277 replies to this topic

[Elindoril]

Again, let's not get carried away here, I don't want to babysit the thread.

[Norava]

Shouldn't sin fall into this? I studied over it a little bit a few years ago.

The Law of Human Nature.

[luvsmyncis]

Anyway, even if atheists answer to themselves, wouldn't they still be doing committing transgressions against divine law? They just believe that the divinity is themselves/mind/whatever instead of a higher power?

No. Atheist don't believe in any powers. They probably don't find anything special about themselves, either.
They have no God to answer to if they have premarital sex or commit adultery. But they still have a sense of ethics, so that's why they're generally not out committing murders or robbing everyone they know. Some people do not require a belief in a God to be a graceful, decent, giving person. This is why I don't think that religion is needed as a moral compass, because without it, we'd probably still know it's not very nice to kill people, but I find it's useful to have around when it inspires people to do good for others.

@Sweeney...

Spoiler

I can't imagine what it must be like to live with your brain.

Well, you think you're pretty great, don't you? But you are also self-aware. Now, imagine you think you're pretty great, but you aren't aware of how ignorant you really are. That's what I imagine it's like. Having no idea how stupid you are, and being delusional enough to think people actually admire that.

[NapisaurusRex]

No. Atheist don't believe in any powers. They probably don't find anything special about themselves, either.
They have no God to answer to if they have premarital sex or commit adultery. But they still have a sense of ethics, so that's why they're generally not out committing murders or robbing everyone they know. Some people do not require a belief in a God to be a graceful, decent, giving person. This is why I don't think that religion is needed as a moral compass, because without it, we'd probably still know it's not very nice to kill people, but I find it's useful to have around when it inspires people to do good for others.

I was basing my question (mostly) off of this statement:

My mind and beliefs are what I deem to be most sacred to me.

If his mind is most sacred and he has decided that killing is wrong in his mind, then is he still committing a sin if he kills someone?

Edited by Napiform, 18 April 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[DanDoesWork]

It's a double edged sword isn't it? It helps so many people deal and improve their lifes, and on the flip side religion has created a long history of murder and hate.

For the sake of being positive I will have to say it's good. Who can really look down upon a something that can really improved their life through some sort of religion. Improving ranging from emotion, physical lifestyle, pain, depression, and addiction. Too bad there are just some people out there who make it their job to force religion down our throats.

Whether you believe it or not...we all should be just nice to people, and treat people with as much respect as possible. Life is just easier, and who knows that smile you give or that friendly gesture you give to someone might just change their perception on life/

[8143FF763271]

Depends on the society in question. When there's an efficient state that successful provides incentives for people to follow the law, religion is bad. In societies that depend on its citizens following a moral code, religion is very valuable.

[Lizard]

Ok, personally, I'm Catholic. I generally do try to be objective to religious topics. Although in answer to the question being asked, it really could go either way. In my opinion.
It's true that religion has caused all sorts of drama and violence and wars. But by no means are all wars caused by religion. I think that today the world isn't better off one way or the other. There are the people (I tend to like to group myself in this group) who are open minded and accepting of other beliefs and ideas. These people (we're assuming religious people here) base their attitude off of God's love and acceptance. Quite frankly, it annoys me to see people saying that someone is going to hell for whatever reason. As humans, we make mistakes. Jesus says in the Bible to let he who is without sin throw the first stone. Not only that, but as humans, it's not our job to judge someone for who they love, or what they believe, or what they want to do with their bodies. I kind of alluded to gay marriage here. For a reason. I believe that people are born a certain way for a reason. I won't go so far as to say that God made you how you are, because I've got quite a few friends who are adamant that God didn't create them. I kind of got off topic here, but basically, this kind of person uses their religion to make them a better person.

Then on the other side of that, there are the really bigoted, close minded Christians. I'm not going to go too deeply into this one, but in my very humble opinion, these people pick and choose what they want to follow out of the Bible. I don't think it's right, and I'm not likely to be good friends with these people, but that's their choice.

The same can be for atheists too, however. There are openminded people who are willing to accept someone's beliefs, and there are close minded people who assume that someone who believes something different from them are bad people.

No. Atheist don't believe in any powers. They probably don't find anything special about themselves, either.
They have no God to answer to if they have premarital sex or commit adultery. But they still have a sense of ethics, so that's why they're generally not out committing murders or robbing everyone they know. Some people do not require a belief in a God to be a graceful, decent, giving person. This is why I don't think that religion is needed as a moral compass, because without it, we'd probably still know it's not very nice to kill people, but I find it's useful to have around when it inspires people to do good for others.

See for me (as a Christian, I'm a little biased) that's a trait of a Christian person. THey might not be Christian. They might not even believe in God. But for me, being a decent and giving person is more of the basis for "true" Christianity.
I don't judge someone on their beliefs. I'm Christian, but there are plenty of Christians that I simply cannot be around. They infuriate me with their holier than thou attitude and their judgements. On that same note, I've got a couple of really close atheist friends. It doesn't bother me that they don't believe in my God. Or any god in general. They're good people. That's what matters to me.

It's a double edged sword isn't it? It helps so many people deal and improve their lifes, and on the flip side religion has created a long history of murder and hate.

For the sake of being positive I will have to say it's good. Who can really look down upon a something that can really improved their life through some sort of religion. Improving ranging from emotion, physical lifestyle, pain, depression, and addiction. Too bad there are just some people out there who make it their job to force religion down our throats.

Whether you believe it or not...we all should be just nice to people, and treat people with as much respect as possible. Life is just easier, and who knows that smile you give or that friendly gesture you give to someone might just change their perception on life/

For the most part, I agree. I think the biggest problem with religion is the extremists. The ones who believe in God think they have to stick their foot in everything and force a conversion or something, and the ones who don't just go around screaming how evil God is.

I hope I got this across how I intended. I'm not really good at communicating my thoughts.

Edit: I kind of made this more Christian than religion in general

Edited by Sarii, 05 November 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[Sweeney]

The idea of atheist "extremists" never fails to make me smirk patronisingly.

[luvsmyncis]

The idea of atheist "extremists" never fails to make me smirk patronisingly.

It pains me to see you atheists persecute people in the name of NOBODY.

[Sweeney]

It pains me to see you atheists persecute people in the name of NOBODY.

Oh, goodness. And that time we planted a bomb at a church? Such larks!

[Lizard]

The idea of atheist "extremists" never fails to make me smirk patronisingly.

There are atheists who are understanding about someone's religion. They might not believe that, but they realize that some people do. The extremists are the ones who are assholes about someone believing.

Honestly, Idgaf if you believe in God or not. I personally do. But to me, being a decent human being is more important than believing in God. Maybe that's just me though.

[Sweeney]

There are atheists who are understanding about someone's religion. They might not believe that, but they realize that some people do. The extremists are the ones who are assholes about someone believing.

Honestly, Idgaf if you believe in God or not. I personally do. But to me, being a decent human being is more important than believing in God. Maybe that's just me though.

Because being an asshole is the atheistic equivalent to religious people shooting doctors who perform abortions?

Being a dick isn't "extremism". It's just being a dick.

[Lizard]

Anyone can be extreme in their beliefs. Or lack thereof. I agree. Being a dick is just being a dick. I'm totally not saying that an asshole is the atheist equivalent of shooting doctors who perform abortions.
Christians have narrow things to be extreme on. Abortion. Gay people in general. Narrow minded things. The extreme atheists focus in on the group as a whole. Honestly I've lost a couple of friends because they found out I was Christian. Mind you, they knew damn well that I don't think there's anything wrong with being gay. As for abortion, I'll argue pro life, but in all honesty... If a woman wants to get an abortion, that's between her and her conscience. I might personally hate it, but I'm not about to go around judging those who do. For me, I don't feel like it's my fucking job to tell someone they're going to hell for what ever reason. That's not my decision. It's not my choice. They knew me and who I am, and yet, the minute they hear Christian, they forget all that. Apparently them knowing that I'm Christian is going to change my personality.

The atheist extremists are not rational at all in their hatred of religion. They hear some bad things, so they assume every Christian is like that. They assume that because someone believes in God, they're either stupid or damaged somehow. They assume that because they don't believe in a God, that that makes them innately smarter. If they see something positive, they twist it so that it looks negative. I've heard people say before that the only reason Christians are so giving is because it makes them look better, and they get a chance to shove their beliefs others.

If you don't agree with me, that's not a big deal. We'll just have different opinions. But atheists can be extreme.

[Sweeney]

It's still funny that for you, extreme atheism (being rude) is comparable to extreme religion (mass murder).

You can say that you're not equating them... but then you do it again.

(And for the record, I've never encountered anyone who behaves like you say).

[luvsmyncis]

I've heard people say before that the only reason Christians are so giving is because it makes them look better, and they get a chance to shove their beliefs others.

People say that because it is true. I have volunteered my time on behalf of charities organized by devout followers of Jesus. Many times. And every single time, the people in charge were always more concerned with what they personally gain from it than actually helping the people who are in need.

My family and I did face painting at a Spring festival and we charged one ticket ($0.50) for a small design and two tickets ($1.00) for a full face painting. All the supplies and paintbrushes were of no cost to the church, as we supplied them all ourselves. At the end of the sweltering 10 hour day, when our bucket of tickets was collected, we were scolded for not charging enough.

This was just one of many bad experiences. I was around long enough to see quite clearly the church didn't give two shits about the children of their parish. My mom's boyfriend is in charge of things at his Baptist Church and he is constantly bombarded with demands from bickering old women who think they know better.

I am certain you will agree this is not the ideal Christian behavior, but it is how the majority of Christians behave. There are small populations who are probably tolerant and loving as Jesus wants them to be, and there are small populations that kill people because God (i.e. their dog) told them to.

I would rather spend the day with an atheist dickweed who gives their time to genuinely help the needy than to spend the day with a Christian who won't shut up about how good God is when there is a starving, homeless human being right in front of them.

[Kurtle]

I would have said WITHOUT but my mum only quit being and alcoholic after finding buddah in rehab.... True story.
So I'm not really sure....

[Krolartemiza]

I voted inconsequential. I think people place too much importance on religion affecting global trends. Usually, religion is used as an excuse rather than the real underlying reasons. Spirituality can encourage greatness in people. The only problem occurs when people try to establish a hierarchy in religion and use that position of power to further their own agenda.

And for the record, I've actually had someone look at the cross around my neck and say "I don't think you'll fit in here." It was my university professor for biology. Since then, any time I raise my hand, she asks me if my god disagrees with the lesson. I ended up having to drop the class, so for the record, there is the WBC equivalent for everyone. Saying that your group is infallible or inherently better seems just a bit hypocritical.

[Sweeney]

Yup, a dick professor is definitely equivalent to the Westboro Baptist Church xD

[Romy]

I ended up having to drop the class, so for the record, there is the WBC equivalent for everyone. Saying that your group is infallible or inherently better seems just a bit hypocritical.

Um...because your professor picking on you is the same as picketing a soldiers funeral and blaming his death on "the gays"?

[RitzWin]

Ok, personally, I'm Catholic. I generally do try to be objective to religious topics.

Saved me a read, thx.

[leurz]

It's not fair to make a dichotomy out of extreme religion vs. extreme atheism. What about Jainist extremists (i guess all of them...with those bug brooms)? Or Buddhist Extremists (sitting under a tree for seven years)? Or extreme Tibetan buddhists (Wearing very silly hats and chanting all day) That's way nicer than being an atheist extremist, which I think falls very near "Mac Users" on the asshole scale.

[Unseelie]

I was raised in a high-control cult. It came out (via my mother reading my diary) that I didn't believe in God or our religion when I was fourteen. I was summarily pulled out of public school and kept away from anyone who wasn't a member of our religion for the next three years. Literally kept under house-arrest.

My entire childhood, I was raised to believe that everyone who wasn't a member of our church was going to die in Armageddon, which would happen "in my lifetime". I wasn't allowed to participate in extra-curricular activities when I was still in school, and had to hide most of the books that I read, as they might contain 'dangerous thinking'. I attended church three times a week, and spent my weekends prosthelytizing. I wasn't allowed to make any friends in school outside the religion. I didn't celebrate Christmas, birthdays, or any other holidays. Every effort to brainwash my thought patterns and destroy my spirit was made, both by my family and by the religious leaders of the cult.

I'm personally against religion. Furthermore, there is all the evidence in the world—literally—for evolution, and absolutely none for religion. There are even evolutionary reasons that predispose humanity to create myths regarding higher powers and the afterlife. I don't understand why any thinking, rational person would actually believe in a God, and I never will.

That said, I don't go around arguing with people about it. I spent seventeen years of my life trying to convert people to one religion, I'm not going to waste my time now trying to convert people to atheism. If someone wants to believe in religion, I just silently judge them and change the subject.

[Sweeney]

I was raised in a high-control cult.

LDS?

[leurz]

Sounds like Jehovahs Witnesses. They don't celebrate holdays.

[luvsmyncis]

That said, I don't go around arguing with people about it. I spent seventeen years of my life trying to convert people to one religion, I'm not going to waste my time now trying to convert people to atheism. If someone wants to believe in religion, I just silently judge them and change the subject.

Judge them? Maybe they're being held against their will like you were. Maybe they do believe, but they're not as fanatical as your parents. It's not very nice to have such a superior attitude just because you had bad experiences. Did your religion teach you to turn your nose up at people like that?