59 replies to this topic

[Shippo]

... Weird.

Maybe you'd be all DragonBall Z like and leave a bunch of mysteriously moving black lines from where you started running.


I gave it a good hard thought. Best I could come up with o.o;

[Cataliste]

Its called a mouse-move event

About your theory. I remember my cousin saying that einstein said that if you travelled faster than light your mass would be infinte. I dunno if he was speaking truth or just some joke off the bottle of beer he was drinking.

just my two cents

Your cousin would be correct.

[Melchoire]

Thats right remember E=mc² well that simply summarizes that mass depends on your speed. So if a train was to use coal to build up a speed of 186,000 m(iles)ps at that point anymore feul(energy) added would instead increase it's mass it wouldn't increase it's speed.

But ignoring that theory of relativity your idea could work

[ArchAngel.]

You're talking about becoming invisible right?
Well to do that, you don't have to travel at the speed of light, or even near it. You just have to travel at a speed fast enough that the eye wouldn't be able to recognize your movement, meaning in order to be "invisible" you would have to travel at a speed that moves across the viewspan of person in less than 1/16 of a second. Then, you'd appear to be invisible.
Another way would be moving at a speed faster than light, where you would be able to avoid light. If no light bounces off of your body, then nobody would be able to see you, but that isn't going to happen, now is it?

[redlion]

You're talking about becoming invisible right?
Well to do that, you don't have to travel at the speed of light, or even near it. You just have to travel at a speed fast enough that the eye wouldn't be able to recognize your movement, meaning in order to be "invisible" you would have to travel at a speed that moves across the viewspan of person in less than 1/16 of a second. Then, you'd appear to be invisible.
Another way would be moving at a speed faster than light, where you would be able to avoid light. If no light bounces off of your body, then nobody would be able to see you, but that isn't going to happen, now is it?

Oooh, I never thought about those. The first actually makes sense.

I know that humans can't actually see a single frame out of twenty four during movies, but the image is still captured residually and can later be referenced (via dreams, etc.). They did that in the original Exorcist. Every once in a while they'd sneak a single frame of a picture of a dead baby or something. You wouldn't see it while you were watching the movie, but your mind would capture it and would 'reissue' it, so to speak, in your dreams. That was the real reason it was so freaking creepy.

So all I'd have to do is move at a speed fast enough that humans can't see, not actually break the speed of light.

[ArchAngel.]

Well no...
That wouldn't work, because the direction you're running is everything. The longer you're in their range of sight, the faster you have to move in order to get through in under 1/16 of a second. So if you ran straight at a person from a mile away, you would have to run that mile in less than 1/16 of a second plus a little more to get behind that person. If you ran straight from the side of a person to the other side, it would be a lot easier to do.

[sonic]

Well no...
That wouldn't work, because the direction you're running is everything. The longer you're in their range of sight, the faster you have to move in order to get through in under 1/16 of a second. So if you ran straight at a person from a mile away, you would have to run that mile in less than 1/16 of a second plus a little more to get behind that person. If you ran straight from the side of a person to the other side, it would be a lot easier to do.

Light does not behave this way, infact light has the same speed to eveyone no matter what speed or diredction. (Infact direction is nothing. To say an object is moving in one direction is pointless becasuse motion is relative.)

For my input on cloaking, there has been one idea from someone (on this topic, sorry to lazy to check) said that if you could bend light away from you, you would be invisable. To a degree this already happens. If you look at the sun (in an eclipse) the light from the stars are in an off direction. This is because the gravity caused by the huge mass of the sun "bends" light. Now your mass would have to be GIGANTIC to bend something with the speed that light travels (186,000 miles per second, 300,000 kilometers per second).

In theory, assuming that you can move faster than light (which has been already stated as possible) you could become invisible. Then again, what happens when you try to slow down?

Actually your COMPLETLY wrong. It is NOT possible to accelerate PAST the speed of light with todays physics. Now the SPECIAL theory of relativty leaves room for objects to go faster than the speed of light that are already going faster that 186,000 miles per second. Now if you were going faster than the speed of light you could not slow down.

Thats right remember E=mc² well that simply summarizes that mass depends on your speed. So if a train was to use coal to build up a speed of 186,000 m(iles)ps at that point anymore feul(energy) added would instead increase it's mass it wouldn't increase it's speed.

But ignoring that theory of relativity your idea could work

Don't think for one second the thoery of relativty is wrong. Granted for a complete unified thoery it would have to be altered, but it is the only law of physics holding things together. e=mc2 is wrong? Then our WHOLE perception on how the universe works is wrong.

[Christopher Robin]

if we could get missiles the speed of light, then noone would see it coming!

[ArchAngel.]

Light does not behave this way, infact light has the same speed to eveyone no matter what speed or diredction. (Infact direction is nothing. To say an object is moving in one direction is pointless becasuse motion is relative.)

That's not what I was saying... The behavior of light does not matter in my first theory. My theory was moving through the line of sight of a person, before their eyes would be able to register your ever being there. The human eye captures a frame every 1/16th of a second. My theory is if you pass through the person's line of sight in less than 1/16th of a second, assuming that they captured a frame right before you ran through, then they would not see you at all.

For my input on cloaking, there has been one idea from someone (on this topic, sorry to lazy to check) said that if you could bend light away from you, you would be invisable. To a degree this already happens. If you look at the sun (in an eclipse) the light from the stars are in an off direction. This is because the gravity caused by the huge mass of the sun "bends" light. Now your mass would have to be GIGANTIC to bend something with the speed that light travels (186,000 miles per second, 300,000 kilometers per second).

Actually, your mass does not have to be big, not big at all. You just need more force than light has. Look at a black hole, it has no mass, yet it is able to bend light from the direction it's going and capture it.
Btw... Bending light away from you isn't going to make you invisible. It is going to make you black. In the absence of light, the human eye registers it as black, even though that is a form of light. Theoretically, if there was no light bouncing off an object, but there was light everywhere else, the human eye would see it as a black area. When there is no light, there is darkness (the absence of light). Since the eye registers the lack of light as darkness, then bending light before it reaches you only makes your entire body seem like a black solid substance in the middle of the room. Bending light wouldn't make you invisible to the human eye.

Actually your COMPLETLY wrong. It is NOT possible to accelerate PAST the speed of light with todays physics. Now the SPECIAL theory of relativty leaves room for objects to go faster than the speed of light that are already going faster that 186,000 miles per second. Now if you were going faster than the speed of light you could not slow down.
Don't think for one second the thoery of relativty is wrong. Granted for a complete unified thoery it would have to be altered, but it is the only law of physics holding things together. e=mc2 is wrong? Then our WHOLE perception on how the universe works is wrong.

We never said any of this was wrong. We said, lets just assume that all these theories are incorrect, would it be feasible to be invisible?

[sonic]

Actually, your mass does not have to be big, not big at all. You just need more force than light has. Look at a black hole, it has no mass, yet it is able to bend light from the direction it's going and capture it.
Btw... Bending light away from you isn't going to make you invisible.

Dude. lol Black holes DO have mass. INfact many "Massive" Black holes have the mass of a billion suns!

And Gravity bends light TWORDS you. Just like a black holes emense gravity bends light into the event Horizon.

Edited by Sonic, 27 June 2006 - 11:08 AM.

[ArchAngel.]

Lol. Sorry man. Not to be mean at all. But black holes do have mass. Infact most Massive black holes have the mass of a Billion suns!

Lol, thought i would fix that....

No... They don't... Not when during the instant when they are first formed. They gain that mass after absorbing all the matter nearby, but at first. They have none, but they still have the force to absorb light, because that is the first thing they absorb.

[sonic]

No... They don't... Not when during the instant when they are first formed. They gain that mass after absorbing all the matter nearby, but at first. They have none, but they still have the force to absorb light, because that is the first thing they absorb.

Dude. Im not trying to be mean, but how would something with no mass have gravity? Thats the driving force in a black holes sucking thingy. Look up an article...

Do you know how Black holes are formed? (well the traditional one, not the center of galaxy ones lol). Its from the colapse of a star. A star puts out energy to force back its pull of gravity. As the energy runs out, the gravity starts winning at an exponential rate, and thousands of tons per square inch black holes are formed. (only with super massive stars).

[ArchAngel.]

Dude. Im not trying to be mean, but how would something with no mass have gravity? Thats the driving force in a black holes sucking thingy. Look up an article...

Dude... Right there... I was talking about how you said massive black holes have the mass of billions of suns... That isn't even remotely possible... When the star first collapses into a black hole, all it has is the mass of that one sun in it's point of singularity, and that's it.
What I meant about it having no gravity was that it's gravity wasn't enough to bend light in any possible way before it collapsed. It had to form a point of singularity before it could bend light, and that couldn't be considered mass, because it's infinite. Srry if I didn't explain everything.
Btw... Light isn't captured into the event horizon, it's captured into the accretion disk.

[sonic]

Dude... Right there... I was talking about how you said massive black holes have the mass of billions of suns... That isn't even remotely possible... When the star first collapses into a black hole, all it has is the mass of that one sun in it's point of singularity, and that's it.
What I meant about it having no gravity was that it's gravity wasn't enough to bend light in any possible way before it collapsed. It had to form a point of singularity before it could bend light, and that couldn't be considered mass, because it's infinite. Srry if I didn't explain everything.
Btw... Light isn't captured into the event horizon, it's captured into the accretion disk.

lol you said and i quote "Black holes have no mass". This would mean black holes have no gravity. Meaning black holes suck nothing in. Meaning black holes are not really there....

And a black hole is NOT a singularity. A singularity is a point undefined by relativity. Meaning an area of infinite mass.

Edited by Sonic, 27 June 2006 - 11:45 AM.

[ArchAngel.]

Hmm... I see... Your a stickler. xD I'll make sure I don't assume anything of you then. I'll say everything in-depth... lol.

[sonic]

Hmm... I see... Your a stickler. xD I'll make sure I don't assume anything of you then. I'll say everything in-depth... lol.

Lol, sorry man. I hate to be like that lol.

Oh and another thing. Actually, the more a black hole sucks in, the less mass it has!
Thats actually a new discovery. Lol, thats because anti-particles escape.....
Lol I dont know enough about that subject to give any definite answeres. It has something to do with hiesenbergs uncertanty principle.

[ArchAngel.]

Really?
Interesting... Never heard of that, then again, I haven't looked anything like that up for a while. Wouldn't that mean a blackhole disappears over time? It loses mass, gravity weakens... But then again, there is the point of singularity, and that's infinite, but mass isn't infinite. O.o *confuzzled* xD

[sonic]

Really?
Interesting... Never heard of that, then again, I haven't looked anything like that up for a while. Wouldn't that mean a blackhole disappears over time? It loses mass, gravity weakens... But then again, there is the point of singularity, and that's infinite, but mass isn't infinite. O.o *confuzzled* xD

Thats the point. Black holes loose there mass. Bye bye gravity. And they dissapear over time. MEaning the milky way is history. and about 10x the current age of the universe.

[ArchAngel.]

That isn't possible though...
The singularity of a black hole is the point mass of infinite density and where space and time stop. Wouldn't that constantly supply the gravitational pull, and the continued existence of the black hole?

[sonic]

That isn't possible though...
The singularity of a black hole is the point mass of infinite density and where space and time stop. Wouldn't that constantly supply the gravitational pull, and the continued existence of the black hole?

Like I said. Its not a singularity. A singularity is a point of infinite MASS. And a black hole has measurable mass. Singularitys are not allowed, save begining and end.

[ArchAngel.]

Singularities are part of black holes...
The components of a black hole:
- Accretion Disk
- Event Horizon
- Singularity
- Polar Jets
O.o

[Cataliste]

I have to side with Prince on this one.

Singularity is point where everything is concentrated. And I believe you are using Special Relativity Sonic =P That means a singularity is infinite (mass) for you. If a concentrated singularity in a black hole had infinite mass, tha towuld mean evrything in the universe would be sucked in instantly (due to it haveing infinite gravity).

I don't want to get into this debate again. I am tired and need to fill out job applications.

[sonic]

I have to side with Prince on this one.

Singularity is point where everything is concentrated. And I believe you are using Special Relativity Sonic =P That means a singularity is infinite (mass) for you. If a concentrated singularity in a black hole had infinite mass, tha towuld mean evrything in the universe would be sucked in instantly (due to it haveing infinite gravity).

I don't want to get into this debate again. I am tired and need to fill out job applications.

Im with you.
Yea. Im thinking different terms. I'm not the expert on black holes. I only know what concersns Quatam physics and Relativity. I just focus on the black holes gravity and the force it has on nearby systems.

Oh and not instantly......lol nothing is "instant"

Edited by Sonic, 27 June 2006 - 08:39 PM.

[ArchAngel.]

So we all agree, that it's theoretically impossible for a black hole to disappear due to the fact that it has infinite mass.
Now... Back on to being invisible, anyone else have any bright ideas?

[sonic]

So we all agree, that it's theoretically impossible for a black hole to disappear due to the fact that it has infinite mass.
Now... Back on to being invisible, anyone else have any bright ideas?

Wait.....no. ITs doesnt have infinte mass..... then it would have infinte gravity.....bye bye universe.....

Ask Cata. He will tell yea. He knows his shit...