147 replies to this topic

[Mishatu]

I'm of the belief that early training in areas breeds respect. One of the European countries (I think it's Norway?) has lax gun laws, but because everyone's pretty much raised around them, there's pretty much no issue.

Same with alcohol in France. I've never heard of the French having drunk driving issues or other such things, and they have their kids drink wine at young ages (diluted, I'm sure. but wine nonetheless)

[Yung]

It's not my home but I still have the utmost sense of community, this is where I live, this is where I work, this is where my friends are, this is where my family is, and this is where my women come from. I just fail to see any stereotypical rednecks and hillbillies roaming around though I am sure that has more to do with where I live than not.

I'm of the belief that early training in areas breeds respect. One of the European countries (I think it's Norway?) has lax gun laws, but because everyone's pretty much raised around them, there's pretty much no issue.

Same with alcohol in France. I've never heard of the French having drunk driving issues or other such things, and they have their kids drink wine at young ages (diluted, I'm sure. but wine nonetheless)

The same could be said for households that allow profanity being used by young children.

[Steve]

Basically, "Good Ole' Boy Justice" if I understand what you're saying correctly. There is a lot of that here still where I live currently in Missouri, I've seen posse's form up to go after guys for raping girls, beating their wives/old ladies, ect...

Precisely what I'm talking about. It's the only real thing you can do to these guys to show them there are severe consequences. Police are limited in that kind of situation unfortunately, which is why they'll allow citizens to take it into their own hands, to a certain extent.

[Yung]

Precisely what I'm talking about. It's the only real thing you can do to these guys to show them there are severe consequences. Police are limited in that kind of situation unfortunately, which is why they'll allow citizens to take it into their own hands, to a certain extent.

Our County Boys will get right in with everyone else so long as they are off duty. They really really stress the 'off duty' part around here. I am guessing most of our sheriff deputies just do fuck all whenever they aren't in uniform.

[Sage]

It's not my home but I still have the utmost sense of community, this is where I live, this is where I work, this is where my friends are, this is where my family is, and this is where my women come from. I just fail to see any stereotypical rednecks and hillbillies roaming around though I am sure that has more to do with where I live than not.

As a displaced-at-the-moment native, trust me, they're there. You just have to head more toward the border to find 'em, usually. I don't remember any full-bore hillbillies, but I've met some hick loonies before.

I'm of the belief that early training in areas breeds respect. One of the European countries (I think it's Norway?) has lax gun laws, but because everyone's pretty much raised around them, there's pretty much no issue.

Same with alcohol in France. I've never heard of the French having drunk driving issues or other such things, and they have their kids drink wine at young ages (diluted, I'm sure. but wine nonetheless)

I actually remember reading somewhere that the statistics for european countries in general where wine is introduced to kids at a young age had fewer instances of drinking to get drunk, and so fewer drunk driving incidents (or other drink-induced unfortunate things).

[Yung]

As a displaced-at-the-moment native, trust me, they're there. You just have to head more toward the border to find 'em, usually. I don't remember any full-bore hillbillies, but I've met some hick loonies before.

I live just north of Branson, I know virtually everyone in the 2,400 pop. town I live by. Trust me, the few who are around here are just tweakers... kinda branches them into a new kind of stupid.

[Nymh]

I live in the South and I have a very negative view towards certain types of people that love guns, collect them, etc. simply because most people around here that do so are uneducated moronic rednecks who carry dead deers around on their cars and cling to their religion. I admit I'm probably prejudice against people who own guns.

I wonder if your head would explode if you found out that I am from Tennessee and I own more than one gun ~~♥

tl;dr

I always thought that guns weren't really necessary - all situations can be negotiated out of.

I love it when you say things like this, it reminds me of how young and sheltered you are

Seriously though, this isn't a very strong argument, your first paragraph alone needs to be picked apart for further examination. What data are you using to support "its a proven fact that men are less hesitant to act," while though your statement is likely to be true you can't state something like that without a PHd.

Really? No one caught this? I lol'ed

And Kite... Sigh. Read carefully: Previous reactions to ugly situations do not really mean anything in relation to future reactions to completely different situations. Although you do have one or two decent points--if an attacker is close enough to rape you, he's probably too close to use a gun on effectively (better off going for the eyes with whatever you've got handy at that point)--the rest is macho bullshit extrapolation.

I completely agree with cuddlydemon. I don't really care who has guns if it doesn't affect me. I like hunting, I like shooting, but I don't think that possessing a gun means that I am better capable to defend myself if someone pins me to my bed to rape me. That gun in my closet is not gonna help me in that situation.

[Sage]

I live just north of Branson, I know virtually everyone in the 2,400 pop. town I live by. Trust me, the few who are around here are just tweakers... kinda branches them into a new kind of stupid.

Arrrgh, you live in tourist town. I'm so sorry. XD I was about thirty miles out of St. Louis in Arnold.

I don't really care who has guns if it doesn't affect me. I like hunting, I like shooting, but I don't think that possessing a gun means that I am better capable to defend myself if someone pins me to my bed to rape me. That gun in my closet is not gonna help me in that situation.

I said earlier that my only issue with gun ownership is how little training people usually have with them; I don't really care who owns one, as long as you know how and when to use them. I wasn't attempting to riff on you, if that's the impression I gave, I apologize.

[Yung]

Arrrgh, you live in tourist town. I'm so sorry. XD I was about thirty miles out of St. Louis in Arnold.

No not at all, I work there but I do NOT live there. Lol. I would shoot myself if I did, no pun intended.

[Nymh]

I said earlier that my only issue with gun ownership is how little training people usually have with them; I don't really care who owns one, as long as you know how and when to use them. I wasn't attempting to riff on you, if that's the impression I gave, I apologize.

No bb I was agreeing with you I just forgot to actually include the part where I mentioned that

[Sage]

No bb I was agreeing with you I just forgot to actually include the part where I mentioned that

Aha! Keen, then. Continuing on: I really want to take up shooting as a pastime. I have my heart set on owning a certain shotgun but I refuse to even save for it till I've had proper lessons. Marksmanship runs in my family and I want at least one skill that will keep me alive in the event of an apocalypse, zombie or not.

[Yung]

Right, I agree with you guys. I was taught to use guns early and I was taught how dangerous they are. My family believes that the best way to teach you this lesson is to teach you to shoot, then have you shoot a pet that you are close to. A cruel way in my opinion to learn the lesson but it's one that sticks. I've never "accidentally" discharged a firearm, if I have a gun and I squeeze the trigger it is a very intentional thing. Most the people I know that own guns actually know how to use them and actively waste ammo practicing to make sure that they can do so.

[Sage]

Right, I agree with you guys. I was taught to use guns early and I was taught how dangerous they are. My family believes that the best way to teach you this lesson is to teach you to shoot, then have you shoot a pet that you are close to. A cruel way in my opinion to learn the lesson but it's one that sticks. I've never "accidentally" discharged a firearm, if I have a gun and I squeeze the trigger it is a very intentional thing. Most the people I know that own guns actually know how to use them and actively waste ammo practicing to make sure that they can do so.

D: I hope to god you mean when the pet is old/suffering and needs to be put down.

Edited by cuddlydemon, 14 May 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[Yung]

D: I hope to god you mean when the pet is old/suffering and needs to be put down.

It's not as bad when that's the case. My animal was one of my game cocks that I raised. I had helped that particular one hatch as he had a malformed beak and shouldn't have made it.

It really depends on the circumstance. Most of my cousins and I have stopped this tradition as we think it is too cruel of a way to teach gun responsibility regardless of how effective a method it has proven to be.

[Sage]

It's not as bad when that's the case. My animal was one of my game cocks that I raised. I had helped that particular one hatch as he had a malformed beak and shouldn't have made it.

It really depends on the circumstance. Most of my cousins and I have stopped this tradition as we think it is too cruel of a way to teach gun responsibility regardless of how effective a method it has proven to be.

Oh. Animals that can then be eaten I'm a little less freaked out by (even though I know people still consider various food animals pets sometimes, and I'm sorry you had to kill it). I thought you meant emulating Ol' Yeller without the rabies or something. It's pretty damn cruel for both the pet and the owner to do that to teach responsibility (and I'd argue that if you're willing to do it when asked, you are already pretty damn responsible).

[Yung]

Oh. Animals that can then be eaten I'm a little less freaked out by (even though I know people still consider various food animals pets sometimes, and I'm sorry you had to kill it). I thought you meant emulating Ol' Yeller without the rabies or something. It's pretty damn cruel for both the pet and the owner to do that to teach responsibility (and I'd argue that if you're willing to do it when asked, you are already pretty damn responsible).

My siblings and cousins have both had their own experiences of similar situations and I've put plenty of family pets down for various reasons since my own trial occurred but it wasn't without reason. Killing livestock or other pets is a primary reason, secondary (only because it is a rarer occurrence) would be things such turning on one of us.

[Sage]

My siblings and cousins have both had their own experiences of similar situations and I've put plenty of family pets down for various reasons since my own trial occurred but it wasn't without reason. Killing livestock or other pets is a primary reason, secondary (only because it is a rarer occurrence) would be things such turning on one of us.

Okay. More farm life than "animals are target practice and food only." I almost had a frickin' heart attack, man.

[Yung]

Okay. More farm life than "animals are target practice and food only." I almost had a frickin' heart attack, man.

Lol, more or less.

[Maggiemouse]

I think guns are useful. I feel safe with a gun in the house, knowing that if anything were to happen I could protect myself.

I am tiny, I'm only 4'10 and I'm not a great fighter. Also my neighborhood is pretty bad, bad enough that I don't go outside much unless I'm with my fiance.
Plus I feel the need to be prepared for the zombie apocalypse.

[IcedEarth]

I'm glad guns are illegal in UK. I watched a documentary about gun crime in London and there was this guy saying it's so easy for young people to get guns. He was like he could go around the corner and get one now. They were also talking about 12 year old with mach 10s. I don't know if that's true or not but if it is that's fucked up.

I think if it was legal, it would increase gun crime. So yeah glad it's not!

[IcedEarth]

Legal or not, if someone wants a gun then they will get one.
My little brother is currently half way through an 8 year sentence for 25 armed robberies, GTA, and having a firearm.

Yeah that's true. I just think if they were legal here in the UK, it'll make it easier to get hold of one.

[Waser Lave]

Of course it would be easier to get one if they legalized it, everyone who wanted one could apply for a permit.

There is also some kind of legality regarding certain firearms under certain conditions in the UK.
So it's entirely possible to get one regardless of if you are the person on the license.

Say you own a shotgun and you live on a farm. Someone breaks into your farmhouse and steals your shotgun. You report it to the police. Your gun may never be recovered and stays in the hands of criminals, being passed between them in trades. You buy another shotgun to replace the old one and a few years later the same happens again. That makes two taken out of your possession and being used for unscrupulous means.

Like I said, if it's wanted. It will be gained one way or another.

There's a big difference between the possibility of a few legal shotguns being stolen from legally registered owners in the UK and the hundreds of millions of guns available in America. In reality there are very few guns available to non-registered people in the UK relatively and that's why they have to resort to doing things like converting starter pistols which you see every so often in the news. Statistics such as those on murders by firearms per capita are evidence of that disparity.

[Frizzle]

I never understood Americans and their fascination with guns. It must be due to the low intellect and high emotional values of gun owners that seems to be wide spread.

How was the argument "How do we tackle gun crime?" ever answered with "More guns". The fact that the average joe with no official training, requirements, prerequisites and basic background checks can carry something that could wipe 5 families in one clip be a smart decision?

Guns need to be taken out of circulation and re-registered with the authorities. If you aren't army or police you don't need a gun. It's simple. You get robbed, you let it happen. If you believe getting into a gun fight is worth it for possessions, that let's be frank, aren't going to be worth more than a couple of K you'll probably not smart enough to own a gun anyway.

Before anyone brings up the argument "well what if I get raped?", stranger rape has such a minute percentage of overall rape that it isn't worth justifying give over 300 million people guns. You're more likely to be raped by your husband or boyfriend. Don't use needless emotional drama justify giving lethal weapons to idiots.

Hell, I've dealt with people who have forced knives, bricks, metal clubs and even a baked potato whilst trying to hurt me. I've walked around the unsafest areas in London with only a metal stick and a small tin of CS spray and felt safe.

Guns are only useful for pointing out the idiots who let their emotions and anxiety rule their head. These are the kinds of people who do not deserve guns.

[Yung]

I never understood Americans and their fascination with guns. It must be due to the low intellect and high emotional values of gun owners that seems to be wide spread.

That seems rather harshly judgmental of Americans, just because there are some of us who fit the stereotypical roles doesn't mean that applies to most of us. The majority of people I have ever met have been intellectually compelling individuals and I've never lived or worked in a nicer area. Odds are the middle and higher class in America lack common sense that the lower class seems to have by necessity.

How was the argument "How do we tackle gun crime?" ever answered with "More guns". The fact that the average joe with no official training, requirements, prerequisites and basic background checks can carry something that could wipe 5 families in one clip be a smart decision?

I believe it was actually enforced by stricter gun laws in many states, but considering most average Joe's that don't meet those prerequisites restrain from going on killing sprees as a daily routine should be evidence of the fact that just because the ability exists to carry out malicious acts doesn't mean that it does happen. We have extreme situations obviously but columbine situations happen rarely.

Guns need to be taken out of circulation and re-registered with the authorities. If you aren't army or police you don't need a gun. It's simple. You get robbed, you let it happen. If you believe getting into a gun fight is worth it for possessions, that let's be frank, aren't going to be worth more than a couple of K you'll probably not smart enough to own a gun anyway.

I don't think this is necessary in the least, I prefer my own anonymity involved with not having to have mine registered. Again, as stated earlier, I'm not reckless with my ownership and handling nor are others that I know who own guns.

Before anyone brings up the argument "well what if I get raped?", stranger rape has such a minute percentage of overall rape that it isn't worth justifying give over 300 million people guns. You're more likely to be raped by your husband or boyfriend. Don't use needless emotional drama justify giving lethal weapons to idiots.

Statistically speaking yes, this is often when people are killed and the term was coined called 'Love Crime' which states that the individual is emotionally psychotic when either raped or when catching a lover being unfaithful. I wouldn't say it's causing needless emotional drama by allowing women or men to be more secure, even if only psychologically more secure.

Hell, I've dealt with people who have forced knives, bricks, metal clubs and even a baked potato whilst trying to hurt me. I've walked around the unsafest areas in London with only a metal stick and a small tin of CS spray and felt safe.

That's often all you need, most people who carry guns wouldn't actually use them. That goes for law enforcement as well, I've seen several officers freeze up in situations that they shouldn't have due to the circumstances happening.

Guns are only useful for pointing out the idiots who let their emotions and anxiety rule their head. These are the kinds of people who do not deserve guns.

I'll agree that these kinds of people shouldn't have guns but what would be a good way to screen for that? To the best of my knowledge no such screening exists.

[ToxicS]

Just throwing this in here, 47% of americans do own a gun

http://www.gallup.co...ghest-1993.aspx

Also.. considering that there could be an economic collapse and a great depression, it might be handy to have a gun just in case all hell breaks loose.

Edited by ToxicS, 14 May 2012 - 08:57 PM.