62 replies to this topic

[Kaddict]

http://www.nfl.com/n...national-anthem

 

http://www.foxnews.c...res-change.html

 

 

Essentially, Colin Kaepernick didn't stand during the National Anthem. This is quite a polarizing topic. Few people I have seen are ambivalent towards it. 

A few points to discuss (just as a place to start, but talk about whatever the hell you want obv): 

 

Does one have the right to sit? (hopefully this one isn't even a debate/point of discussion)
Is it socially acceptable to continue to sit?
What constitutes an acceptable reason to continue sitting?
What are your thoughts on the fact that he was raised by white people? Does this give his stance more/less credibility?

Does his team have the right to cut him based solely on his political stance?
Is sitting purposefully considered "disgracing the flag?"
By disgracing/not showing respect for the flag, are you automatically doing the same for the military?

What do you think of his statement here: "You can become a cop in six months and don't have to have the same amount of training as a cosmetologist. That's insane. Someone that's holding a curling iron has more education and more training than people that have a gun."

Are people who are upset about this but not about police brutality the real problem?

Are people who hate Kaepernick for this but support Trump (who said that John McCain is not a war hero [he was a POW] because 'I wouldn't have gotten caught') hypocrites, ignorant or just asshats?

 

I will probably have spotty participation, but will try to take the side that gets less support (if there is a disproportion).

 

 

 

Also, try to keep his poor 2015 performance out of the discussion. Here is to hoping he figures his shit out, or that someone burns the 49ers front office and they can rebuild.

 

[Adam]

I really love all of the shit he's getting over not standing up.

[Swar]

[Coops]

Why people care is beyond me on an emotional level. Objectively, I understand American patriotism can reach unattractive levels where basic rights such as not participating in the anthem is considered a crime against humanity.

[Karla]

Oh please... First Gabby Douglass, now him? it's ridiculous he's getting shit for this, especially since he's done it to stand up for something he believes in.

 

Unless it's written in his contract that he must stand for the National Anthem, he shouldn't have to. It's not the law of the land. It's patriotism, an emotional connection to one's country. In this case, Colin just didn't have an emotional connection with his country. Sure, it's unpatriotic, but it's not required (as far as I know)

 

Unless it's a written law for players to stand during the National Anthem, people need to stop getting butthurt because someone doesn't share the same views as them.

[talbs]

I think he's a clown and this was just a last ditch effort to stay relevant. I don't think the front office is too pleased, and I wouldn't be surprised if he got cut. 

[KaibaSama]

I don't really understand how not standing for the national anthem is a protest against oppression. Sure, I guess it could mean you don't really like what our anthem stands for because of the fact it symbolises our nation who oppresses people, but that's all I can think of. If he really wanted to protest, he could have started a protest, written letters to congress, went out to speak with people and try and make a difference. 

 

Of course, you don't have to stand for the anthem, that's true, it's not written in law. But it's sort of a tradition and a show of respect I guess to stand for it. 

[HiMyNameIsNick]

I will never understand patriotism. 

[Elindoril]

I didn't participate in the daily prayer in school either.

~Guess I'm going to hell~

[Coops]

I don't really understand how not standing for the national anthem is a protest against oppression. Sure, I guess it could mean you don't really like what our anthem stands for because of the fact it symbolises our nation who oppresses people, but that's all I can think of. If he really wanted to protest, he could have started a protest, written letters to congress, went out to speak with people and try and make a difference. 

 

Of course, you don't have to stand for the anthem, that's true, it's not written in law. But it's sort of a tradition and a show of respect I guess to stand for it. 

I think he may believe the tradition is steeped in oppression and racism for black Americans, in which case, not standing is a good symbolic statement. That seems to be the gist of it.

[Adam]

"Protest and rebellion are our country's finest forms of patriotism. What's the point of freedom if you don't exercise it?"

[NapisaurusRex]

http://www.nfl.com/n...national-anthem
 
http://www.foxnews.c...res-change.html
 
 
Essentially, Colin Kaepernick didn't stand during the National Anthem. This is quite a polarizing topic. Few people I have seen are ambivalent towards it. 

A few points to discuss (just as a place to start, but talk about whatever the hell you want obv): 
 
Does one have the right to sit? (hopefully this one isn't even a debate/point of discussion)

Yes. We are humans.

Is it socially acceptable to continue to sit?

Obviously not...

What constitutes an acceptable reason to continue sitting?

Acceptable is subjective.

What are your thoughts on the fact that he was raised by white people? Does this give his stance more/less credibility?

What? I was raised by white people. I stand because I'm physically capable.

Does his team have the right to cut him based solely on his political stance?

Yes. Maybe I'm biased because I live in Missouri and you can get fired here for literally anything or nothing, but he was hired to do a job. Part of everyone's job, no matter where they work or what they do, is to reflect well on their employer. If he is not reflecting his employer well or being controversial/abusing his position, then yes, they are justified in firing him.

Is sitting purposefully considered "disgracing the flag?"

Disgracing feels like a really republican thing to say, but I would consider it disrespectful.

By disgracing/not showing respect for the flag, are you automatically doing the same for the military?

No, they are not synonymous, but I understand the line of reasoning.

What do you think of his statement here: "You can become a cop in six months and don't have to have the same amount of training as a cosmetologist. That's insane. Someone that's holding a curling iron has more education and more training than people that have a gun."
Are people who are upset about this but not about police brutality the real problem?

That's a bullshit cop-out. It takes about five seconds to become a criminal. Guns aren't the problem, people are. You also don't have to graduate school or have a GED to be a cosmetologist, so it's a little misleading too. (Some places even require police to have associates', so I hardly consider education a valid argument.)

Are people who hate Kaepernick for this but support Trump (who said that John McCain is not a war hero [he was a POW] because 'I wouldn't have gotten caught') hypocrites, ignorant or just asshats?

No more so than anyone else who's ever said anything negative about someone in the military during a war, which is a fuckton of people.

[Kaddict]

Yes. We are humans.

Obviously not...

Acceptable is subjective.

What? I was raised by white people. I stand because I'm physically capable.

Yes. Maybe I'm biased because I live in Missouri and you can get fired here for literally anything or nothing, but he was hired to do a job. Part of everyone's job, no matter where they work or what they do, is to reflect well on their employer. If he is not reflecting his employer well or being controversial/abusing his position, then yes, they are justified in firing him.

Disgracing feels like a really republican thing to say, but I would consider it disrespectful.

No, they are not synonymous, but I understand the line of reasoning.

That's a bullshit cop-out. It takes about five seconds to become a criminal. Guns aren't the problem, people are. You also don't have to graduate school or have a GED to be a cosmetologist, so it's a little misleading too. (Some places even require police to have associates', so I hardly consider education a valid argument.)

No more so than anyone else who's ever said anything negative about someone in the military during a war, which is a fuckton of people.

 

 

I think he is referring to cops having less formal training than hair-stylists. Though, I haven't fact checked to see if that is true.

[NapisaurusRex]

I think he is referring to cops having less formal training than hair-stylists. Though, I haven't fact checked to see if that is true.

Still irrelevant. How much schooling and formal training is required to be commander in chief? Less than a cosmetologist AND a policeman.

[KaibaSama]

Still irrelevant. How much schooling and formal training is required to be commander in chief? Less than a cosmetologist AND a policeman.

Aren't the requirements for the Presidency just:

35 years of age

US Natural Born Citizen

 

Or something along those lines?

[talbs]

Aren't the requirements for the Presidency just:

35 years of age

US Natural Born Citizen

 

Or something along those lines?

 

That + being a resident for 14 years.

[Ladida]

I grew up going through girl scouts in Canada. We were taught to respect authority within reason, and to be proud to serve our country in whatever way we could. Standing and saluting the flag, and standing during the anthem were expected behaviours to show respect. I was, and still am happy to stand and demonstrate this respect. This collective pride felt increases the bonds between people, who then (hopefully) work together towards the betterment of they country. Because they are proud to be a part of an amazing country, and they want it to succeed.

 

No, you don't need to stand during the anthem if you don't want to. If you feel that your country and everything that it represents do not deserve your respect, then certainly you can sit. Personally, I don't agree with this, but I suppose others do.

 

I don't understand the guy's reasoning for not standing. The flag and anthem represent his country and possibly his history. People worked damn hard for independence and freedom. People are still working hard. I understand that he has issues with a certain aspect of what's happening in his country, but his country is not defined by that alone. His passive protest isn't going to do anything. Why should it? Do the police really care that he's sitting during the anthem? They're not going to change their behaviour just to make sure that he can stand. What is going to be achieved if everyone decides to sit throughout the anthem?

 

It would make more sense in actively pursuing routes that can improve relationships between authority and the citizens. Only taking in officers who have demonstrated that they can operate under pressure, increasing training for them to help them assess situations. Sitting to me is the equivalent of the armchair advocates. He isn't Rosa Parks. His sitting isn't even in the same league.

[Sirius]

The fact that so many people care this much over whether a guy sits or stands is a bit sad to me. He has his reasons, whether or not you agree with them, and he has a right to express how he feels under the US Constitution (within reason, obviously, and he's well within his reason). You could consider this as a peaceful protest - he didn't disrupt anything, he didn't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded building... He kept his ass on a bench while some music played. 

 

No, the team has no right to let him go based on this, unless there's something in his contract regarding standing during the anthem.

[talbs]

No, the team has no right to let him go based on this, unless there's something in his contract regarding standing during the anthem.

 

The team has every right to do with him as they please, regardless of this whole fiasco. It's the nature of the business.

[Scot]

I don't think anyone other than the media cares. I mean nothing else is going on right now other than Willy Wonka dying so

[Kaddict]

  

[talbs]

I read an article on BleacherReport where apparently 7 or so NFL General Managers had been interviewed and were unanimous in their hatred of Kaepernick. Some even said they would resign as GM if the team owner asked them to sign him. They said they felt Kaepernick was the most hated NFL player since Rae Carruth. For those who don't know, Carruth is a former Panthers receiver who hired a hitman to kill his pregnant girlfriend because she wouldn't abort the child. The child survived but he has cerebral palsy and a host of other issues.

 

Found the article http://bleacherrepor...l-front-offices.

[Swar]

I read an article on BleacherReport where apparently 7 or so NFL General Managers had been interviewed and were unanimous in their hatred of Kaepernick. Some even said they would resign as GM if the team owner asked them to sign him. They said they felt Kaepernick was the most hated NFL player since Rae Carruth. For those who don't know, Carruth is a former Panthers receiver who hired a hitman to kill his pregnant girlfriend because she wouldn't abort the child. The child survived but he has cerebral palsy and a host of other issues.
 
Found the article http://bleacherrepor...l-front-offices.

Has Kaepernick done something considered bad other than the anthem thing?

[Kaddict]

Has Kaepernick done something considered bad other than the anthem thing?

Not to my knowledge. He asked to be traded from the 49ers because they are determined to screw themselves into last place, even though a few short years ago they were incredible. He also said that both Trump and Clinton were bad people, so maybe that made some people upset. Idk.

[talbs]

He's been wearing these socks at practice. Not exactly carrying himself like someone who wants to be employed much longer, but then again he's probably going to be the backup to Gabbert so this could be part of his plan to get out of SF.