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Zoinks! NFL player doesn't stand for National Anthem!


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#26 Swar

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 01:50 PM

Not to my knowledge. He asked to be traded from the 49ers because they are determined to screw themselves into last place, even though a few short years ago they were incredible. He also said that both Trump and Clinton were bad people, so maybe that made some people upset. Idk.

If that's all, these people are incredibly stupid. What the fuck, comparing a monster to someone not standing up for the national anthem?! I like how it says on the article,

 

This is a league that has signed domestic abusers, accused murderers, players who killed another person while driving drunk and dudes who park in handicap spaces. But Kaepernick is the most hated person he's ever seen? A nonviolent protest? Really?

 

Yes, apparently, really.



#27 Coops

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 01:55 PM

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#28 Kaddict

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 09:47 AM

For me, Coops and Swarley hit it right on the head. I don't necessarily share his same opinions, and I probably (dunno, I am not in his shoes [or socks]) would try to protest in a different way--but why is this news? Why do the rapists get a pass, but the non-violent protesters are getting millions of people to call for his employers to fire him?

 

Then other people are saying "Sitting doesn't do anything, why doesn't he quit his job and go do something to really help the cause?" Well, he seems to have gotten more people talking than maybe any other protester has in the past. He is doing more for the cause right now than he could in any other station.

 

Again, not agreeing with his actions, just pointing out the logic behind why I am not really bothered by this.



#29 cara

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 11:03 AM

Guns aren't the problem, people are.

 

'The United States has more guns and gun deaths than any other developed country in the world, researchers found. A study by two New York City cardiologists found that the U.S. has 88 guns per 100 people and 10 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people - more than any of the other 27 developed countries they studied.'

 

qmcmj.jpg

 

 

edit: in the interest of not having a completely off topic post: I think he sat to bring attention to a cause that he believes in. There's nothing wrong with peaceful protest. And no, I don't think he should be fired because this is viewed as unprofessional work conduct. If I get smashed at a work event, I would be fired. The two are not comparable. He was peacefully sitting down. I do not understand American patriotism at this level.



#30 Ladida

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 12:55 PM

For me, Coops and Swarley hit it right on the head. I don't necessarily share his same opinions, and I probably (dunno, I am not in his shoes [or socks]) would try to protest in a different way--but why is this news? Why do the rapists get a pass, but the non-violent protesters are getting millions of people to call for his employers to fire him?

 

Then other people are saying "Sitting doesn't do anything, why doesn't he quit his job and go do something to really help the cause?" Well, he seems to have gotten more people talking than maybe any other protester has in the past. He is doing more for the cause right now than he could in any other station.

 

Again, not agreeing with his actions, just pointing out the logic behind why I am not really bothered by this.

I don't follow sports in general. Why haven't steps been taken to get rid of these criminals? I'm absolutely horrified at this glorification of people in sports, giving them a free pass to rape, pillage, and burn. This guy's sit in doesn't even compare. If anything, it's detracting people's attention from the criminals in the team who shouldn't even be there.


Edited by Ladida, 02 September 2016 - 12:55 PM.


#31 Jess

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 01:13 PM

'The [/size]United States has more guns and gun deaths than any other developed country in the world, researchers found. A study by two New York City cardiologists found that the [/size]U.S. has 88 guns per 100 people and 10 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people - more than any of the other 27 developed countries they studied.'[/size]
 
qmcmj.jpg

I can't get your source link to work. We also have the 4th highest rate of mental illness in the world, how does that play into your belief that guns are more of an issue than people?

 

I also don't give a shit what other countries think. If I thought other countries were better, I would be working at moving to one of them. Shooting guns is fun.
 

edit: in the interest of not having a completely off topic post: I think he sat to bring attention to a cause that he believes in. There's nothing wrong with peaceful protest. And no, I don't think he should be fired because this is viewed as unprofessional work conduct. If I get smashed at a work event, I would be fired. The two are not comparable. He was peacefully sitting down. I do not understand American patriotism at this level.

Firing someone for not adhering to company policy isn't patriotism, it's capitalism.



#32 cara

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 01:31 PM

Shooting guns is fun.

 

Can't argue with that logic.

 

Edit: My source: ABC News http://abcnews.go.co...ry-study-finds/



#33 Jess

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 01:36 PM

Can't argue with that logic.

 

Edit: My source: ABC News http://abcnews.go.co...ry-study-finds/

It's fine, I found a list of developed countries, which is what I was trying to determine anyway and concluded the CIA is racist. I think it's interesting that the vast majority of the countries on the list are either surrounded by other developed countries or islands. I wonder if the numbers would be different if they all had a Mexico attached.



#34 Kaddict

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 02:01 PM

It's fine, I found a list of developed countries, which is what I was trying to determine anyway and concluded the CIA is racist. I think it's interesting that the vast majority of the countries on the list are either surrounded by other developed countries or islands. I wonder if the numbers would be different if they all had a Mexico attached.

haha. True. I have always found it funny when people say "well finland and iceland do this and don't have this other problem." Oh yeah, because the fact that we have 40-1000x their population and that we have tons of different cultures trying to live together with very different ideas of what is socially acceptable make the two cases very comparable.



#35 Jess

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 02:13 PM

haha. True. I have always found it funny when people say "well finland and iceland do this and don't have this other problem." Oh yeah, because the fact that we have 40-1000x their population and that we have tons of different cultures trying to live together with very different ideas of what is socially acceptable make the two cases very comparable.

One of the things I thought was interesting was that out of this list of developed countries, Poland actually has more gun-related unintentional gun-related accidents than we do, so I guess our widespread ownership and knowledge pays off that way?



#36 cara

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 03:02 PM

haha. True. I have always found it funny when people say "well finland and iceland do this and don't have this other problem." Oh yeah, because the fact that we have 40-1000x their population and that we have tons of different cultures trying to live together with very different ideas of what is socially acceptable make the two cases very comparable.

 

I'm sorry but that reasoning is so flawed.

 

 

Gun deaths in US remain highest among 23 high-income nations worldwide. A new study published in the March 2016 issue of The American Journal of Medicine reveals that Americans are 10 times more likely to die from firearms than citizens of other developed countries.

Specifically, gun homicide rates are 25 times higher in the U.S. and, while the overall suicide rate is on par with other high-income nations, the U.S. gun suicide rate is eight times higher. http://amjmed.org/vi...ther-countries/

 

 

 

The U.S. represents less than 5% of the 7.3 billion global population but accounted for 31% of global mass shooters during the period from 1966 to 2012, more than any other country, Mr. Lankford said, adding that he defines a mass shooter as one who killed at least four victims.  http://www.wsj.com/a...ings-1443905359

 

 

 

This level of violence makes the United States an extreme outlier when measured against the experience of other advanced countries.

Around the world, those countries have substantially lower rates of deaths from gun homicide. In Germany, being murdered with a gun is as uncommon as being killed by a falling object in the United States. About two people out of every million are killed in a gun homicide. Gun homicides are just as rare in several other European countries, including the Netherlands and Austria.  http://www.nytimes.c...rent-world.html

 

 

 

In Poland and England, only about one out of every million people die in gun homicides each year — about as often as an American dies in an agricultural accident or falling from a ladder. In Japan, where gun homicides are even rarer, the likelihood of dying this way is about the same as an American’s chance of being killed by lightning — roughly one in 10 million.

 

Spoiler

 

I could keep going but .. I don't know why I would. I know the arguments that 'shooting is fun' and 'the CIA is racist' sounds good, but I'm not sure if I'm convinced .. Even the argument of 'we're multi-cultural' confuses me. Look at Canada, for example ..

 

And it's funny, but I kind of want to be convinced. I have so many American friends that own and love their damn guns and I want to think that they're not stupid for that. So, convince me with better arguments ....... 

 

In order to fix a problem, you need to admit there is one. Not blaming Mexico or the CIA or mixed cultures for gun violence.


Damn, I guess I lied about not going on. Because I kept reading for fun and ran into this:

 

 

 

In a 2013 article for The Atlantic online that compared gun deaths in U.S. cities to some of the deadliest places in the world, the authors created a map, below, that shows Atlanta has the same gun murder rate as South Africa, Detroit as El Salvador, Phoenix equal to Mexico’s gun homicide rate http://www.humanosph...u-s-rest-world/

 

 

 

The U.S. has higher rates of homicides from guns than Pakistan. At 4.5 deaths per 100,000 people, the U.S. rates aren’t much lower than gun homicide rates in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (5.2 deaths per 100,000 people). Annually, the U.S. has about two fewer gun homicide deaths per 100,000 people than Iraq, which has 6.5 deaths per 100,000.

 

:lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:  :lol2:



#37 Jess

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 06:41 AM

And it's funny, but I kind of want to be convinced. I have so many American friends that own and love their damn guns and I want to think that they're not stupid for that. So, convince me with better arguments ....... 
 
In order to fix a problem, you need to admit there is one. Not blaming Mexico or the CIA or mixed cultures for gun violence.

There is one. I'm not saying there isn't one. I'm just saying it isn't inherently the fault of guns. Gun ownership in the US has actually fallen 30% over the past decade. People choose to use them irresponsibly, just like alcohol (which has more deaths than guns.) During prohibition, there were even more alcohol-related deaths and incidents. There is a right way and a wrong way to use them, just like anything else.

 

We can forget about Mexico, there's not really any way to track illegal import/export of guns.

 

A racist CIA was more of a jab at the fact there are countries on par economically through exporting raw materials with "developed countries" but don't make the cut due to (I think, cause I can't see anything else besides a lack of disease) lack of modern technological infrastructure. It's coincidental they're mostly brown countries.



#38 Mishelle

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 07:33 AM

I hope he continues to sit. The guy who wrote the anthem was an unrepentant slaveowning racist anyway.

I don't really understand how not standing for the national anthem is a protest against oppression. Sure, I guess it could mean you don't really like what our anthem stands for because of the fact it symbolises our nation who oppresses people, but that's all I can think of. If he really wanted to protest, he could have started a protest, written letters to congress, went out to speak with people and try and make a difference.

Of course, you don't have to stand for the anthem, that's true, it's not written in law. But it's sort of a tradition and a show of respect I guess to stand for it.

Everyone is talking about it. We're talking about it right now. That's how it's a protest. And he's also donated 1 million dollars to charities who support his cause.

I don't follow sports in general. Why haven't steps been taken to get rid of these criminals? I'm absolutely horrified at this glorification of people in sports, giving them a free pass to rape, pillage, and burn. This guy's sit in doesn't even compare. If anything, it's detracting people's attention from the criminals in the team who shouldn't even be there.

Because they run fast and make their team owners billions of dollars.

#39 cara

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 09:19 AM

There is one. I'm not saying there isn't one. I'm just saying it isn't inherently the fault of guns. Gun ownership in the US has actually fallen 30% over the past decade. People choose to use them irresponsibly, just like alcohol (which has more deaths than guns.) During prohibition, there were even more alcohol-related deaths and incidents. There is a right way and a wrong way to use them, just like anything else.

We can forget about Mexico, there's not really any way to track illegal import/export of guns.

A racist CIA was more of a jab at the fact there are countries on par economically through exporting raw materials with "developed countries" but don't make the cut due to (I think, cause I can't see anything else besides a lack of disease) lack of modern technological infrastructure. It's coincidental they're mostly brown countries.


My issue with the thought of 'it's not the guns, it's the people' is with the fact of how easily obtainable guns are. I don't know the statistics between gun violence with illegal guns vs legal ones .. But I would imagine that a good chunk of gun crimes are with illegal guns (not legally owned by the person using them). I think that could potentially be a result of having so many guns issued legally that the amount of guns that fall into the 'wrong hands' are so much more than other countries because you guys just have so many more in general. But I'm not sure, I'd have to fact check on that. And it's 10am and I haven't slept yet so I don't even know if I'm making much sense.

I hear what you are saying about the mental illness facts, though. I think that to me is as plausible as a 'not the guns fault' argument will get. That mixed with the fact that you guys do have a gun control issue (being the above that I mentioned).

#40 Jess

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 09:42 AM

My issue with the thought of 'it's not the guns, it's the people' is with the fact of how easily obtainable guns are. I don't know the statistics between gun violence with illegal guns vs legal ones .. But I would imagine that a good chunk of gun crimes are with illegal guns (not legally owned by the person using them). I think that could potentially be a result of having so many guns issued legally that the amount of guns that fall into the 'wrong hands' are so much more than other countries because you guys just have so many more in general. But I'm not sure, I'd have to fact check on that. And it's 10am and I haven't slept yet so I don't even know if I'm making much sense.

I hear what you are saying about the mental illness facts, though. I think that to me is as plausible as a 'not the guns fault' argument will get. That mixed with the fact that you guys do have a gun control issue (being the above that I mentioned).

I doubt there are many/any stats on it, because what qualifies as "legal" varies wildly depending on what state you're in. There are states I can't even take my unloaded gun I "legally" own to, but there's other states where I can take my other, unregistered gun to. When I was in Illinois, I got told I couldn't even legally shoot someone else's gun, regardless of the status of the gun itself.

 

The only issue I have with seeing it as a gun control issue and not a mental illness issue, is if we were to take away all the "legal" guns, we would still have a huge (top 4 in the world, according to a thing I read yesterday) mental illness issue and there isn't a really good way to restrict use or purchase of "illegal" guns til someone gets caught with one. I would much rather have a long-term plan in place that would focus on gun education classes first (because I think even one accident is one too many) and a better system to handle mental illness, since we already have this issue and so many guns in circulation.



#41 Adam

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 10:30 AM

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1947995

 

 

Who is the racist here?

 

Edit: Racism is kept alive because of people like this. Words are a powerful tool.



#42 Kaddict

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 10:53 AM

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1947995

 

 

Who is the racist here?

 

Edit: Racism is kept alive because of people like this. Words are a powerful tool.

I like how even the guy that was supposedly called the racial slur said that kaepernick didn't say anything racist. Oh well. Referees gotta act like they are in charge.



#43 Mishelle

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 10:59 AM

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1947995
 
 
Who is the racist here?
 
Edit: Racism is kept alive because of people like this. Words are a powerful tool.


Adam, as a person who's actually experienced racism. It's kept alive by way more than the word nigga. It's a system of oppression that has lasted for centuries before the word even existed. You can perpetuate racism without having to even say anything. Furthermore, did you even read the article you posted?

Kaepernick denied he said anything racist when he and Bears defensive end Lamarr Houston exchanged words after he gave up a fourth quarter interception in the Week 2 loss. Kaepernick, who signed a $126 million extension during the off-season, was intercepted three times.

“I didn’t say anything,” Kaepernick told reporters, adding he would appeal the fine. But reports say Kaepernick used the "N" word.

"Colin says he didn't say anything, this person says what they say and somebody else heard something else," 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh told Fox Sports. "I don't have a stance. You can only imagine. I don't have a stance because I don't know, I didn't hear it. Colin's always been truthful 100 percent of the time."



#44 Coops

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 11:14 AM

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1947995

 

 

Who is the racist here?

 

Edit: Racism is kept alive because of people like this. Words are a powerful tool.

What are you trying to say? Tell me like I'm five, because I feel like I'm misunderstanding you, and I don't wanna assume.



#45 Adam

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 11:14 AM

Adam, as a person who's actually experienced racism. It's kept alive by way more than the word nigga. It's a system of oppression that has lasted for centuries before the word even existed. You can perpetuate racism without having to even say anything. Furthermore, did you even read the article you posted?
 

Surely that word constantly being spit out over and over again in just about every (main stream) hip hop song doesn't help anything. Also, sorry I posted that without giving a proper and complete thought; I've had WAY too much coffee and my hands were shaking. I've eaten and I'm a little bit better now. What I meant to point out is that the media will try and and make everything a race issue even though there isn't one...gosh especially fox news.

 

Oh and I've experienced racism too. I got into an argument with some kid at work when he stated that just because I'm white that I'm inherently racist...I think that's a bit racist in itself, no? Note: The amount of discomfort I felt when he said that to me does not compare to the systematic racism blacks feel on the daily.



#46 Mishelle

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 11:24 AM

Surely that word constantly being spit out over and over again in just about every (main stream) hip hop song doesn't help anything. Also, sorry I posted that without giving a proper and complete thought; I've had WAY too much coffee and my hands were shaking. I've eaten and I'm a little bit better now. What I meant to point out is that the media will try and and make everything a race issue even though there isn't one...gosh especially fox news.

Oh and I've experienced racism too. I got into an argument with some kid at work when he stated that just because I'm white that I'm inherently racist...I think that's a bit racist in itself, no? Note: The amount of discomfort I felt when he said that to me does not compare to the systematic racism blacks feel on the daily.

So by your logic Honkey Tonk Badonkadonk perpetuates systemic marginalization of white people. Cuz you know, it has the word Honkey in it. Black people do not perpetuate racism against ourselves. We didn't start it. If Black people could singlehandedly end racism against us don't you think we would've done it a long ass time ago? Respectability politics isn't going to end racism. We tried that with Rosa Parks, she still got her ass beat.

And no pointing that out is not racist to say. In America we are all raised in an inherently racist society. Even Black people have to deal with internalized anti-Blackness that comes from living in a society that's constantly telling you you're inferior. (Please use this moment to google the concept of Looking Glass Self) The problem is that white people think that pointing out their socially conditioned racism means that they're a bad person. They personally conflate being called racist with being called a bad person and care more about their reputation than correcting the racist behavior. Everyone grows up with racial bias, internalized sexism, internalized homophobia, and internalized transphobia. It's very recent that we as a society began to unpack how social conditioning affects how we see, treat and think about people.

#47 Adam

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 04:00 PM

I guess I'm a firm believer in starting somewhere, and constantly using the N word isn't doing much to get rid of racism. Kind of in the same way calling women: bitches, hoes, sluts, etc doesn't do much for equality? Degrading others, and your own people by using derogatory words and slang is just dumb. It really just doesn't help anyone in the least bit.



#48 cara

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 05:54 PM

I doubt there are many/any stats on it, because what qualifies as "legal" varies wildly depending on what state you're in. There are states I can't even take my unloaded gun I "legally" own to, but there's other states where I can take my other, unregistered gun to. When I was in Illinois, I got told I couldn't even legally shoot someone else's gun, regardless of the status of the gun itself.

The only issue I have with seeing it as a gun control issue and not a mental illness issue, is if we were to take away all the "legal" guns, we would still have a huge (top 4 in the world, according to a thing I read yesterday) mental illness issue and there isn't a really good way to restrict use or purchase of "illegal" guns til someone gets caught with one. I would much rather have a long-term plan in place that would focus on gun education classes first (because I think even one accident is one too many) and a better system to handle mental illness, since we already have this issue and so many guns in circulation.


But we're not talking about accidental gun deaths. That's a whole different beast in my mind. Providing education on that is a fix for a different problem. The 'big' gun control issue is addressing gun crimes and violence, not little Jimmy shooting himself in the foot. If you're saying that mental illness is the key issue, then why is that not being addressed? And either way, it kind of comes hand in hand I think. Guns are extremely accessible and easily obtained by people with mental illnesses which in turn can result in gun violence. I'm not sure what the statistics are regarding gun violence committed by criminals versus people with mental illness (or are they one in the same once the crime is committed?) so it's hard for me to gauge whether that is a small portion of the gun crimes or a large portion. Either way, if I lived in a country with this issue I would have no problem with them enforcing stricter gun laws. I think it's just hard for me to wrap my head around why so many people find that to be outrageous and a breach of their rights. I don't get how Americans feel like it's their given right to own a gun, even when so many people have proven that they have abused that right.

#49 Mishelle

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 06:06 PM

I guess I'm a firm believer in starting somewhere, and constantly using the N word isn't doing much to get rid of racism. Kind of in the same way calling women: bitches, hoes, sluts, etc doesn't do much for equality? Degrading others, and your own people by using derogatory words and slang is just dumb. It really just doesn't help anyone in the least bit.


The old white woman who took one look at me when I stood behind her in line and moved her purse from behind her to in front of her didn't particularly strike me as Lil Wayne fan. All the couples who stared at me like an alien when I was in Coronado didn't give me the vibe that they listened to Futures new mixtape. Which is fine, it wasn't that good anyway. I wonder what all those white people who moved out of Inglewood when people like my grandma moved in were listening to. It probably wasn't Hip Hip, cuz it wasn't invented yet. If you don't like the word that's fine. A lot of people don't. But to blame a single word for something that's been going on for literal centuries is some of the more privileged and oblivious BS I've heard in a while.

#50 Jess

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 06:08 PM

I believe gun education would fix more than accidental deaths, it would lead to a sense of responsibility and action ownership among people on a relatable level, since they're so easily accessible. (Ie teens in poverty and others who don't have control over certain aspects of their lives, in the same way other sports are used.) I didn't really clarify that earlier.

I have no idea. I'm assuming money and regulations, since that's why most health issues aren't addressed. If I were in charge of the world, things would be a lot different.

As far as I know, they're the same unless proven otherwise. I go way out of my way to avoid the news though, so I don't know for sure what they've been doing lately or what kind of evaluations are involved, who pays for it, or whether that's dependent on where they are. I'm inclined to say that if you grab a weapon with the intent of murdering someone and follow through, gun or not, then you have some kind of mental issue. That's more of a philosophical debate though.


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