303 replies to this topic

[Sweeney]

You know the only time you insult me is when I've left you with nothing left to nitpick at? I started off by stating it was just my opinion. It's not my fault you have selective reading issues that I have to repeat myself. lol

That's because I can't argue with "it's just my opinion". That stance is so violently illogical.
"It's just my opinion" is meaningless... not all opinions are equal.

[Habanero]

Well it IS the debate forum. I might be new here but, just saying it's your opinion doesn't validate your arguement.

[Sweeney]

Well it IS the debate forum. I might be new here but, just saying it's your opinion doesn't validate your arguement.

39 posts, and already proving wise.

[Maloo]

Innocence? What if the victim is a prostitute, or a promiscuous slutty slutty woman? She's probably just asking for it. If the crime fits the punishment...

I have always felt the Death Penalty and prison are sort of like rewards. I mean, you're done something terrible, but when they execute you, it's quiet, peaceful and humane. They even let you have a last meal that can be all mint chocolate chip ice cream if you want. And I am not saying prison is a walk in the park, but you get to watch tv, have a shower, work out, three square meals a day, and you don't have to smile at anyone everyday. Do you know how ideal that sounds to me? Sometimes I don't even get three meals a day! I wish there were some way of putting those prisoners to work to do something constructive. Are there any programs like that where they contribute something good back to society besides trash pick up?

Oh, we have some pretty cool ones here in Brazil, where the prisoners renovate the streets, buildings and whatnot, and their penalty is reduced in exchange. I don't know exactly how it works though, but I like the fact that they're not just sitting there while we pay for their food with our taxes.
Oh, also, we don't have death penalty here, which I think is nice, to be honest.

[Frizzle]

ITT: People who have no concept of rape, punishment, justice systems or psychology.

Hahaha "DNA evidence"...

[Nymh]

I was speaking in reference to my friend Punk.

She had her virginity taken from her.

EDIT: Anyway, no one DESERVES to get raped. It's a terrible experience to have to endure.




Very true. I still feel like they should suffer in one way or another.

Death is too easy.

No one deserves to be murdered or have their dick cut off either.

[HannahElizabeth]

What about people who are found guilty by law but are actually innocent?

Which is why the death penalty should be abolished altogether. Even DNA is not infallible. Besides, state sanctioned murder merely validates the criminals. For those who say it's a deterrent; take a look at Death Row figures. There's your deterrent right there. It was abolished here in the UK decades ago, and I can safely assure you society has not broken down as a result.

[Romy]

No one deserves to be murdered or have their dick cut off either.

If they used it to do something as horrible as rape, i think they do.

One who violates the human rights of another, forfeits their own.

[Sweeney]

If they used it to do something as horrible as rape, i think they do.

One who violates the human rights of another, forfeits their own.

Ever heard of an infinite regress?

[Sweeney]

Very poetic, but utterly irrelevant.

[nelsontan]

i think they should be send for counseling, if happen again for 2nd time, life time prision.

[Romy]

Spoiler

Actually, if you look at people that have been "chemically castrated" you'll find a very high rate of future violence against women and men. Rape is violence, not sex.

The Nym(p)h said that "No one deserves to be murdered or have their dick cut off either". I'll take her point one step further. Does any daughter of the Creator deserve to die of leukemia before they turn 21. Does any boy deserve watching his beloved waste away each and every day. At the end, there are not enough red blood cells to oxygenate the tissue, the joints swell, the organs swell, there is nothing but pain and pain and pain and not a damn thing I could do about it. Well, one thing, at the end. Deserve has very little to do with what happens in this world, none of us "deserve" to be born, none of us deserve to have any chance to walk the green woods and dance in the sweet rain, none of us deserve the chance to see our children born. It is a gift, and never forget that each day is a gift and a chance to become more, be more, love more, laugh more, see more just BE!

But we don't deserve it.

Um...
i don't see how getting leukemia equates to getting raped.
Though...I'm sorry about your loved one.

i think they should be send for counseling, if happen again for 2nd time, life time prision.

SAY WHAT?!
You think that sending them to a few sessions will prevent them from raping again?

Ever heard of an infinite regress?

Yeah.

I don't know..
I just feel like...raping someone (like killing them) is one of the darkest things a human being is capable of doing to another.
It destroys them emotionally, physically and mentally.
I don't want a rapist to live the rest of his days comfortable in their cell or getting executed while their victim is forced to carry on the demented memory of their assault.

Edited by Ivysaur, 21 July 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[Maloo]

Actually, if you look at people that have been "chemically castrated" you'll find a very high rate of future violence against women and men. Rape is violence, not sex.

The Nym(p)h said that "No one deserves to be murdered or have their dick cut off either". I'll take her point one step further. Does any daughter of the Creator deserve to die of leukemia before they turn 21. Does any boy deserve watching his beloved waste away each and every day. At the end, there are not enough red blood cells to oxygenate the tissue, the joints swell, the organs swell, there is nothing but pain and pain and pain and not a damn thing I could do about it. Well, one thing, at the end. Deserve has very little to do with what happens in this world, none of us "deserve" to be born, none of us deserve to have any chance to walk the green woods and dance in the sweet rain, none of us deserve the chance to see our children born. It is a gift, and never forget that each day is a gift and a chance to become more, be more, love more, laugh more, see more just BE!

But we don't deserve it.

Shit, so much critisism , so little time..
I just stopped taking you seriously after "Does any daughter of the Creator..." and realized this would be a whole bunch of you preaching and poetic bullshit.

Edited by Maloo, 21 July 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[Habanero]

Actually, if you look at people that have been "chemically castrated" you'll find a very high rate of future violence against women and men. Rape is violence, not sex.

The Nym(p)h said that "No one deserves to be murdered or have their dick cut off either". I'll take her point one step further. Does any daughter of the Creator deserve to die of leukemia before they turn 21. Does any boy deserve watching his beloved waste away each and every day. At the end, there are not enough red blood cells to oxygenate the tissue, the joints swell, the organs swell, there is nothing but pain and pain and pain and not a damn thing I could do about it. Well, one thing, at the end. Deserve has very little to do with what happens in this world, none of us "deserve" to be born, none of us deserve to have any chance to walk the green woods and dance in the sweet rain, none of us deserve the chance to see our children born. It is a gift, and never forget that each day is a gift and a chance to become more, be more, love more, laugh more, see more just BE!

But we don't deserve it.

Uh, this has nothing to do with the topic.
One is violence afflicted by another.
The other are diseases people tend to get.

[Ladida]

I don't want a rapist to live the rest of his days comfortable in their cell or getting executed while their victim is forced to carry on the demented memory of their assault.

I've noticed that the general public doesn't show as much concern for the victim/s (unless it was an absolutely horrific crime, like the Shafia murders) as they do for the criminals. I have no idea why. The criminals are getting psychiatric help or counselling in prison, while the victims are left with the families if they have any, to pick up the pieces of what was once their lives. It's always "Yes, the criminal did something horrible, but..", and following that but comes a list of human rights that cannot be violated, with no mention of what the victim has gone through, is going through. No mention is made as to what is being done to help the victim. People need to keep in mind the victims as well, the victims just disappear while everyone fights for the rights of someone who violated someone else's rights. If countries don't have the death penalty (mine does but hasn't used it in a while), then at least give rapists life without the possibility of parole, just so that they won't be threats to the women in their society anymore. I've always wondered, thanks to Lifetime tv, what the victims go through when their rapists get paroled. Ivy, since you have (unfortunately) first-hand knowledge, can you say what was done by the system to help your friend? Did they offer her free counselling? Were there any measures that were put in place to make her feel safe? Is her attacker at large/in jail/released from jail?

There was a girl at my University who was sexually attacked. She made a complaint with the police, and to my horror, the general public turned on her calling her a whore, slut, lying bitch. People said she was asking for it. Even women were saying this. I don't know what is going on in their minds, but to think it's ok to blame the victim is twisted as Hell. There's a whole weird stigma attached to rape, and that needs to change.

[Maloo]

[Mishelle]

The problem is getting them put in jail in the first place. So many sex offenders go unpunished because people are shamed into silence when it comes to rape. Everyone wants to know what the victim did to bring on the rape. What were they wearing? Were they dating? Did they lead them on? Most rapes are committed by someone the victims know but for some reason people only seem to focus on "forcible rapes" which is an oxymoron, aren't all rapes forcible? That's why its called rape. Many rapists don't spend a day in jail. I think we should focus on getting them behind bars before debating on what we should do with them.

Edited by Mishelle, 21 July 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[Romy]

Ivy, since you have (unfortunately) first-hand knowledge, can you say what was done by the system to help your friend? Did they offer her free counselling? Were there any measures that were put in place to make her feel safe? Is her attacker at large/in jail/released from jail?

Since the person that did so was a relative, she was placed in protective custody. They gave her counseling but..it was extremely ineffective.
It was more to make sure she wouldn't kill herself then to actually try to help her move on. They placed her on medication and canceled the counseling after they deemed her "mentally stable".
She bounced around foster parents until her ex Boyfriends' mother (who is a judge that specializes in "family" law) finally got custody.
The person who assaulted her (step-father) never went to prison because her mother refused to testify (the girl said it was because she feared abuse).

There was a girl at my University who was sexually attacked. She made a complaint with the police, and to my horror, the general public turned on her calling her a whore, slut, lying bitch. People said she was asking for it. Even women were saying this. I don't know what is going on in their minds, but to think it's ok to blame the victim is twisted as Hell. There's a whole weird stigma attached to rape, and that needs to change.

This sums things up perfectly.
No one in her family believed her. It wasn't until she told a few friends and myself that we realized what was going on. We pushed her to tell out schools administration.

[Habanero]

I speak poetically of my dead wife, she's dead, what else can I do for her. What do you want me to call her, "vulture food"? Her bones have long been picked clean, gathered and returned to the earth.

It has nothing to do with this debate.

[Yung]

People keep taking about "justice", this is why it is on topic. For my current beloved, the damn soul that abused her is dead, the parents that did not protect her our dead, yet do you really think that brought a damn bit of peace of mind to her?
Do you believe that revenge gives comfort to the victims, do you think it should. Revenge and anger are poor tools to cope with pain, rarely have I seen them work.

Going with your off topic incessant point... why on earth are you even talking about someone who died from a disease? You're now bringing up revenge, presumably referencing this debate about rape, so are you trying to some how tie in revenge on diseases and viruses that are outside of the realm of getting revenge on them?

Not that her dying doesn't matter, because clearly it mattered and does matter to you, but what does this have to do with a discussion pertaining rape?

[HannahElizabeth]

The problem is getting them put in jail in the first place. So many sex offenders go unpunished because people are shamed into silence when it comes to rape. Everyone wants to know what the victim did to bring on the rape. What were they wearing? Were they dating? Did they lead them on? Most rapes are committed by someone the victims know but for some reason people only seem to focus on "forcible rapes" which is an oxymoron, aren't all rapes forcible? That's why its called rape. Many rapists don't spend a day in jail. I think we should focus on getting them behind bars before debating on what we should do with them.

Excellent post, and I agree wholeheartedly. We should be looking at enforcing the law as it stands, removing the culture of blame that surrounds the victims, and focusing on them. Punitive measures (that, let's be honest are more about revenge than justice) can wait. There should be more money invested in victim support, rather than perpetrators.

Edited by HannahElizabeth, 23 July 2012 - 06:20 AM.

[Waser Lave]

Most rapes are committed by someone the victims know but for some reason people only seem to focus on "forcible rapes" which is an oxymoron, aren't all rapes forcible? That's why its called rape.

Consensual sex where one person is below the age of consent is also classed as rape (because the under-age person can't legally consent to it) so there is a valid distinction to be made.