12 replies to this topic

[Ives]

I guess I'm making this topic to ask what you think on this. I know there are many christians on the board who believe so, but heres my points of why i dont think there is sin :

People that murder and rape are assholes
People that disrespect their parents in extreme ways are ignorant
People that scam are douchebags.
People that serial kill are sociopaths.

So no, I don't believe in sin. I believe it is aggression based on emotion. Murdering isn't bad because the bible says "love thy neighbor" and "do not kill", murdering is bad because its being a plain jackass.

While we do do temporary things, I strongly believe its based on emotion, not a God or Deities wishes.

[cara]

What an interesting topic.

I never thought about this one ....

But a sin if just another word for doing something wrong.

I know bible humpers that think chewing gum in school is a sin , and day after day they wont STFU about it when I'm chewing.
Then there are people that believe only seriously bad things are sins , like rape , or murder.

If this makes any sence , man create sins , sins don't create themselves.

For example , in a world where everyone goes and rapes kids , raping isn't bad , is it?

Another example , imagine you are a little boy and are home-schooled , never let out of the house and your parents and your sisters and your brothers , everyone around you , is telling you to rape a little girl is a good thing , then it is not really the kids fault , he was braught up that way , with noone saying it is bad.

You cannot really not believe in sins if you believe in doing something mean and wrong.
It contridicts itselve.A sin is a wrong , hence , you must believe in both for believing in one.

[Ives]

What an interesting topic.

I never thought about this one ....

But a sin if just another word for doing something wrong.

I know bible humpers that think chewing gum in school is a sin , and day after day they wont STFU about it when I'm chewing.
Then there are people that believe only seriously bad things are sins , like rape , or murder.

If this makes any sence , man create sins , sins don't create themselves.

For example , in a world where everyone goes and rapes kids , raping isn't bad , is it?

Another example , imagine you are a little boy and are home-schooled , never let out of the house and your parents and your sisters and your brothers , everyone around you , is telling you to rape a little girl is a good thing , then it is not really the kids fault , he was braught up that way , with noone saying it is bad.

You cannot really not believe in sins if you believe in doing something mean and wrong.
It contridicts itselve.A sin is a wrong , hence , you must believe in both for believing in one.

The idea was, that sin is based off moral law, which i also do not believe in.

[cara]

The idea was, that sin is based off moral law, which i also do not believe in.

Didn't you say in your first post that rapists are asses , ect?

Then tell me , your list up there , do you not think they are inmoral?

[Ives]

Didn't you say in your first post that rapists are asses , ect?

Then tell me , your list up there , do you not think they are inmoral?

Ugh.

Moral law is the belief that "everyone feels guilt when they do a sin".

Well, that is stongly untrue.

[Freddy]

sin? sin.... it is pretty simple on choosing if u believe there is sin or not. this may not be entirely true but i think that if u believe that the bible is true then you think sin is real. (because sin is in the bible). all u guys bring up good points on what u think. this is just my easy and simple way of viewing it.

[Bão]

Also, sin is something that you're God or my God wouldn't want you to do. It is created by someone who has broken a divine rule. Talking about the Ten Commandments, murder is a sin because it states that you shouldn't kill.

[Le Chango]

But see, if you look at this the christian way (kinda sorta). A man who doesnt believe in religion does not feel sin, if he is taught not to and wants to go to heaven; he does and feels guilt. Sin is nothing but the godly way of saying, "wrong doing." And yet the bible says not to do things; there are exceptions. for instance: God killed millions of people in the great flood but that wasnt a sin was it? no. It was for a good purpose.

[RandomNameIgnoreIt]

I guess I'm making this topic to ask what you think on this. I know there are many christians on the board who believe so, but heres my points of why i dont think there is sin :

People that murder and rape are assholes
People that disrespect their parents in extreme ways are ignorant
People that scam are douchebags.
People that serial kill are sociopaths.

So no, I don't believe in sin. I believe it is aggression based on emotion. Murdering isn't bad because the bible says "love thy neighbor" and "do not kill", murdering is bad because its being a plain jackass.

While we do do temporary things, I strongly believe its based on emotion, not a God or Deities wishes.

I do believe there is sin, and I don't think religion really has to be attached to it at all. In my view, there are certain things you just KNOW are wrong. You don't have to be told. If you cheat on your significant other, whether you feel remorse for it or not, you know it is wrong. If you do drugs, even if you publically say it's good, you know in truth it is not (even if someone tries not to admit it to themselves at times.) And obviously murder and the like are bad.

Those things are sin. Even a sociopath who has no feeling has the mental capacity to at least know what is right and wrong (which is why they can be convicted of crimes and sentenced without being declared insane.) It's easy... Things you know are wrong are sin. There are various degrees of it, but what's wrong is wrong. There aren't many grey areas, and when there are, in your heart of hearts you still probably know what is right.

The problem with your analysis of jackasses, assholes, and sociopaths, is that you make it too black and white. The fact of the matter is that not every murderer is an asshole, not all scammers are douchebags, and not everyone that disrespects their parents is ignorant. We are all very varied people, and we cannot set ourselves on some high horse apart from these people.

In different circumstances who knows how we would all behave? And as things stand, I doubt we are all angels here. We've all done things that are wrong, and I would highly doubt anyone here is excluded from that. Does that mean we're all assholes or ignorant douchebags? Of course not.

There is always sin, I think, but the key difference is a person's ability to admit their wrong's to themselves and make a genuine effort to correct it. Sin is almost never excusable, however it is... hm, how to put it... Understandable. At times. When circumstances made taking another course of action very difficult.

For example, having a happy relationship and a spouse that loves you, then going out and f**king around on them because you're bored. Inexcusable and not understandable.

Having a terrible relationship and a spouse that is violent towards you, then f**king around on them. Still inexcusable, but perfectly understandable.

I think that's what makes the difference between a good person and a bad person. Everyone sins, but the good people take extreme conditions to do so. Cheating is never right, but the above situation is about as close to right as it could be. Of course the real solution should have been to get out of the relationship fully then see other people, but given the abusive circumstance, one can see why the cheating was done.

The ones without hope are the ones of the first example. They are the assholes and ignorant douchebags that you speak of. However, I don't think most of us are so impulsive and uncaring. Most of us fall somewhere in between, and you can't well catagorize us all as douchebags and jackasses, can you?

Once more, the key is in controlling yourself, and realizing your wrongs, then correcting them. Some wrongs can never fully be righted, but you need to do so as much as possible.

To summarize:

Okay, yeah, I went off track a bit but yes, there is sin. But things are not as black and white as you made them out to be. There are many types of people, and we all sin. And it's not even that vague what sin is... Even if you do an activity and don't feel bad about it, you are perfectly capable of knowing in your heart if it is wrong to do. When you know in your heart that something you have done or will do is wrong, those things are sin.

READ READ READ! --> It may seem like I'm some christian fanatic. I'm not. I don't go to church on Sunday. I don't claim any religion. I don't care if you do. I'm not trying to convert your religion. I don't care if you believe in God or not. I believe these things true regardless of the existence of any God.

Just had to clarify that. Thank you

Edited by BrknPhoenix, 07 March 2006 - 10:52 PM.

[Mumei]

Well said Brkn, altho i may not agree 100% i do agree with lots of it

Morality has existed WELL before christianity (and even before the old testament)

so has the concept of an imoral act, and sin

it's the punishment of those sins that people's gods usually get involved in

I like the idea of Karma and that 'your sins' are effectivly visited upon yourself in later life/lives

Athean, i am not so taken with your breakdown of the crimes and your assesment of them - IMO - rapists are the lowest form of life on the planet, murderists only slightly higher up (then politicians...) certainly not in the same class as scam merchants which altho still a sin, not quite as bad

[Ives]

Well said Brkn, altho i may not agree 100% i do agree with lots of it

Morality has existed WELL before christianity (and even before the old testament)

so has the concept of an imoral act, and sin

it's the punishment of those sins that people's gods usually get involved in

I like the idea of Karma and that 'your sins' are effectivly visited upon yourself in later life/lives

Athean, i am not so taken with your breakdown of the crimes and your assesment of them - IMO - rapists are the lowest form of life on the planet, murderists only slightly higher up (then politicians...) certainly not in the same class as scam merchants which altho still a sin, not quite as bad

I didn't regard them as the worst or the lowest one bit, acutally. They lie, which makes them more in the rank of "liars" which falls more in a medium, in my opinion.

I do believe there is sin, and I don't think religion really has to be attached to it at all. In my view, there are certain things you just KNOW are wrong. You don't have to be told. If you cheat on your significant other, whether you feel remorse for it or not, you know it is wrong. If you do drugs, even if you publically say it's good, you know in truth it is not (even if someone tries not to admit it to themselves at times.) And obviously murder and the like are bad.

Those things are sin. Even a sociopath who has no feeling has the mental capacity to at least know what is right and wrong (which is why they can be convicted of crimes and sentenced without being declared insane.) It's easy... Things you know are wrong are sin. There are various degrees of it, but what's wrong is wrong. There aren't many grey areas, and when there are, in your heart of hearts you still probably know what is right.

The problem with your analysis of jackasses, assholes, and sociopaths, is that you make it too black and white. The fact of the matter is that not every murderer is an asshole, not all scammers are douchebags, and not everyone that disrespects their parents is ignorant. We are all very varied people, and we cannot set ourselves on some high horse apart from these people.

In different circumstances who knows how we would all behave? And as things stand, I doubt we are all angels here. We've all done things that are wrong, and I would highly doubt anyone here is excluded from that. Does that mean we're all assholes or ignorant douchebags? Of course not.

There is always sin, I think, but the key difference is a person's ability to admit their wrong's to themselves and make a genuine effort to correct it. Sin is almost never excusable, however it is... hm, how to put it... Understandable. At times. When circumstances made taking another course of action very difficult.

For example, having a happy relationship and a spouse that loves you, then going out and f**king around on them because you're bored. Inexcusable and not understandable.

Having a terrible relationship and a spouse that is violent towards you, then f**king around on them. Still inexcusable, but perfectly understandable.

I think that's what makes the difference between a good person and a bad person. Everyone sins, but the good people take extreme conditions to do so. Cheating is never right, but the above situation is about as close to right as it could be. Of course the real solution should have been to get out of the relationship fully then see other people, but given the abusive circumstance, one can see why the cheating was done.

The ones without hope are the ones of the first example. They are the assholes and ignorant douchebags that you speak of. However, I don't think most of us are so impulsive and uncaring. Most of us fall somewhere in between, and you can't well catagorize us all as douchebags and jackasses, can you?

Once more, the key is in controlling yourself, and realizing your wrongs, then correcting them. Some wrongs can never fully be righted, but you need to do so as much as possible.

To summarize:

Okay, yeah, I went off track a bit but yes, there is sin. But things are not as black and white as you made them out to be. There are many types of people, and we all sin. And it's not even that vague what sin is... Even if you do an activity and don't feel bad about it, you are perfectly capable of knowing in your heart if it is wrong to do. When you know in your heart that something you have done or will do is wrong, those things are sin.

READ READ READ! --> It may seem like I'm some christian fanatic. I'm not. I don't go to church on Sunday. I don't claim any religion. I don't care if you do. I'm not trying to convert your religion. I don't care if you believe in God or not. I believe these things true regardless of the existence of any God.

Just had to clarify that. Thank you

True to a degree. I know you do not affiliate with a religion though.

However, what my other argument is is that this : logic in human is there, yes. Because humans are smart, they regard it only logical to a degree. If you kill something, you are causing society to go downward because they have to set up jail for you and whatnot when they could be doing other things. Surely, small setbacks can't hurt, but it totals up. And drugs, meh. smallest amount of drugs cant hurt (and i mean a SMALL amount), but I look at it more of "logic" than moral.

Along with that, animals. Animals are not as smart as us, and therefore have the tendency to kill and do stupid shit. While animals still have logic (mother protecting her cubs), it seems more like the lack of civil connection.

Now when you mean the "murderers are assholes, etc. is too black and white", I was refering to that in a more general way. I apologise for not explaining that, but there are few murderers with good intentions or reasoning into why they did it. Then again, i have yet to see a murder with "good intentions" for anyone but the murderer or a loved one of the murderer.

[Ives]

You can't say there isn't sin without believing in a God. You just can't, of course your going to have a comptely different view if you don't believe in one, it's not really an argument

Just my opinion, feel free to stab me for it, but I look at it more logically speaking than 'sin'. So if believing in whats logical that doesnt contribute to the community or civilization, then I guuess i believe in sin.

[Mystical]

of course there is sin in my opinion but the better question is, is god real!? but we won't get into that topic please... I remember last time i was involved in a topic about religion way back on nhacks LOL