text where she even says "i love youuuuuu". I'm being very careful in trying to be objective here btw, but I think it's safe to say that this version of events paints her as infatuated with him. Subsequently, he's taking legal action against the school (but not her, I believe), even the lecturer who approved her mattress-carrying-protest as her senior thesis. When held up near the Rolling Stone incident, this was taken as proof by some that, most high profile rape cases are not 'real' [cringe]. She responded in a follow-up interview that he had released those quotes without context to shape facts in his favor. She releases even larger chunks of social media exchanges, surrounding quotes that he released and made annotations on the side as to explain things from her perspective.

 

It's all still ongoing, but I think this is a decent summary of what I understand to be going on. I tried to be objective in the summary, but feel free to get more info and read up both sides to see if I missed anything.

 

I was raped by my boyfriend.  Just because a woman tells a man she loves him doesn't mean sex between them is consensual.

[Bear]

I don't believe one word of what she says. This is what I got so far.

 

 

She won't go to the police about this? (Why not)?

But she goes to the media?

 

The university found her accuser at NO FAULT

She texted him "f**k my butt" and other stuff like I love you etc days and weeks after the event\

She still was friends with him for months afterwards(And had more sex

 

She claims going to the police is too difficult but carries a mattress on her back

Oh and this video she just released... shes done for... terrible person on this earth

 

No evidence supporting her case.... A lot of evidence proving otherwise.

 

 

Her thesis was carrying her mattress on her back and like a 3 page story.... Talk about lowering education standards ugh I hate this chick so much! 

Edited by Bear, 07 June 2015 - 09:29 AM.

[Konkon]

I don't believe one word of what she says. This is what I got so far.

 

 

She won't go to the police about this? (Why not)?

But she goes to the media?

 

The university found her accuser at NO FAULT

She texted him "f**k my butt" and other stuff like I love you etc days and weeks after the event\

She still was friends with him for months afterwards(And had more sex

 

She claims going to the police is too difficult but carries a mattress on her back

Oh and this video she just released... shes done for... terrible person on this earth

 

No evidence supporting her case.... A lot of evidence proving otherwise.

 

 

Her thesis was carrying her mattress on her back and like a 3 page story.... Talk about lowering education standards ugh I hate this chick so much! 

AND she made a porno. It's almost laughable, actually.

[FelisNoctua]

Okee dokee. Let's dive in here.

 

I feel bad for her situation. She was raped/date raped, and the university did what amounted to nothing. Her performance art protest was ingenious, honestly. She put a lot on the line, socially, academically, psychologically, to drag that stupid thing around the whole time. It did its job: people heard about it. The fucking president of the university refused to shake her hand when she graduate. Buttwipe.

 

We really shouldn't need to address date rape in this day and age. Yes, wives can be raped by husbands, men can be raped by women, women can be raped by women, and beginning to have sex with your partner while they are asleep (without prior consent) is date rape. If you sexually touch a person without knowing 100% that they want you to touch them at that time, it is sexual assault. Ok? Ok.

 

Sexual assault IS mishandled on college campuses, and pretty much everywhere else. As for "why did she go to the media and not the police" she DID take it to the police and the university. Pardon me citing Wikipedia, I'm being lazy.

http://en.wikipedia....ry_That_Weight)

 

On the "porno". The woman has made another performance art piece, this one much less... up my alley. It's a video that starts out as what appears to be consensual sex, and then the male partner begins hitting her, and begins raping her. She says it's not an actual representation of her rape. I presume it's simply a message of how consensual can become not-consensual (because yes, a person can decide to say no DURING sex and the sex should stop). But it's definitely NOT a "porno" as most people imagine the word.

http://jezebel.com/e...-sex-1709234401

 

I'm not going to go into whether she was telling the truth or not. I haven't researched her documentation so having an opinion would be only an opinion and not objective. As someone who has been raped and had it ignored, I tend to err on the side of: she was probably sexually assaulted. People who have never been and never have sexually assaulted may be more likely to think she's making it up. It depends on the lens of our life.

 

 

[MozzarellaSticks]

I don't know if she is lying or not, but it feels like she went very far into tacky. It's up to her how to handle her own situation, but it's getting to a point where she seems to just be cashing in on it and milking it. Which is discrediting her. My concern is that the world already views campus rapes as an act of sexual regret, not sexual assault. It just seems like she is hurting the cause she is for, even with good intentions.

[Konkon]

Okee dokee. Let's dive in here.

 

I feel bad for her situation. She was raped/date raped, and the university did what amounted to nothing. Her performance art protest was ingenious, honestly. She put a lot on the line, socially, academically, psychologically, to drag that stupid thing around the whole time. It did its job: people heard about it. The fucking president of the university refused to shake her hand when she graduate. Buttwipe.

 

We really shouldn't need to address date rape in this day and age. Yes, wives can be raped by husbands, men can be raped by women, women can be raped by women, and beginning to have sex with your partner while they are asleep (without prior consent) is date rape. If you sexually touch a person without knowing 100% that they want you to touch them at that time, it is sexual assault. Ok? Ok.

 

Sexual assault IS mishandled on college campuses, and pretty much everywhere else. As for "why did she go to the media and not the police" she DID take it to the police and the university. Pardon me citing Wikipedia, I'm being lazy.

http://en.wikipedia....ry_That_Weight)

 

On the "porno". The woman has made another performance art piece, this one much less... up my alley. It's a video that starts out as what appears to be consensual sex, and then the male partner begins hitting her, and begins raping her. She says it's not an actual representation of her rape. I presume it's simply a message of how consensual can become not-consensual (because yes, a person can decide to say no DURING sex and the sex should stop). But it's definitely NOT a "porno" as most people imagine the word.

http://jezebel.com/e...-sex-1709234401

 

I'm not going to go into whether she was telling the truth or not. I haven't researched her documentation so having an opinion would be only an opinion and not objective. As someone who has been raped and had it ignored, I tend to err on the side of: she was probably sexually assaulted. People who have never been and never have sexually assaulted may be more likely to think she's making it up. It depends on the lens of our life.

However, all the evidence tends to suggest that she IS lying. It's not fair if you decide to say this and that without actually knowing the whole story. 

http://www.thedailyb...t-rape-her.html

Take a look here. You can see the story from the accused's perspective, and if you look at the messages sent, it seems very unlikely that Emma is telling the truth.

 

Yes, sexual assault is very wrong. But so is falsely accusing someone.If you think about it, the accused is the bigger victim here. His entire life is being destroyed by this accusation, true or not, while she's getting school credit for carrying around a goddamn mattress. Would you shake the hand of a girl ruining another man's social life for the sake of a school project? I think not.

 

Also, she calls you a rapist if you watch that 'porno'. It's kind of hilarious.

Edited by Konkon, 07 June 2015 - 11:28 PM.

[FelisNoctua]

However, all the evidence tends to suggest that she IS lying. It's not fair if you decide to say this and that without actually knowing the whole story. 

http://www.thedailyb...t-rape-her.html

Take a look here. You can see the story from the accused's perspective, and if you look at the messages sent, it seems very unlikely that Emma is telling the truth.

 

Yes, sexual assault is very wrong. But so is falsely accusing someone.If you think about it, the accused is the bigger victim here. His entire life is being destroyed by this accusation, true or not, while she's getting school credit for carrying around a goddamn mattress. Would you shake the hand of a girl ruining another man's social life for the sake of a school project? I think not.

 

Also, she calls you a rapist if you watch that 'porno'. It's kind of hilarious.

 

I have now read his perspective. Though, my opinion was a valid opinion before, as I stated it was my opinion based on my experience and not documentation. I have not changed my opinion. Though I completely agree that false rape cries are devastating (and as someone with an education degree, I assure it, the topic was beaten into me), I would disagree that the accused is a "bigger" victim. Either he assaulted her and she is the victim, or she is lying and he is the victim. I only point this out to dispel the notion that somehow being falsely accused of rape is a worse fate than being raped. If you must disagree, let us simple state that everything is relative, so to speak.

 

As I mentioned, I hadn't read her portion before, but I'd like to explain why reading his account doesn't make her seem like a liar to me: I apparently was her. I was in a very similar situation. TRIGGER WARNING.

 

Spoiler

Bear with me. I was engaged, too young, to my first sexual partner. I was not his first partner. We were having regular sex and he wanted to try anal. At first I said ok, but it hurt, so I asked him to stop. He didn't. Not only did he not stop, but when I tried to move out of position to stop him, he held me down and finished. It hurt. I was shocked. Mortified. I'm not sure I spoke the rest of the day. But, the next day, I was as normal as I could be, telling myself he'd not heard me or something. Longer story short, I did end up leaving him. But before then we continued to be engaged, to be "in love", and to have sex.

 

It's not always "get raped and have zero contact" or "get raped and run to the police". It's one of the squidgy awful things about date rape, the most common rape, it's harder to really understand what to do when it happens to you. Raped by a stranger on the street, ok, got it, very clear. But with someone you know, and trust, you don't question the attacker right away, you question yourself. So. No, I don't see her continued contact as proof that she's a liar. Considering how long it took her to report it, there's no proof that she is not either. It becomes her word against his, and circumstantials on both sides. It's an awful mess. The only thing I really hope to get out of the whole mess is a higher awareness that date rape does happen, and that, right now, sometimes, nothing gets done about it. You tie your boots, maybe get some counseling, and teach your daughters to be louder, stronger, and more forceful with their consent/dissent.

 

((Calling people rapists for watching a rape film is a bit much though. Though I question the bent of a person that does find it arousing.))

Edited by FelisNoctua, 08 June 2015 - 01:19 AM.

[Konkon]

I have now read his perspective. Though, my opinion was a valid opinion before, as I stated it was my opinion based on my experience and not documentation. I have not changed my opinion. Though I completely agree that false rape cries are devastating (and as someone with an education degree, I assure it, the topic was beaten into me), I would disagree that the accused is a "bigger" victim. Either he assaulted her and she is the victim, or she is lying and he is the victim. I only point this out to dispel the notion that somehow being falsely accused of rape is a worse fate than being raped. If you must disagree, let us simple state that everything is relative, so to speak.

As I mentioned, I hadn't read her portion before, but I'd like to explain why reading his account doesn't make her seem like a liar to me: I apparently was her. I was in a very similar situation. TRIGGER WARNING.

Spoiler

Bear with me. I was engaged, too young, to my first sexual partner. I was not his first partner. We were having regular sex and he wanted to try anal. At first I said ok, but it hurt, so I asked him to stop. He didn't. Not only did he not stop, but when I tried to move out of position to stop him, he held me down and finished. It hurt. I was shocked. Mortified. I'm not sure I spoke the rest of the day. But, the next day, I was as normal as I could be, telling myself he'd not heard me or something. Longer story short, I did end up leaving him. But before then we continued to be engaged, to be "in love", and to have sex.

It's not always "get raped and have zero contact" or "get raped and run to the police". It's one of the squidgy awful things about date rape, the most common rape, it's harder to really understand what to do when it happens to you. Raped by a stranger on the street, ok, got it, very clear. But with someone you know, and trust, you don't question the attacker right away, you question yourself. So. No, I don't see her continued contact as proof that she's a liar. Considering how long it took her to report it, there's no proof that she is not either. It becomes her word against his, and circumstantials on both sides. It's an awful mess. The only thing I really hope to get out of the whole mess is a higher awareness that date rape does happen, and that, right now, sometimes, nothing gets done about it. You tie your boots, maybe get some counseling, and teach your daughters to be louder, stronger, and more forceful with their consent/dissent.

((Calling people rapists for watching a rape film is a bit much though. Though I question the bent of a person that does find it arousing.))

The matter of fact stands that there's absolutely no evidence that Paul is guilty. He was deemed innocent by the university in 2013 and police charges against him were dropped due to Emma's refusal to provide details. And this was before the messages and such were presented. The additional reports of assault by two other girls were shown to be Emma's friends and one subsequently withdrew her charge. Emma's story changed frequently and it's proven she lied about many things. Etc.

While it's not totally implausible that she was 'violent raped' as she claims, there is overwhelming evidence that she's being a bloody liar for the sake of her art project. So, no, I don't think you should feel sorry for her, since she's practically the only one gaining anything out of this crap she started.

Hihger awareness for date rape? This should be about higher awareness for false rape claims.

Edited by Konkon, 08 June 2015 - 02:07 AM.

[Emily]

Hihger awareness for date rape? This should be about higher awareness for false rape claims.

 

Why? So women who were sexually assaulted don't feel comfortable coming forward because they're afraid people will call them liars or question what they were wearing or ask if they were drunk or any other irrelevant question? There's enough of that already. 

[Emily]

And besides, 2/3 sexual assaults are committed by someone that the victim knows and 38% are a friend or acquaintance. So it's really not weird to me, despite her previous messages to him, that she may have decided she didn't want to do it anymore. I'm not saying she didn't lie, I'm just saying none of us know because we weren't there. 

 

Those statistics come from safehelpline.org which is property of the U.S. Department of Defense. 

 

In April 2014, the Dept of Education had 55 U.S. colleges under investigation for how they handle sexual assault cases (from State Legislatures magazine). So this is a problem. It doesn't matter if one person may or may not have lied. Colleges are handling cases very poorly. 

 

 

I have now read his perspective. Though, my opinion was a valid opinion before, as I stated it was my opinion based on my experience and not documentation. I have not changed my opinion. Though I completely agree that false rape cries are devastating (and as someone with an education degree, I assure it, the topic was beaten into me), I would disagree that the accused is a "bigger" victim. Either he assaulted her and she is the victim, or she is lying and he is the victim. I only point this out to dispel the notion that somehow being falsely accused of rape is a worse fate than being raped. If you must disagree, let us simple state that everything is relative, so to speak.

 

As I mentioned, I hadn't read her portion before, but I'd like to explain why reading his account doesn't make her seem like a liar to me: I apparently was her. I was in a very similar situation. TRIGGER WARNING.

 

Spoiler

Bear with me. I was engaged, too young, to my first sexual partner. I was not his first partner. We were having regular sex and he wanted to try anal. At first I said ok, but it hurt, so I asked him to stop. He didn't. Not only did he not stop, but when I tried to move out of position to stop him, he held me down and finished. It hurt. I was shocked. Mortified. I'm not sure I spoke the rest of the day. But, the next day, I was as normal as I could be, telling myself he'd not heard me or something. Longer story short, I did end up leaving him. But before then we continued to be engaged, to be "in love", and to have sex.

 

It's not always "get raped and have zero contact" or "get raped and run to the police". It's one of the squidgy awful things about date rape, the most common rape, it's harder to really understand what to do when it happens to you. Raped by a stranger on the street, ok, got it, very clear. But with someone you know, and trust, you don't question the attacker right away, you question yourself. So. No, I don't see her continued contact as proof that she's a liar. Considering how long it took her to report it, there's no proof that she is not either. It becomes her word against his, and circumstantials on both sides. It's an awful mess. The only thing I really hope to get out of the whole mess is a higher awareness that date rape does happen, and that, right now, sometimes, nothing gets done about it. You tie your boots, maybe get some counseling, and teach your daughters to be louder, stronger, and more forceful with their consent/dissent.

 

((Calling people rapists for watching a rape film is a bit much though. Though I question the bent of a person that does find it arousing.))

 

By the way, thank you for telling your story and thanks to anyone else in this thread who did as well. It takes a lot to do that. 

[Konkon]

I'd like to think humans have the capacity to care about the awareness of more than one cause at a time. Don't be foolish.

Sure, definitely, but I'm saying that for in this case, this is the important issue.

Why? So women who were sexually assaulted don't feel comfortable coming forward because they're afraid people will call them liars or question what they were wearing or ask if they were drunk or any other irrelevant question? There's enough of that already.

Are you saying that, in order to protect women, we shouldn't care about false accused victims of rape? 

And besides, 2/3 sexual assaults are committed by someone that the victim knows and 38% are a friend or acquaintance. So it's really not weird to me, despite her previous messages to him, that she may have decided she didn't want to do it anymore. I'm not saying she didn't lie, I'm just saying none of us know because we weren't there. 
 
Those statistics come from safehelpline.org which is property of the U.S. Department of Defense. 
 
In April 2014, the Dept of Education had 55 U.S. colleges under investigation for how they handle sexual assault cases (from State Legislatures magazine). So this is a problem. It doesn't matter if one person may or may not have lied. Colleges are handling cases very poorly.

That statistic has like nothing to do with the following sentence.
 
Even if college handled it poorly, she went to the police. She had the chance to properly convict him. She dropped that chance because she thought it was too much trouble to pursue or something like that. Instead, she went to carry a mattress. Lol.

Edited by Konkon, 08 June 2015 - 03:57 AM.

[Emily]

Sure, definitely, but I'm saying that for in this case, this is the important issue.
Are you saying that, in order to protect women, we shouldn't care about false accused victims of rape? 
That statistic has like nothing to do with the following sentence.
 
Even if college handled it poorly, she went to the police. She had the chance to properly convict him. She dropped that chance because she thought it was too much trouble to pursue or something like that. Instead, she went to carry a mattress. Lol.

 

Or you can twist my words. That works too. 

 

Twist my words and then edit it. Nice one. 

[Konkon]

Or you can twist my words. That works too. 
 
Twist my words and then edit it. Nice one.

But that's literally what you said. I said, 'This should be about higher awareness for false rape claims.', and you said 'why?'. I genuinely want to know if you believe that there should not be awareness for false rape claims.

Edited by Konkon, 08 June 2015 - 04:05 AM.

[Emily]

But that's literally what you said. I said, 'This should be about higher awareness for false rape claims.', and you said 'why?'. I genuinely want to know if you believe that there should not be awareness for false rape claims.

EDIT: never mind, I misread.

 

I don't think that I ever said that we should ignore that some claims may be false in order to protect women - so no, that is not 'literally' what I said. There are investigations which should help to find out if a man is falsely accused.  I had a friend who was accused my freshman year and the investigation was ultimately ended because the girl dropped it. My point is that we have enough focus on whether or not the person is lying because he/she will get questioned on literally everything they did or wore when it happened. I don't think we need to make victims feel worse or less comfortable about reporting a sexual assault because they're afraid they're going to get slaughtered in the media or by their peers. 

[Konkon]

I don't think that I ever said that we should ignore that some claims may be false in order to protect women - so no, that is not 'literally' what I said. There are investigations which should help to find out if a man is falsely accused.  I had a friend who was accused my freshman year and the investigation was ultimately ended because the girl dropped it. My point is that we have enough focus on whether or not the person is lying because he/she will get questioned on literally everything they did or wore when it happened. I don't think we need to make victims feel worse or less comfortable about reporting a sexual assault because they're afraid they're going to get slaughtered in the media or by their peers.

Okay, my mistake then. I'm sorry about misunderstanding.

I don't think that we have "enough" focus on false rape claims, and I think being questioned about literally everything is quite important when it comes to any crime.
But that's a bit irrelevant to what my statement was about. What I mean was that false rape claims should be the target of awareness for this particular issue, since Emma is nearly guaranteed to be lying about this whole issue, yet many are still attacking/accusing the alleged rapist.

[Emily]

Okay, my mistake then. I'm sorry about misunderstanding.

I don't think that we have "enough" focus on false rape claims, and I think being questioned about literally everything is quite important when it comes to any crime.
But that's a bit irrelevant to what my statement was about. What I mean was that false rape claims should be the target of awareness for this particular issue, since Emma is nearly guaranteed to be lying about this whole issue, yet many are still attacking/accusing the alleged rapist.

 

Unless you were actually in the room when it happened, you can't say that it is nearly guaranteed that she was lying. I don't think that being questioned about literally anything when it comes to sexual assault is important. It's not important what the person was wearing or if they were drinking when it happened or even if they had hinted in a text that they wanted it (because texts are very different from real life - you can easily write that you want to do something, just how people get all super macho on the internet, and not actually want to do anything in real life). When you start focusing on things like that, it's called victim blaming. And victims can be men and women before anyone gets all defensive. It's important to help the falsely accused but it's hard to get a real number for how many people are actually falsely accused. 

 

 

In contrast, when more methodologically rigorous research has been conducted, estimates for the percentage of false reports begin to converge around 2-8%. For example, in a multi-site study of eight U.S. communities involved in the “Making a Difference” (or “MAD”) Project, data were collected by law enforcement agencies for all sexual assault reports received in an 18- 24 month period. Of the 2,059 cases that were included in the study, 140 (7%) were classified as false. This is particularly noteworthy because a number of measures were taken to protect the reliability and validity of the research. First, all participating law enforcement agencies were provided training and technical assistance in an ongoing way to ensure that they were applying consistent definitions for a false report. In addition, a random sample of cases was checked for data entry errors. More information on the MAD Project is available at http://www.evawintl.org

 

I think the real issue we need to be focusing on is how universities handle these cases and trying to prevent sexual assaults so that we don't have to have these debates. 

 

A very good example of universities handling things horribly is: http://www.nytimes.c...ee-justice.html

[pancakeface]

I was raped by my boyfriend.  Just because a woman tells a man she loves him doesn't mean sex between them is consensual.

 

I'm really sorry to hear that, same to everyone who has shared their story here.

 

Just to be clear though, I am in full agreement with what you're saying, for instance marital rape. I was actually inclined to believe her side of the story (at that point in time), now there's been some new advances which I haven't caught up on, I don't know what to hold with just yet. But I don't think it's fair to say she definitely lied anymore than we can say he definitely raped her. We can say who we are inclined to believe and why, but beyond that it's a bit of a stretch. Attacks on her character are being used to disprove that he raped her, but aside from the fact that her character before or after the rape is just victim-blaming, the case is actually based on the accusation of him being a serial rapist, with people other than her accusing him of rape.

[Bear]

Rape is an awful terrible thing but the way she is handling her situation makes it so much worse for victims. 

[FelisNoctua]

The matter of fact stands that there's absolutely no evidence that Paul is guilty. He was deemed innocent by the university in 2013 and police charges against him were dropped due to Emma's refusal to provide details. And this was before the messages and such were presented. The additional reports of assault by two other girls were shown to be Emma's friends and one subsequently withdrew her charge. Emma's story changed frequently and it's proven she lied about many things. Etc.

While it's not totally implausible that she was 'violent raped' as she claims, there is overwhelming evidence that she's being a bloody liar for the sake of her art project. So, no, I don't think you should feel sorry for her, since she's practically the only one gaining anything out of this crap she started.

Hihger awareness for date rape? This should be about higher awareness for false rape claims.

 

I think we're essentially arguing for the same thing: more evidence one way or the other. I think where we differ if I feel claims should be taken seriously after the fact, due to the fear and shame some people feel about what is essentially turning themselves in as victims, and you feel people accused of rape should be considered innocent until proven guilty. I think as decent folk we both actually want them both. However, the amount of people being raped and not seeking help far outnumbers the amount of people wrongly accused of rape. The justice system exists to do its best, but the system is broken in a lot of ways. I think the best thing to do is always err on the side of caution when a victim is/possibly involved. The system apparently finds this man not-guilty. His name is a little smeared, but his life goes on generally as normal. If she was raped, she will have always been raped. Time can heal wounds, but she will always always always have hat that done to her. People can forget his name, and he can get a job and married and have kids and go on vacation. And she can do those things too, but while people will forget his 15 minutes of infamy, she will never be unraped. The people who are raped, live with that forever. Healed. Scarred over, Moving on with life, whatever. They were still raped. And that's a thing you carry with you, even as you get over it.

 

@Argonate I think that we, on the outside, can't really know the whole story either way. Real life sucks like that. So, making the best of a bad situation (regardless how anyone thinks it went down) the event can and should be used to bring awareness to the issues: date rape, mishandling of cases, and yes, the possibility of being falsely accused.

 

@Emily Thanks. Internet anonymity for the win. It's not something I usually spout off, I think I've only even told Husband, but it was so painfully relevant after reading the account of their texts.

 

In a little sidepoint: since we're worried about rape vs being falsely accused getting adequate screen attention, I'd like to point out two women in this thread have admitted to having been date raped. Anyone here been falsely accused of rape? Granted, the sample size is small, and we have a biased collection (being a thread about a rape case), but the numbers tell a story too. (If that's too subtle: far more people are date-raped than people are falsely accused).

Edited by FelisNoctua, 08 June 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[Konkon]

Alright, fair enough, you guys take your side and I'll stand by mine. I won't argue further.

Thank you for sharing your stories and perspectives.