37 replies to this topic

[Hawk]

Good Sources

Loose Change 2nd Edtion -I Strongly suggest watching this video. It may be long, and probably a pain to load on dialup, but well worth it.
A Good Wikipedia Article on the subject might also help.
Killtown's Website - A good source also, I havent really looked deeply into it yet.

Also, if you can get your hands on it, I strongly suggest reading Inside Job:Unmasking the 9/11 Conspiracies by Jim Marrs.
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We all know 9/11 extremely well. The true question is "What really happened?" I think the 9/11 Commission did a hideous job. The governments explanations and actions before, during, and after the 9/11 attacks seem suspicious.

Also, with this being such a sensitive subject, please refrain from flaming. Otherwise Ill just leave it open for discussion becuase I dont know where to start

Discuss/Debate

Edited by hawk117, 02 April 2006 - 09:11 PM.

[Noitidart]

I really don't know I don't belive Osama when he says he did it. He obviously wants to take credit for anything that is hurtful towards the US.

[Hawk]

I really don't know I don't belive Osama when he says he did it. He obviously wants to take credit for anything that is hurtful towards the US.

Watch Loose Change, he denies doing it, and the vid where he claims is unclear/he is wearing a ring. His religion kinda, slightly, forbids that.

Ill find a quote I had somewhere about this too

Edited by hawk117, 02 April 2006 - 09:16 PM.

[Noitidart]

Yea it's real weird. With all the stuff he enforces and you saying he was wearing a ring. Yeah man he's the last person I'd expect to see with a ring.

[Hawk]

Yea it's real weird. With all the stuff he enforces and you saying he was wearing a ring. Yeah man he's the last person I'd expect to see with a ring.

Its on Loose Change, thats all I know. Ill find the spot quick and take a few pics and post them.

Edit: Ok- I found the part with the ring, its at about 1 hr and 8 mins into the vid- Ill give the link for the sake of those with dialup. In the video they also mention something about him being left handed, but writing right handed in the tape- I guess you should watch for yourself, Ive already watched it twice in the past month or two.
http://img128.images...ge=proof2ew.jpg

Did some googling quick, and found the quote

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle." - Osama bin Laden

Edited by hawk117, 02 April 2006 - 09:26 PM.

[Hydrogen]

rings are permitted in islam. men cant wear gold. that looks like a gold ring.

i like loose change too...awesome use of an hour and some minutes. really opens up your eyes. ive always been skeptical of what authority tells me.

[Ives]

I don't think Bin Laden pulled the attacks, but I dont think America did.

Some of these movies support it in favor of conspiracy, but I sure as hell dont. Look at the internet. Some people actually say indigo cures cancer without proof of the facts...and the proof of the facts [for 9/11] aren't pointed at Laden or the Bush administration.

[Noitidart]

Hmm Osama and a ring you think. What did he say in that vid?

[Hawk]

I don't think Bin Laden pulled the attacks, but I dont think America did.

Some of these movies support it in favor of conspiracy, but I sure as hell dont. Look at the internet. Some people actually say indigo cures cancer without proof of the facts...and the proof of the facts [for 9/11] aren't pointed at Laden or the Bush administration.

Although nothing points directly at either, the government seems more likely.
They failed to scramble jets to follow the hijacked planes like they had on multiple occassions previous to 9/11. All security systems that the government had set up seemed to fail simultaneously.

The difference between this and indigo is the information available. This has facts that the government DID have foreknowledge, and the government acted horribly to the disaster. Also, by taking the two or three tapes that could see the attack on the Pentagon and telling the employees to not speak about what they saw also points to a conspiracy. All they released was 5 pics, but the difference in brightness/sun location in the 5 frames seems illogical.

Stuff doesnt add up.

[Ives]

Although nothing points directly at either, the government seems more likely.
They failed to scramble jets to follow the hijacked planes like they had on multiple occassions previous to 9/11. All security systems that the government had set up seemed to fail simultaneously.

The difference between this and indigo is the information available. This has facts that the government DID have foreknowledge, and the government acted horribly to the disaster. Also, by taking the two or three tapes that could see the attack on the Pentagon and telling the employees to not speak about what they saw also points to a conspiracy. All they released was 5 pics, but the difference in brightness/sun location in the 5 frames seems illogical.

Stuff doesnt add up.

I dont believe it for my own reasons. Anything can be taken into picture as bad or good, and I think it's safe to say this is one of the cases. Perl harbor was the same thing, as was the Hiroshima bombings. They were thought to be conspiracies of a high global scale level to some, but were they? No.

History repeats itself, though they present the suspicions in a professional matter.

[Hawk]

I dont believe it for my own reasons. Anything can be taken into picture as bad or good, and I think it's safe to say this is one of the cases. Perl harbor was the same thing, as was the Hiroshima bombings. They were thought to be conspiracies of a high global scale level to some, but were they? No.

History repeats itself, though they present the suspicions in a professional matter.

Hiroshima? How could that be a conspiracy?

According to Inside Job: Inmasking the 9/11 Conspiracies, certain high-ranking officials in Washington knew in advance of the Japenese intention to attack the US fleet in Hawaii, yet did nothing to prevent it.

[Tetiel]

Pardon me if I am incorrect... but in the Quran is it okay to kill innocents? (I had heard this from a Pakistani exchange student) Al Qaeda killed many many innocent people and it was especially bad with the beheadings they did of those that were hostages. One was just a journalist... if they are willing to kill those people who did not deserve to be slain... then why are you arguing over if he would wear a gold ring or not? He has already gone against it many times from what I understand... how easy would it be for him to disobey it again?

And you're right. I could be wrong, it could indeed be invalid or valid. I don't know but... with the types of things that Bin Laden's group has done... I wouldn't put it past him to do it. And maybe it isn't him but I HIGHLY doubt the US government would do it.

But... it only makes me sad that it did happen because in a lot of places... there is bigotry. And that it seems that the only thing on the news to do with Islam is terrorism when in reality... Muslims are good people, very good people. But the extremists... make them look so horrible

[Hawk]

The significance of the gold ring is to prove the vid where Osama claimed responsibility for the attacks is a fraud.

Especially since in an interview he denied being behind the attacks.

[Christopher Robin]

i think osama did it, and is denying it because he doesnt want his moutains blowed up.

[Ives]

Hiroshima? How could that be a conspiracy?

According to Inside Job: Inmasking the 9/11 Conspiracies, certain high-ranking officials in Washington knew in advance of the Japenese intention to attack the US fleet in Hawaii, yet did nothing to prevent it.

They weren't. Hirohito even reclarified the freaking issue officially in 1987 about a week before he thought he was going to die.


Hiroshima was an apparent conspiracy on Japan's behalf. They apparently "didnt know about the attack on Nagasaki but did know about Hiroshima." Additionally, since im arguing against the idea 9/11 was real, then why the hell is that going to be a credible source for me?

There are two main problems with what THEY said:

• They expected a Japanese attack to be POSSIBLE after cutting trades in some time between June and October 1941
• When these attacks did not happen, they did not expect it, as the threat was over. The Japanese had most of its garrison attacking the islands, which required an extensive use of what was thought to be every ship.

That's not the point, anyways.

It is a THEORY that has not been PROVEN. What has the most sufficent proof is that the plane was hijacked, and it destroyed 9/11. Everything such as the increase and what donald rumsfield said were probably coincedences.

Its a debate to me if Osama Bin Laden was the lead of the plan, or hes just a target dummy. I don't really know. The explosives are a reasonable argument, along with the blatant planning from the "terrorists" point of view, but it does not convince me as explosives could have been easily added to the plane by the terrorists.

What motive would it give the president anyways? Start a war? Lower the economy to shit? The President and its administration has an extremely difficult job as is, which is why they dont start random wars out of nowhere.

[Darkler]

I think it was a plot between Michael Moore and Osama Bin Laden. Seriously, Michael Moore benefited more from 9/11 with his movie than anyone. His drive for money and Osamas hate for America caused the 9/11 attack.

just kidding Im just bullshittin ya guys, I really believe it was just a tragic terrorist attack.

[RandomNameIgnoreIt]

Gah, damn. I don't know if I'm willing to go through this argument again. I have here and on other boards already... >_< All I'll say is the "facts" and observations on all of those conspiracy videos are quite easy to tear apart. The only way you could believe it is if you are just looking for something else to believe in, and don't want to let yourself see the fallacies in the arguments.

For those of you that want to believe 9/11 is a conspiracy, just know that everyone involved says its real, the victims families say it's real, there are real dead people that don't live anymore, and despite all these theories on 9/11 being a conspiracy, no one of credibility has taken any of it seriously. Oh, and let's not forget all the media sources who had cameras on it the whole time, and who dig into the depths of everything looking for the next big story... Oh, and the 50% of the government that would love to unconver the conspiracy and take Bush down... Oh, and the people that would have had to be in on it whose consciences got to them...

Yadda ya. And it goes on and on...

Edited by BrknPhoenix, 03 April 2006 - 05:34 PM.

[Hawk]

I think it was a plot between Michael Moore and Osama Bin Laden. Seriously, Michael Moore benefited more from 9/11 with his movie than anyone. His drive for money and Osamas hate for America caused the 9/11 attack.

just kidding Im just bullshittin ya guys, I really believe it was just a tragic terrorist attack.

Larry Silverstein also profited pretty well from it.

Some investors in stocks also profited pretty well from it. The signs were there, and the government ignored them.

[Ives]

Larry Silverstein also profited pretty well from it.

Some investors in stocks also profited pretty well from it. The signs were there, and the government ignored them.

Aren't you forgetting the so many that didnt'?

[Hawk]

Aren't you forgetting the so many that didnt'?

Arent you forgetting the billionares are the ones that control the country? Its capitalism dude, they did it for their own benefits.

[Tetiel]

Aren't you forgetting the so many that didnt'?

Indeed.

For example the airline companies which several the government lost money on bailing them out. AND it brought down the economy hugely. The government I highly doubt ever would want that

Arent you forgetting the billionares are the ones that control the country? Its capitalism dude, they did it for their own benefits.

No, actually... that's a really bad statement because it did not benefit the billionares to lose money.

[RandomNameIgnoreIt]

Indeed.

For example the airline companies which several the government lost money on bailing them out. AND it brought down the economy hugely. The government I highly doubt ever would want that

Gasp, but you forget! We all hate muslims and will do anything to make them look evil, even destroy our own economy and kill our own people! IT'S ALL PART OF OUR MASTER PLAN, DON"T YOU SEE?! OUR MASTER PLAN TO... um... Oh crap... I have revealed too much I must flee! *flees*

[Hawk]

No, actually... that's a really bad statement because it did not benefit the billionares to lose money.

Larry Silverstein got payed billions of dollars in insurance money for the towers collapse.
Companies that develop weapons, planes, and other materials needed by the military are now making much more money.
Oil????

[RandomNameIgnoreIt]

Larry Silverstein got payed billions of dollars in insurance money for the towers collapse.
Companies that develop weapons, planes, and other materials needed by the military are now making much more money.
Oil????

Aha... The mystery is solved! The mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks is none other than... *pulls off Osama's mask*

*altogether* LARRY SILVERSTEIN!

Larry Silverstein: And I would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling conspiracy theorists! Gaahhhhh!

Scooby: Rine re-reven?

All: hahahahaha! That's our scoob!

[Tetiel]

Larry Silverstein got payed billions of dollars in insurance money for the towers collapse.
Companies that develop weapons, planes, and other materials needed by the military are now making much more money.
Oil????

Larry Silverstein could have made more than that from the rent that offices paid every year. It didn't benefit him much at all

And those companies are making more money... as they do IN EVERY WAR. Does this mean that WWII was a conspiracy?

And have you noticed that Oil prices have gone much much higher since the war started not lower like we want so yet again we are losing money in the war? They used to be about... 1.30 a gallon here. And what are they now? $2.50. It's again making the economy bad. Why would we go crash two airplanes into the towers over oil instead of just attacking the middle east just because? We could have easily gone to war with Iraq just because we had Saddam Hussein.