62 replies to this topic

[Melchoire]

Why bring in personal attacks. And I find it reassuring that there's we've an army to protect us in case something goes wrong

Well, what are they protecting us from then?

[Mr. Hobo]

Well, what are they protecting us from then?

Most recently when Newfoundland got wrecked by that hurricane they were there helping out

I'd say it's mostly for the 'what if' factor but there are plenty of concrete examples

[Ment0r]

Your time in the army was time well wasted...no one needed you to fight for them.

While I agree that Wikileaks is not the enemy of the state... Saying that his Service to his country has been time wasted is completely wrong. Some people in other countries have NO CHOICE but to enlist in the military. He did so out of his own free will, and you can't tell someone that choices they have made in life due to one circumstance or another are "a waste of time"...

I don't know if you are from the USA or not, but for some people here, it is the only way of making a living if you can't afford to go to College or can't find a decent paying job outside of the armed services.



@OP:
I salute you for your service, but unfortunately... You have a bit too much of Uncle Sam's agenda forced into your views. Wikileaks has done nothing wrong. People need to know the truth about what has REALLY happened in the war, not what the corporate media (controlled by the government) want's you to know.

[Melchoire]

and i'm sure you've been quite fantastic for your nation as well. if you don't have anything better waiting for you on the horizon, i can end you dragging the rest of your people down, they'd probably be better off without you.

And what exactly did you accomplish?

Most recently when Newfoundland got wrecked by that hurricane they were there helping out

I'd say it's mostly for the 'what if' factor but there are plenty of concrete examples

I mean in terms of wars and conflicts. More specifically the Iraq war, which is what most of the wikileak documents are concerned with, if I'm not mistaken.

[Ment0r]

And what exactly did you accomplish?

Can one not gain goals outside of the bigger picture? Are you implying that it is impossible to accomplish anything for one's self by being in the armed services?


Here's a list of what he could of accomplished, just off the top of my head:

1. Stabilizing his financial future
2. Earning massive self-respect
3. Learning the values of sacrificing a piece for the good of the whole
4. Leadership, Responsibility, Respect, and Loyalty... you learn / accomplish more in these areas within the Military then you do ANYWHERE in the world.



Seriously Melchoire, your troll has failed so just give up before you make yourself look like any worse of a human being.

[Melchoire]

Can one not gain goals outside of the bigger picture? Are you implying that it is impossible to accomplish anything for one's self by being in the armed services?


Here's a list of what he could of accomplished, just off the top of my head:

1. Stabilizing his financial future
2. Earning massive self-respect
3. Learning the values of sacrificing a piece for the good of the whole
4. Leadership, Responsibility, Respect, and Loyalty... you learn / accomplish more in these areas within the Military then you do ANYWHERE in the world.



Seriously Melchoire, your troll has failed so just give up before you make yourself look like any worse of a human being.

Well you're taking my comments too ambiguously. When I said "accomplish" I thought it was made pretty clear that I was responding to him saying " i joined the military to fight for my country". In that respect I think he didn't accomplish anything at all.

[Ment0r]

Well you're taking my comments too ambiguously. When I said "accomplish" I thought it was made pretty clear that I was responding to him saying " i joined the military to fight for my country". In that respect I think he didn't accomplish anything at all.

Ok we can throw big words around all day, but you just contradicted yourself. You made absolutely NOTHING clear. You said, "your time in the service was well wasted" and "what exactly did you accomplish?"... Implying that, he has accomplished nothing.

If you wanted to specify the areas in which he has had lack of accomplishment, you should of specified them. Otherwise, you are talking in a broad category on the subject of accomplishment.

[Melchoire]

Ok we can throw big words around all day, but you just contradicted yourself. You made absolutely NOTHING clear. You said, "your time in the service was well wasted" and "what exactly did you accomplish?"... Implying that, he has accomplished nothing.

If you wanted to specify the areas in which he has had lack of accomplishment, you should of specified them. Otherwise, you are talking in a broad category on the subject of accomplishment.

I thought we were all smart enough to figure it out...

[Mr. Hobo]

I mean in terms of wars and conflicts. More specifically the Iraq war, which is what most of the wikileak documents are concerned with, if I'm not mistaken.

Last I checked we weren't in Iraq
And northern Afghanistan has seen some pretty significant gains
And the current wikileak controversy has little to do with iraq

And if we're talking about Americans, what do you think would happen if they'd just dissolve their army? Or are you just against the Iraq war?

[Dichromate]

This again? There's a thread of this in every self-respecting forum, apparently.


Anyway : All I gotta said is, the army is just the meat on the puppets. The army's lives were always in danger, with or without Wikileaks. Even without their information (and to date I've never heard any mention of tide-turning, blasphemous information floating around) I'm pretty sure they know where to hit and who to bang. If you're in the army you're in danger. Mr. Osama and friends would know the road to your bases, even without them.

So what does adding Wikileaks into the equation accomplish? A boost in Google Afghanistan?

[Melchoire]

Last I checked we weren't in Iraq
And northern Afghanistan has seen some pretty significant gains
And the current wikileak controversy has little to do with iraq

And if we're talking about Americans, what do you think would happen if they'd just dissolve their army? Or are you just against the Iraq war?

Oh sorry, I was talking about US troops, I shoulda been more clear. That's a rather interesting question though. What would happen if the US army was dissolved? I couldn't say but yes I am completely against the iraq war.

[ToxicS]

well, we're damned if we stay and damned if we leave, so best thing would be to leave instead of paying billions of dollars to military contractors and getting oil to private companies in the process

oh wait, that's why we're in iraq in the first place...

[Mr. Hobo]

Oh sorry, I was talking about US troops, I shoulda been more clear. That's a rather interesting question though. What would happen if the US army was dissolved? I couldn't say but yes I am completely against the iraq war.

North Korea invades South Korea with the support of China

Nearby countries start panicking. Japan builds up army or gets wrecked by United Commie Korea

Terrorism increases because terrorists no longer on the defensive

America no longer global super power

China becomes new super power

Canada conquers Northern States?!?!

It's kinda hard to discuss theoreticals on something that won't happen

[Melchoire]

North Korea invades South Korea with the support of China

Nearby countries start panicking. Japan builds up army or gets wrecked by United Commie Korea

Terrorism increases because terrorists no longer on the defensive

America no longer global super power

China becomes new super power

Canada conquers Northern States?!?!

It's kinda hard to discuss theoreticals on something that won't happen

Yeh it's hard to predict. Would anyone come to America's aid? I don't think it's ever gonna happen though.... =P

[Mr. Hobo]

Yeh it's hard to predict. Would anyone come to America's aid? I don't think it's ever gonna happen though.... =P

Man maybe Canada would but we're kinda the dependent one in our relationship . The army is kind of like the foundation of America, remove it and the building till topple (if its even possible to remove a foundation while preserving the building on top )

[Noitidart]

Anyone in the service I appreciate what you putting yourself on the line. The stuff that the leaders make you I am not happy with at all. But I understand that you guys have no option other then to go or be court marshaled (right word?). I actually hate what the leaders are making you do.

I'm sure that's what mel and all of us are trying to say.

[Melchoire]

Anyone in the service I appreciate what you putting yourself on the line. The stuff that the leaders make you I am not happy with at all. But I understand that you guys have no option other then to go or be court marshaled (right word?). I actually hate what the leaders are making you do.

I'm sure that's what mel and all of us are trying to say.

I think anyone considering joining the army should think about the kind of things they're gonna be involved in and if what they're doing is actually helping anyone at all. I guess that's the nicest way I can put it.

[Noitidart]

That is a good point. I would never join the army right now. But those that joined earlier had no idea they would have to do this dirty work.

[Melchoire]

That is a good point. I would never join the army right now. But those that joined earlier had no idea they would have to do this dirty work.

Well, joining the army is a big decision. I would find out as much about the situation as possible before making a commitment.

[Bryan]

I guess that the easiest way to put this. Show me anyone that encounters physical harm because of Wikileaks and I might be inclined to agree with you. You haven't really given me any fact and I can sense that your post has a lot of emotion in it. If you want a discussion, it'd be better to link fact instead of opinions and 'I'd like to see you put your life on the line'. It really ends with nothing productive.

[Scot]

All the "leaks" so far are scandals of the military committing war crimes like gunning down civilians and pimping out children. ¹

Want Wikileaks to stop reporting?? Stop committing war crimes.
-------------------------
1.
http://blogs.houston...pany_helped.php
http://www.guardian....rmy-iraq-attack
http://www.telegraph...heckpoints.html

[ToxicS]

https://secure.avaaz...leaks_petition/

[Noitidart]

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/wikileaks_petition/

WOW! That thing is CRAZY! Signatures are coming in live by the second! Multiple a second!

[ToxicS]

Yeah, it's awesome. I wouldn't be surprised if it hit 1 million in a few days.

[iargue]

Phalkon, I made a post similar to yours in the other WikiLeaks topic and can empathize with you. I think there is a fine line on acceptable reporting and reporting classified information for no other purpose than to tell governments "Hey! We will expose you!" I'd be surprised if there isn't some ulterior motive or that wikileaks et al. aren't making demands to stop the release of information.

I cannot honestly say that I've read all of these cables in the recent release, or even many. From what I did gather, the main problems I have with this leak (Other than the fact that it's classified...) is that I haven't seen but maybe one or two cables that the people actually did need to know (from this recent release).

Although our troop positions over a year ago may not seem that important to some of you, you also must realize that these paths are commonly used multiple times. One of the biggest concerns I actually had was the naming of some of our operatives that are double agents to Al Queda. Naming these operatives not only seriously means death to them or their families, but it also will prevent future cooperation from people within these organizations to help bring them down.

It's 6AM and I am sooo sick of arguing about wikileaks irl, that I doubt I'll argue it further here. Just wanted you to know that you aren't alone in your feelings about this matter, Phalkon. I think primarily, we need to address the ability of someone to gain so much material without the need and punish PFC Bradley accordingly.

Cheers and lots of love to the men and women in the armed forces.

Please link me to a document stating where we will be moving our troops to, and I might agree with you. These documents are about things that happened in the past. NO ONE FUCKING GETS NAMED. I'm sick of this excuse being played over and over and over.

No one gets named. No one gets named. No one gets named. None of the documents name, or will name a secret agent. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THESE DOCUMENTS ARE REDACTED? Go and read them. They have parts missing. Parts that may or may not endanger troops. Thats to protect them. But releasing a video of an helicopter shooting civilians only endangers the people who ordered the attack.

If Wikileaks doesn't release these documents. They will never be released. Not in 20 years. Not in 50 years. Not in 100 years. Not in the next million years. You should probably know that I am 100% patriotic and against treason, but I am for this. Because the government isn't transparent. Obama said, "I will be transparent", so where is this transparency? How come no one ever reported on the Helicopter that killed citizens. Where was the media then? The media has failed us at their one job. Holding the government accountable. Now Wikileaks is doing that. So fuck you and your defense of stopping them. Either they keep going, or the Government starts being honest.