174 replies to this topic

[Emily]

Today was not a good day to call HSBC. I was on hold FOREVER.

 

Meanwhile, Donald Trump is in Scotland trying to promote his failing golf courses and he has praised the whole thing. Using it to back up his own campaign. Just wonderful. 

[Waser Lave]

However, the risk of the EU falling apart is too big! This is pretty likely, as Scotland and Greece are already looking to leave. The world market will crash if other countries start to leave, which is bad for everyone globally. Britain would not have to abide by EU regulations, which are very pro-workers, if it falls apart, leading to @Ali's dramatic concerns. This is why I firmly think that the Remain side was correct, and Britain's young people are probably screwed.

 

Scotland isn't looking to leave the EU at all, it wants to join the EU as a nation independent from the rest of the UK... I don't think that's a situation which will happen any time soon though. Greece could possibly leave the EU (and that might not necessarily be a bad thing for either party given Greece's recent economic struggles) but I think the EU has put so much effort and money into keeping Greece in that it's not terribly likely to happen either.

[Padme]

So much Redducation I can't comprehend.
So much false rhetoric spread around.

[Romy]

So much Redducation I can't comprehend.
So much false rhetoric spread around.

As someone that isn't well versed in European politics/economics, could you elaborate on what rhetoric is false and why? 

[Bones]

The thing with politics is you can never please everyone, as iv said before all you can do is put a X in a box and then accept the outcome.  As a leaver I would have accepted if the IN campaign had won but I do understand why ppl are upset and concerned it is a life changing event but then wasn't joining the EU in the first place as well.

 

My main reason for voting leave was 1) obtaining the ability to make our own laws and being able to do something about the ppl making them 2) and this is the main reason, I really feel (and a lot of ppl in my sector feel) that the EU is failing do I want to be in it to the end when it does, hell no I would rather exit a ship on rocks then wait for it to sink.

 

Anyways time will tell we can but see what happens.

 

Also I totally agree LW mate the out for runners are rubbish and I worry to see who will come to the for front to lead this country.

[Padme]

You know you could to inform me of why you think this rhetoric is false That would probably be more constructive than moaning about it.

Did I say you or your post? Nope. Do I take issue with things you post? Ya. I've never been afraid to tag anybody if I have an issue. My issue here is bigger than your posts.
In general, this entire issue I have seen false shit spread around through memes and popular internet posts. This is an issue in every major event now. It's constantly an issue but it is a massive problem when you have individuals voting. People are making a decision off of false information or misrepresentation of information.

People voting off of hearing things like 'the UK bails everyone out' or 'omg there's too many immigrants in London' and 'Britain isn't even English anymore.' Perhaps there are grains of truth in those sentiments but the issue is a LOT more comprehensive than any one of those statements.

im not moaning at all. You make me groan more than I am comfortable with though.

[NeoVix]

Gutted with the result tbh. Even more gutted when it seems so many voted simply because of immigration, which is unlikely to change and benefits our country generally anyway. I saw someone on facebook yesterday saying they voted out because they dont like paying taxes? WTF. A referendum on a decision as big as this was not a good idea IMO. Especially given both campaigns were just scare tactics anyway so not many people have actually made an informed vote and don't seem to actually know what they were voting for.

[Ali]

http://www.standard....-a3280361.html#

[Waser Lave]

Gutted with the result tbh. Even more gutted when it seems so many voted simply because of immigration, which is unlikely to change and benefits our country generally anyway. I saw someone on facebook yesterday saying they voted out because they dont like paying taxes? WTF. A referendum on a decision as big as this was not a good idea IMO. Especially given both campaigns were just scare tactics anyway so not many people have actually made an informed vote and don't seem to actually know what they were voting for.

 

This is the main problem, many people just don't understand the issues involved and end up being duped into voting a particular way by politicians pushing populist agendas like immigration or the NHS. In some areas of the country where they've had a large rise in migration and the social changes which come with it (like Boston, for example) it's understandable that they'd vote Leave because of immigration but many places who state that immigration is a problem are barely impacted by immigration at all...

http://www.standard....-a3280361.html#

 

It's scary to me how ignorant those people are.

[NeoVix]

http://www.standard....-a3280361.html#

Why would you vote at all if you were only doing so thinking your vote wouldn't count?! Thats insane.

[NeoVix]

I am also quite annoyed that it seems the OAP vote trumped the wishes of the younger voters. Of course they should have a say, but we are the ones it is going to affect for the rest of our lives, which statistically will be a lot longer than they have to put up with it if it goes wrong. Then we have those moaning who didn't even bother to vote themselves. And I simply cannot believe that people are naive (or stupid?) enough to believe things such as 'the 350m per week saved will go to the NHS'...of course it will, and has already been backtracked just hours after the voting closed. Some people voted to get rid of Cameron...which has worked but the time for that is in the general election, you do not fuck about with something this big just because you don't like the PM.

[Mishelle]

He makes a few key points. Do you dispute them?

• The EU's interests are split between serving it's member countries and broadening it's scope into new countries
• Bills drafted by lobbyists are a problem. The U.S. has issues with lobbyists having too much influence on the legislation making process, but the EU takes it to another level. The EU is corrupt
• Britain leaving the EU would damage the EU and cause change
• This issue is made overly complex by the media, perhaps to confuse the average citizen and intimidate them into not getting informed

I however do not agree on his final point that Britain leaving the EU would cause the EU to change for the better. This is his weakest point, and is certainly up to debate. I think that the EU will change and fall apart if other countries leave, but the organization that replaces it will have just as many problems if not more. It is a far cry to think that this badly made decision will cause positive change. 

 

Now, I shall further elucidate my position on this issue, because @Ali took my argument and morphed it into a straw man, intentionally or not, and wrongly assumed my scope of knowledge on the issue. I believe that Britain leaving will either cause a lot of harm or change not too much, depending on if other countries decide to leave as well. First, let's take a look at the best case scenario. If the other nations do not leave the EU and it's integrity is not weakened, then nothing much will change. Britain will still have to abide by many EU regulations in order to trade with EU countries. In fact, Britain will have to pay about the same amount of money to reform their laws to conform with EU regulations and provide EU benefits as they did pay the EU in taxes. Britain has a strong economy, and while it will take a hit, it would only be in the short run, assuming other countries don't leave the EU.

 

However, the risk of the EU falling apart is too big! This is pretty likely, as Scotland and Greece are already looking to leave. The world market will crash if other countries start to leave, which is bad for everyone globally. Britain would not have to abide by EU regulations, which are very pro-workers, if it falls apart, leading to @Ali's dramatic concerns. This is why I firmly think that the Remain side was correct, and Britain's young people are probably screwed.

 

As with all controversial issues, there is sticky grey area. It is pretentious and stupid to assume that the issue is as black and white as many people here think. 

 

Scotland is looking for a referendum to leave the UK because they want to stay in the EU. There are also talks of Northern Ireland wanting to join the Republic of Ireland so they too can stay with the EU. Other countries who have called for referendums to leave the EU (Italy, France, Holland, etc) are all being driven by far right parties who are using the same xenophobic rhetoric that was spread about during the UK referendum. So even if the EU does make reforms that are clearly needed, how is that going to fix the problem of intense anti-immigrant xenophobia? Also I don't think it's fair to call anyone's concerns dramatic especially since absolutely no one has any idea what's going to happen with this, no one knows what the economic consequences of this is going to be, and no one knows how this is going to impact their way of life, except everyone pretty much agrees that they're not going to come out of this better than they were before.

[Coops]

My best friend in Wales is fucking heartbroken over this. I'm legitimately afraid for her and my other friends abroad.

[Emily]

https://www.washingt...ng-to-leave-it/

 

All I can do is shake my head. 

[Waser Lave]

I am also quite annoyed that it seems the OAP vote trumped the wishes of the younger voters. Of course they should have a say, but we are the ones it is going to affect for the rest of our lives, which statistically will be a lot longer than they have to put up with it if it goes wrong. Then we have those moaning who didn't even bother to vote themselves. And I simply cannot believe that people are naive (or stupid?) enough to believe things such as 'the 350m per week saved will go to the NHS'...of course it will, and has already been backtracked just hours after the voting closed. Some people voted to get rid of Cameron...which has worked but the time for that is in the general election, you do not fuck about with something this big just because you don't like the PM.

 

As a data whore I'm glad that the BBC did a good job in their data visualisations:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-36616028

 

 

Give it 15-20 years and a significant proportion of Leave voters will have shuffled off this mortal coil and maybe we can have another referendum to rejoin.

[Coops]

http://distractify.c...4/brexit-tweets

 

Number 15, lmao.

 

Germlonely.

 

 

As a data whore I'm glad that the BBC did a good job in their data visualisations:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-36616028

 

 

Give it 15-20 years and a significant proportion of Leave voters will have shuffled off this mortal coil and maybe we can have another referendum to rejoin.

The frustrating aspect of the leave camp being the older generation is they won't have to live with the fallout near as long as the younger generations. 

[Padme]

As a data whore I'm glad that the BBC did a good job in their data visualisations:
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-36616028
 

 
Give it 15-20 years and a significant proportion of Leave voters will have shuffled off this mortal coil and maybe we can have another referendum to rejoin.

United Kingdom of Chavs referendum to join the EU

[Waser Lave]

On the plus side it just became significantly cheaper to visit the UK so you should all come over here and help prop up our economy by spending your money on our tacky souvenirs or coming to see the Queen. Maybe some scones or jellied eels?

[Coops]

On the plus side it just became significantly cheaper to visit the UK so you should all come over here and help prop up our economy by spending your money on our tacky souvenirs or coming to see the Queen. Maybe some scones or jellied eels?

Omw.

[Mishelle]

As a data whore I'm glad that the BBC did a good job in their data visualisations:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-36616028

 

 

Give it 15-20 years and a significant proportion of Leave voters will have shuffled off this mortal coil and maybe we can have another referendum to rejoin.

 

Oh so yall have Baby Boomers who are determined to fuck the entire world up before they die too.

[talbs]

Oh so yall have Baby Boomers who are determined to fuck the entire world up before they die too.

 

So because they see things a little differently, their opinion is worth less than yours?

[Ali]

Gone 9pm on a Friday night. Still in the office, where I arrived at 7am. #PrayForAli

[Mishelle]

So because they see things a little differently, their opinion is worth less than yours?

 

Yes. Because they're dying within the next 15-20 years and we have to deal with the long term consequences of their dumb ass decisions.

[Kaddict]

Yes. Because they're dying within the next 15-20 years and we have to deal with the long term consequences of their dumb ass decisions.

And people with terminal illnesses shouldn't vote either.

[Romy]

Did I say you or your post? Nope. Do I take issue with things you post? Ya. I've never been afraid to tag anybody if I have an issue. My issue here is bigger than your posts.
In general, this entire issue I have seen false shit spread around through memes and popular internet posts. This is an issue in every major event now. It's constantly an issue but it is a massive problem when you have individuals voting. People are making a decision off of false information or misrepresentation of information.

People voting off of hearing things like 'the UK bails everyone out' or 'omg there's too many immigrants in London' and 'Britain isn't even English anymore.' Perhaps there are grains of truth in those sentiments but the issue is a LOT more comprehensive than any one of those statements.

im not moaning at all. You make me groan more than I am comfortable with though.

I'm not trying to be obtuse but this isn't really saying why the rhetoric is false. I understand you venting your frustration with the "misinformation" being spread but it's more productive to offer a counter instead of echoing a sentiment people are plenty aware exists.

 

The only thing I'm seeing is @ortin posting arguments from those that believe that the Brexit is great for the UK and other people going "nuh uh that's stupid and you're stupid and the UK leaving is stupid". There have only been 2 people posting valid rebuttals.

 

You aren't the only one guilty of this though.

Tl;dr Put up or shut up.