241 replies to this topic

[Tetiel]

I just read the entire topic (you know, just to catch up). And I think same-sex marriages should be allowed.

BTW, a few interesting quotes from bible:

http://en.wikipedia....id_and_Jonathan

You do realize that that is horribly taken out of context, right? What he's talking about is the love of friendship. What I would personally like to know is which Hebrew word they used for love. English has one word however Hebrew has three. Dode is sexual love, Ahaba is the love that burns like a fire between married couples, and then there is the love of a friend or family member and I cannot remember the word for that. Most likely he used the love of a friend but people wish to take it further.

[redlion]

Well, Alias, if you want a good reason as to why God would allow his word to become corrupted, maybe you need to go back and read Job.

God made all sorts of horrible things to happen to Job to prove a point to Satan. Sure, he gave Job back everything he lost threefold, but can you really give back lost wives and children? No.

God told Abraham to kill Isaac, to test Abraham.

Perhaps the corruption of the Bible is the test on the hearts of Man. Who will, intuitively, be true to God, and who will fall short of expectations.

Let us not forget the contradictions of the Bible (all quotes are KJV)...
---Do not kill, or at least, don't kill innocents...and yet, look what God commands...
---And let us not forget, when God actually kills innocents, himself.

Remember the mass genocide of the Egyptians? There were children specifically targetted, not to mention all those innocents (women and children) who died by proxy of the other horrid disasters that God laid down upon Egypt.

And then there is the lying. God does command Samuel to lie (1 Samuel 16:2), and furthermore, there's the Proverbs...
=P

God is not a very nice person, by his own standards.

I thought I gave you a good reason for this, before!

http://www.geocities.../Leviticus.html

So basically, Anti-Gays have no response to these posts? Or at least, I haven't seen any. Just wondering, as its been over two months and there has been no response to two valid contentions.

[Tetiel]

So basically, Anti-Gays have no response to these posts? Or at least, I haven't seen any. Just wondering, as its been over two months and there has been no response to two valid contentions.

Hehe, nope. Since I agree and am not anti-gay. God isn't a very nice person and he doesn't pretend to be either. People just try to make him look like and grandpa and santa clause. If God is how the bible says he is he is absolutely terrifying.

[Ashaide]

My step brother (who I love dearly) is Gay. he met Darren 6 years ago now and they are very happy together. I have no problem with same sex marriage because everyone deserves to be happy.

They in fact had a civil ceremony last month and it went very well, although I could not be there.

Just because you are a male with another male, female with another female, does not mean you cannot be happy.

I am all for it..

[Ives]

Though I don't really believe in a god, nor anything (but I'm not an atheist, I'm more of a nontheist/nonreligious/agnostic), I do believe I want to leave this world at least an extremely tiny bit better. If I bothered to believe in anything at all, this would be my take on God:

God is a burden and a blessing. He gave us life to trial us, and he is not afraid to go out of his way to be a hypocrite in order to test us. However, if people "submit" or give into God, and please him, he will award with the ultimate bliss (which is something you can't reach while you're alive.) However, if you allow your sins to outweigh your good, he will send you to the fires where you will be treated with utmost torture (which is something you can't reach while you're alive, either.)

Anyways, I found a very, very interesting claim from someone who suggested homosexuality is like anorexia, and that it isn't something that is a choice, but can be overcame. I love how some of these fundamentalists believe that theres some huge "fag agenda" that gays and the liberal media are using in order to promote their lifestlye and convert people or whatever bullshit.

[redlion]

If you're Anti-Gay, you are "Taking away rights", "Not being fair", "Ignorant", "No-life", "Religious whore", should I go on? I can at least bring up 20 things I have been called because i'm not for homosexuality. I persecute gays everyday. All I think about 24/7 is how wrong homosexuality is. This is what people make of people against it. Why? Because they like it, they want it, they need it, and god forbid somebody should get in their way, and they just make hell out of it, like we see here.

That's just what I have collected over multiple debates/arguments.

And yet, we still fail to see a response to valid points by the chief Anti-Gay advocate on the site

[Typhoon]

So what's wrong with homosexuality then, not the act of marriage between two same sex people but the general thing. Why is it wrong for two guys or two girls to be in love and get together?

Or are you just a general bigot?

[113]

You do realize that that is horribly taken out of context, right? What he's talking about is the love of friendship. What I would personally like to know is which Hebrew word they used for love. English has one word however Hebrew has three. Dode is sexual love, Ahaba is the love that burns like a fire between married couples, and then there is the love of a friend or family member and I cannot remember the word for that. Most likely he used the love of a friend but people wish to take it further.

Yes, I do realize it was taken out of contex. But I used it to show, that different readers of the Bible, might interpret it in different ways. But that is why I don't think we should pass laws based on the word of the Bible.

And again taken out of context (but further proving my point): http://www.parentalg...list_part_6.htm

Can any of you really say you were never ANXIOUS, CONDEMNING or a PROUD SPEEKER?

For Alias:
OH, and if you didn't know, we (as in humans) aren't the only species that can be homosexsual:
http://www.sfgate.co...MNG3N4RAV41.DTL
http://www.washingto...anguage=printer
http://en.wikipedia....sexual_behavior (There are currently 478 different species on this list.)

As you can probably see, being gay has very little to do with choice. (http://www.outfront.org/library/fact.html)

Oh, Google how I love thee

Edited by 113, 26 July 2006 - 12:10 AM.

[113]

Oh, now you're comparing us to animals, that's wonderful. I'm just trying to figure out where I said humans are not capable of being homosexual o_0 Anything can be homosexual if it desires too.

Oh, but we are animals. Look:
Regnum: Animalia (Metazoa)
Subregnum: Eumetazoa
Superphylum: Bilateria: Deuterostomia
Phylum: Chordata
Subphylum: Vertebrata
Classis: Mammalia
Subclassis: Theria
Infraclassis: Placentalia
Ordo: Primates
Subordo: Haplorrhini (template)
Infraordo: Simiiformes (template)
Taxon: Catarrhini (template)
Superfamilia: Hominoidea (template)
Familia: Hominidae (template)
Subfamilia: Homininae (template)
Genus: Homo (template)
Species: Homo sapiens
Subspecies: Homo sapiens sapiens

And animal behaviour is usually ruled on instinct (and yes even humans still depend on instincts, although that is a subject of another (heated) debate).

[113]

Well i'm done here. There is a reason I am not coming back to this debate

Now just wait a second, how did I managed to offend you by posting an species classification of human.

Edited by 113, 26 July 2006 - 12:50 AM.

[Ives]

Oh, now you're comparing us to animals, that's wonderful. I'm just trying to figure out where I said humans are not capable of being homosexual o_0 Anything can be homosexual if it desires too.

That is where your argument gets flamed alot. Homosexuality is not a desire or something that people choose on their own. It isn't genetic, it's just how the brain grows. Yes, anyone can bark a chick, paper bag or no, but that would result in lying. There are cases of people who have gotten out of homosexuality; this is because it can be a phase of mindset for some people, and something for life for others. There is no hidden agenda of gays, no plan to make more people gay, and no grounds which make a union between two men and two women inferior than a man and woman, with the exception of the fact they cannot have children together, so the love is a lot more romantic.

Anyways, if you seek to know why you get called "bigot, moron, etc." is because of the fact your arguments seem to emphasise your thought on the matter a lot more. When you throw in things such as "I would make fun of a kid who has two dads," it doesn't help. That's just what I've heard.

[Inside Of You]

I'm not going to get involved with the whole Alias thing, because even though I think he's wrong, he still does have a right to his opinion.

I will say, however, the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard (I was told this is person too) is that gays recruit. The flaming ones might for attention but for the most part, gays don't recruit straights. XD

I'm not going around school offering bags of candy for those who sign up within 24 hours to be gay. Lol.

[/Max]

Well i'm done here. There is a reason I am not coming back to this debate

Ahhh! Science and truth! It burrrnnnnsss!



At least that's what I got out of that post.


""

[Harley]

I really agree with Same gender marradges,I would like to get married and not run away from the government. I dont see why people should judge. I mean guys like Women on women. But whenever two men do the same thing. They are totally disgusted and want to "Gay bash" and dont think its the same as when two women get together.
Raui was here.

Edited by Turkey, 01 August 2006 - 09:22 PM.

[Cript]

Hmm, I just find it odd to call it marriage when a it's not female/male union. That's just a personal thing though. I think they should be able to recieve the same treatment as anyone else.

Also, the Bible never necessarily condemns homosexuality, there were a few mistranslations and things there. I have my own theory on that, but the Bible definately says that love is love, period.

I'd definitely beg to differ about the bible not condemning homosexuality.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

[sonic]

I'd definitely beg to differ about the bible not condemning homosexuality.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

[/Max]

Are you saying spewing quotes from a fairy tale book are considered 'owning' somebody in a debate?

[Zeeky]

Of course they should be legal. If two people are in love, who the hell cares what gender they are. For God's sake, it has no real effect on you, and if it means a lot to them, so be it. Anybody who disagrees has some issues to sort out.

[Ives]

I guess what people suggest about condemning homosexuality is that the bible doesn't condemn homosexuals. I hear so many people say it isn't a sin in the bible, yet there are so many verses which even put homosexuals and pedophiles in the same group as people who act upon sinful nature.

[sonic]

Are you saying spewing quotes from a fairy tale book are considered 'owning' somebody in a debate?

At times like this I wonder if people like this are dumb on purpose?
Read the begining of the quote.

I'd definitely beg to differ about the bible not condemning homosexuality.

He was a saying that the "fairy tail book" condems homosexuality.
So yes, citing direct quotes from this "fairy tail book" would be the best way to prove his point.

Now I say you just got owned M-Xite

[Cript]

Are you saying spewing quotes from a fairy tale book are considered 'owning' somebody in a debate?

I consider you being owned if you can't debate my beliefs without berating them.

[amyjia]

I'd definitely beg to differ about the bible not condemning homosexuality.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Jeepers.. this this discussion is soo familiar.. About those scriptures, people really need to put them into context. People can quote a few lines of the Bible and condemn anyone they want. I went into detail about this more in another topic in the debating section, so anyone can look it up if they want.

One thing I want to point out, which is like totally off topic, but..

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Effeminate? Like "Metrosexuals"? lol Guess it doesn't pay to be a well groomed, proper guy?

Edited by amyjia, 01 August 2006 - 07:36 PM.

[Cript]

Jeepers.. this this discussion is soo familiar.. About those scriptures, people really need to put them into context. People can quote a few lines of the Bible and condemn anyone they want. I went into detail about this more in another topic in the debating section, so anyone can look it up if they want.

One thing I want to point out, which is like totally off topic, but..
Effeminate? Like "Metrosexuals"? lol Guess it doesn't pay to be a well groomed, proper guy?

First off...it's almost impossible to take Leviticus out of context...it was a book full of laws, it's that's simple. The translation only gets lost when people try to pick and choose which ones to which they wish to adhere.

Secondly, effeminate can also mean self-indulgent...however; using your definition we have to consider that God has always commanded a man to be a man, to be in charge of the family and to be a leader...being effeminate causes problems with that.

[amyjia]

First off...it's almost impossible to take Leviticus out of context...it was a book full of laws, it's that's simple. The translation only gets lost when people try to pick and choose which ones to which they wish to adhere.

Yes, I agree that people do try to pick and choose what and what not to adhere to in Leviticus. People love to hold on to the verse about homosexuals, but seem to forget about other verses like...

"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)

aka killing children who are disrespectful to parents.

"If a man lies with a woman during her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has discovered her flow, and she has uncovered the flow of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from her people." (Leviticus 20:18)

aka disowning and/or deporting people who have sex while a woman is having her period.

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)

aka The scripture people used to defend slavery and a scripture people use to defend racism.

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

aka shaving and hair cuts a no no.

"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)

aka Not supposed to eat pork.

"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

aka.. your not supposed to have two kinds of crops in one field (Which farmers often do for ecological reasons) and your not supposed to bended materials. So throw away those cotton/ polyster bends

"But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you. They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination.Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:10-12)

aka Eating Lobster, Shrimp, or anything in the ocean without a fin and scales in a ABOMINATION

Now, as I was saying, people take these laws out of context. They were not meant for us today. They were for Moses and the Isrealites leaving from Egypt. They were the laws of the Land. God said that he wanted the people to obey the laws of the land and HIS COMANDMENTS. Through history, the laws of the land(United States, etc) have changed and are still changing, but God's commandments haven't changed. God's commandments said NOTHING about homosexuality.

Secondly, effeminate can also mean self-indulgent...however; using your definition we have to consider that God has always commanded a man to be a man, to be in charge of the family and to be a leader...being effeminate causes problems with that.

Self Indulgent? So pampering yourself and caring about your appearance makes you unable to be a leader?

Edited by amyjia, 01 August 2006 - 08:30 PM.

[sonic]

Self Indulgent? So pampering yourself and caring about your appearance makes you unable to be a leader?

Think about the time most of the bible was written.
Were there Wills and Jacks? (from will and grace)
You are over analizing it.