41 replies to this topic

[redlion]

Right, so about Lt. Ehren Watada: he's possibly the bravest man in the history of the planet. He refuses to ship out to Iraq, or even to take a desk job as replacement, saying: "My participation would make me party to war crimes." He faces court-martial and up to eight years in a military prison (think gitmo, not chino) just for maintaining a conscientious objector status.

Lemme see if I can find a news article online about it...

Here! Source

Discuss the only officer ever in the history of the war to refuse service.

Edited a mistake. See Here

[kevinnnnn]

I live in Chino..

Thats kinda crazy, I wonder what's gonna happen to him.

[Cory]

Right, so about Lt. Ehren Watada: he's possibly the bravest man in the history of the planet. He refuses to ship out to Iraq, or even to take a desk job as replacement, saying: "My participation would make me party to war crimes." He faces court-martial and up to eight years in a military prison (think gitmo, not chino) just for maintaining a conscientious objector status.

Lemme see if I can find a news article online about it...

Here! Source

Discuss the only officer ever in the history of the nation to refuse service.

HAHAHA the only officer in history to refuse service my ass. Not even in the top 100.

I live in Chino..

Thats kinda crazy, I wonder what's gonna happen to him.

I hope he fries. He has been employed all these years and knows full well that his job includes serving in war if he is ever called upon, rather he thinks the cause is justified or not.

[redlion]

HAHAHA the only officer in history to refuse service my ass. Not even in the top 100.
I hope he fries. He has been employed all these years and knows full well that his job includes serving in war if he is ever called upon, rather he thinks the cause is justified or not.

My apologies. I meant in the history of the war, not the history of the nation. Got a little carried away there

[Frizzle]

HAHAHA the only officer in history to refuse service my ass. Not even in the top 100.

I hope he fries. He has been employed all these years and knows full well that his job includes serving in war if he is ever called upon, rather he thinks the cause is justified or not.

QFE.

[redlion]

QFE.

You realize that they proved at Nuremberg that obeying one's superior officers does not excuse one from war crimes? Thats why all those Nazis died; they tried to blame it on the Fuhrer and everyone else said 'no, you're responsible for your own actions'.

This man is simply doing the same, but preemptively.

[Bryan]

You realize that they proved at Nuremberg that obeying one's superior officers does not excuse one from war crimes? Thats why all those Nazis died; they tried to blame it on the Fuhrer and everyone else said 'no, you're responsible for your own actions'.

This man is simply doing the same, but preemptively.

Justice systems vary throughout the years and throughout nations. In America, it's one's duty to go to war if called upon, regardless of the circumstances.

If you feel like a rebel and want to have individual thought, the army is not for you.

I hope this guy doesn't get jail time, but he should be dismissed from duty.

[Cript]

Has no problem cashing the checks or enjoying the benefits...

[spetz]

All I know is up here in Canada military prisons sucks or so i have been told by my army buddies. So think its harsh for him to get jail sentence he should have moved to Canada. There is a whole bunch of guys who did it to escape the draft.

[Cript]

All I know is up here in Canada military prisons sucks or so i have been told by my army buddies. So think its harsh for him to get jail sentence he should have moved to Canada. There is a whole bunch of guys who did it to escape the draft.

We call them pussies over here.

[Bryan]

We call them pussies over here.

I call em old, dead or forgotten.

We haven't had a draft in ages

[Cript]

You realize that they proved at Nuremberg that obeying one's superior officers does not excuse one from war crimes? Thats why all those Nazis died; they tried to blame it on the Fuhrer and everyone else said 'no, you're responsible for your own actions'.

This man is simply doing the same, but preemptively.

Part of joining up requires you to trust your leaders.

[redlion]

Alright, I've listened to an interview with Lt. Watada and Kevin Sites (whoever he is) in which he actually denied that he was claiming conscientious objector status. He insists that he is willing to fight in any legitimate war. He volunteered to fight in Afghanistan, and he was denied. The interview is really interesting. Its at least 20 minutes long of actual questions (in the old style of journalism: questions that actually provoke thought and answers, not just rhetoric and inflammatory words) and answers. Check it out Here

[pyke]

We call them pussies over here.

Some of them didn't believe in the cause of the war. I wouldn't expect someone to go die for a cause they didn't believe in.

I think it'd be rather foolish to enlist in the military if you weren't willing to participate in war though..

[redlion]

Some of them didn't believe in the cause of the war. I wouldn't expect someone to go die for a cause they didn't believe in.

I think it'd be rather foolish to enlist in the military if you weren't willing to participate in war though..

Like I said, he insists that he'll participate in any legal war. He volunteered to fight in Afghanistan (which is arguably more dangerous than Iraq) and they denied him the chance. He just refuses to fight in an illegal and immoral war. It is the duty of a soldier to refuse to follow orders when they violate the rules of war. He views the invasion of Iraq as an illegal action, and possibly a war crime. He is protecting himself from becoming the next Herman Goering.

He also volunteered to tender his resignation due to his non compliance with the order to ship out to Iraq.

[pyke]

Like I said, he insists that he'll participate in any legal war. He volunteered to fight in Afghanistan (which is arguably more dangerous than Iraq) and they denied him the chance.

He also volunteered to tender his resignation due to his non compliance with the order to ship out to Iraq.

Good for him I spose . I agree that the afganistan war is more justified (Though that's probably only because my dad is being shipped there in a week or so ).

[Hater_Boxden]

Hmm. I dont agree with his conscience objection but it would be unfair to call this man a deserter or meatball. I do not see the harm in letting him fight in Afghanistan. I would think they are more short on troops there than in Iraq.

Hey how come Cript gets to say the "P" word and i can only say meatball?

Edited by Green Meanies, 03 January 2007 - 05:56 PM.

[Frizzle]

He is protecting himself from becoming the next Herman Goering.

He also volunteered to tender his resignation due to his non compliance with the order to ship out to Iraq.

Don't insult Goerings name with this cowards..

[redlion]

Don't insult Goerings name with this cowards..

I... I wasn't going to touch this comment, but seeing as its detrimental to the thread as a place for intellectual debate and free thought, I'll respond in a way that I find impossible to argue with. Do with this quote as you will.

"As Director of the Four Year Plan, Goering bore responsibility for the elimination of Jews from political life and for the destruction and takeover of Jewish businesses and property....He was quoted as saying, "I wish you had killed 200 Jews and not destroyed such valuable property"...He looted art treasures from occupied territories and arranged for use of slave labor...." Source

[Frizzle]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Hawk]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Some may view it as a bad thing.

[redlion]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

It is a bad thing. The world told them that they were bastards of the highest degree for killing those people, and nothing you say is going to change my mind about it. Sorry

But we digress. We've moved from the subject of this thread.

[Frizzle]

It is a bad thing. The world told them that they were bastards of the highest degree for killing those people, and nothing you say is going to change my mind about it. Sorry

But we digress. We've moved from the subject of this thread.

Last time I checked, you was trying to change MY mind on Goering. Some people (alot) of people view it as a bad thing, I understand that. It doesn't change my opinion nor make me care about the Holocaust.

[redlion]

Last time I checked, you was trying to change MY mind on Goering. Some people (alot) of people view it as a bad thing, I understand that. It doesn't change my opinion nor make me care about the Holocaust.

I'm not trying to change your mind. But by asserting that Goering has some desirable trait, you are, whether you intended or not, trying to change my mind about the atrocities he committed.

And at least you call it the holocaust. You didn't pull a Mel Gibson and deny its very existence.

[Frizzle]

I'm not trying to change your mind. But by asserting that Goering has some desirable trait, you are, whether you intended or not, trying to change my mind about the atrocities he committed.

And at least you call it the holocaust. You didn't pull a Mel Gibson and deny its very existence.

The thing is, all the leading Nazi's did good in some way or another which CAN'T be denied (I'll back up tomorow, bed soon.) but the "negative" aspects of the Nazi's will always shadow those good things.

And no, I'm not an idiot, I've been to the cemetaries, I've been to Auschwitz, Schindlers factory and a few musems. You'd be a total moron to deny the existence.