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Israel vs. Lebanon/Hezbollah and possibly Syria and Iran?


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#26 Hydrogen

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 09:44 PM

Well, once you consider the fact that most of the civilized world thinks of the Israeli Army as a terrorist organization, the viewpoint should probably be changed. Yes, its true that palestinians have caused problems in the past, and kidnapping a soldier isn't exactly the smartest move, but Israel hasn't done much to disarm the situation. Their current attack really just doesn't add up. Who the hell decided to do this one?

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I think those who believe that Israel truly is the victim, constantly being terrorized,are truly misguided and are only deluding themselves. Israel does 50% of the terrorizing :).

#27 RandomNameIgnoreIt

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 02:34 PM

Another update: Israel is currently in the process of attacking Baalbeck, Lebanon. They also recently attacked the airport in Beirut again. Additionally, they just bombed the Palestinian foreign ministry.

#28 redlion

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 02:39 PM

Could you link me a source on the palestinian ministry bit?

#29 Tetiel

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 02:44 PM

QUOTE(redlion @ Jul 16 2006, 03:39 PM) View Post

Could you link me a source on the palestinian ministry bit?

I don't think there's a link yet. It's on Live TV. It's on fox news right now. And NO I don't want any grief for watching fox news. It states facts, not just opinions.

Anyways... It's amazing... I'm not going to state my political beliefs right now... but I will say that Israel is amazing. I had learned about past wars but I had never experienced it. Hardly any country moves so quickly. They are just... amazing. No other word to describe it. I'm in awe how quickly everything is happening... they don't mess around.

#30 redlion

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 03:00 PM

QUOTE(Tetiel @ Jul 16 2006, 05:44 PM) View Post

I don't think there's a link yet. It's on Live TV. It's on fox news right now. And NO I don't want any grief for watching fox news. It states facts, not just opinions.

Anyways... It's amazing... I'm not going to state my political beliefs right now... but I will say that Israel is amazing. I had learned about past wars but I had never experienced it. Hardly any country moves so quickly. They are just... amazing. No other word to describe it. I'm in awe how quickly everything is happening... they don't mess around.

Well of course. They're the last bastion of the Jewish faith; they can't mess around. (kidding)

Anyway, you didn't read about the Six-Day War? Hold on, I'll link. http://en.wikipedia....iki/Six-Day_War. Fascinating stuff.

#31 Tetiel

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE(redlion @ Jul 16 2006, 03:00 PM) View Post

Well of course. They're the last bastion of the Jewish faith; they can't mess around. (kidding)

Anyway, you didn't read about the Six-Day War? Hold on, I'll link. http://en.wikipedia....iki/Six-Day_War. Fascinating stuff.

Oh I did... it's amazing, really. They may be some of the best warriors we have in this age.

#32 Noitidart

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 09:43 PM

It's amazing Israel is totally killing all theese civilians and no one following this media is speaking out against it...

Why is Israel doing this... because two soldiers of theirs were captured because the other side wanted their people back. Truly amazing. And the media makes the people think its right and whats more amazing sooo many people dont see the one sidedness to it and support israel! Wow..

#33 redlion

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 09:48 PM

QUOTE(Noitidart @ Jul 17 2006, 12:43 AM) View Post

It's amazing Israel is totally killing all theese civilians and no one following this media is speaking out against it...

Why is Israel doing this... because two soldiers of theirs were captured because the other side wanted their people back. Truly amazing. And the media makes the people think its right and whats more amazing sooo many people dont see the one sidedness to it and support israel! Wow..

Well... partially. Israel is only partially to blame. If your country was having homemade rockets fired into it from neighboring nations, you'd want to do something about it as well. What if mexico suddenly decided to shell L.A.? Do you have any idea the kind of destruction the U.S. would unleash? Frankly, I see what Israel is doing as rather reserved. Then again, they are still attacking civilians, albeit civilians with AK-47 assault rifles in their hands.

#34 Noitidart

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 10:03 PM

QUOTE(redlion @ Jul 16 2006, 09:48 PM) View Post

Well... partially. Israel is only partially to blame. If your country was having homemade rockets fired into it from neighboring nations, you'd want to do something about it as well. What if mexico suddenly decided to shell L.A.? Do you have any idea the kind of destruction the U.S. would unleash? Frankly, I see what Israel is doing as rather reserved. Then again, they are still attacking civilians, albeit civilians with AK-47 assault rifles in their hands.

1) You don't ask why Israel is getting attacked. Rather then try to fix that problem Israel chooses to make themselves look like the victim.
2) There's no comparison bomb an airport kill, crucial to infracstructure, killing hundreds. Any soldiers? 0... Where as in Israel you are auto in army at age 15.

In your dilemma:
I would ask why are we being shelled and fix that problem. Rather then instant bomb hundreds killing them. 0 justification for Israel

#35 redlion

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 10:07 PM

QUOTE(Noitidart @ Jul 17 2006, 01:03 AM) View Post

1) You don't ask why Israel is getting attacked. Rather then try to fix that problem Israel chooses to make themselves look like the victim.
2) There's no comparison bomb an airport kill, crucial to infracstructure, killing hundreds. Any soldiers? 0... Where as in Israel you are auto in army at age 15.

In your dilemma:
I would ask why are we being shelled and fix that problem. Rather then instant bomb hundreds killing them. 0 justification for Israel

But that is what you would do. You're sensible. The nation as a whole is far less reasonable. There would be Mexican blood over 50 million troops' hands by the days end. Either that, or we'd nuke mexico city and be done with it. What you would do and what a nation would do are two entirely different things.

#36 Noitidart

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 10:17 PM

What I don't get is, the US made the electoral system for that reason you said above. But now why the heck are they so afraid of the people I don't get it...

There's some ulterior motive. Or they just hate people..

Israel contsantly kidnaps (key word) civilians and now 2 of their soldiers are taken as prisoners of war and headlines all over and then that is justification for the leaders of israel to call bombing of neighboring countries... uhh what? How can you still support Israel it is just blatant outright injustice. Israel is breaking so many rules right now by the UN even but US vetos it and the people support it... How can people not see that Israel is doing totally wrong and causing themselves to be attacked.

#37 RandomNameIgnoreIt

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 03:54 AM

Because Israel is the one taking steps to calm the situation, while the terrorists are not. Israel was willing to leave many of their settlements which were disputed so the Palestinians could have them back, but then Palestinians then randomly decide to kidnap Israelis. Worse yet, public opinion in Palestine supported the kidnapping as well as more kidnappings. Then Hezbollah starts kidnapping. I don't even think the Palestinians, Hezbollah, and whoever are willing to bring this to a peaceful conclusion... ever.

#38 Noitidart

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 08:22 AM

QUOTE(BrknPhoenix @ Jul 17 2006, 04:54 AM) View Post

Because Israel is the one taking steps to calm the situation, while the terrorists are not. Israel was willing to leave many of their settlements which were disputed so the Palestinians could have them back, but then Palestinians then randomly decide to kidnap Israelis. Worse yet, public opinion in Palestine supported the kidnapping as well as more kidnappings. Then Hezbollah starts kidnapping. I don't even think the Palestinians, Hezbollah, and whoever are willing to bring this to a peaceful conclusion... ever.

Duuude seriously... Israel trying to calm the situation. They are bombing like crazy... 2 of their soldiers captured not kidnapped and they bomb countries around it. Justification? Uhh no. I think you should read my topic where it talks about how one sided a person has to be to see Israel as the good guy, its not all your fault, its the media for the most part. But if I told people of today especially in the US find an alternative source they couldn't because their lives are that box in their living room and the computer. If we tell them use the net they hit sites like cnn.com lol. Books are good, historical ones, but no one reads those...


You seem suprised that the Palestenians support the capture of Israeli soldiers...
How come you weren't so suprised when Palestenian civilians were kidnapped ignore the soldiers that were captured.
http://www.neocodex....showtopic=53322

#39 Guest_Casilla_*

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 04:58 PM

QUOTE(redlion @ Jul 16 2006, 11:07 PM) View Post

But that is what you would do. You're sensible. The nation as a whole is far less reasonable. There would be Mexican blood over 50 million troops' hands by the days end. Either that, or we'd nuke mexico city and be done with it. What you would do and what a nation would do are two entirely different things.

No matter what happens, we aren't going to nuke any cities. dry.gif Even if WE'RE nuked. Nukes do very little to help a war effort - it's scare tactics only. You'd want more efficient and centralized bombs. Like the MOAB. It worked on Japan because Japan was so small and already very weak from years of blockades. That sort of thing wouldn't work, on say, China.

Give the US a little credit. We would probably wait to find out what happened before we bombed. However, once we knew it was malicious and that the Mexican government was responsible (as opposed to it NOT being the Mexican governemt - at the moment, we'd probably assume it was some sort of terrorist cell), then yes, we'd bomb the hell out of Mexico, but only on military targets. Do civilians get killed at military targets? Yes, but it can't be helped if you wish to retaliate in a war. Not only is attacking civilian targets not something we do (UNLESS it's a business that is making manufacturing weapons, etc), but there are quite a few of our citizens who have family in Mexico, so it would be silly for us to do anything that might anger that (large) portion of our population.

Noit, Israel as a government has all the justification they need until someone else more powerful stops them. You say they attack civilians, but that is just a technicality. Just because a person is not officially employed by a government does not mean they aren't soldiers. You would call them, perhaps, militia. They aren't innocent. Israel does not capture random Palestinians off the street - not only is that foolish, it's stupid and a waste of time and resources, as random civilians can't do anything for them. Whereas "arresting" active militia is something else entirely.

That does not mean all supporters of Hezbollah and Hamas (while we're on it) are militia, but the ones who act in the same capacities as a soldier are. Just like not every Israeli "soldier" is really a soldier.

Israel is, in hindsight, smart to enlist all their citizens into the army in some form - then, if anything happens to their citizens, it's an act of war, not just civilians being kidnapped. Although in this case, it was actual soldiers. Hezbollah acted stupidly - it GAVE, it HANDED OVER, all the justification Israel needed in order to do what they're doing. Even though Israel does not need that justification, as I stated, it makes THEM look good if they're acting in response to soldiers being captured outside of war.

That doesn't mean Israel hasn't done some horrid things - they have and continue to do so. But they are only half of the problem, not all of it.

Edited by Casilla, 17 July 2006 - 05:01 PM.


#40 RandomNameIgnoreIt

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 06:11 PM

Another update. Israel has hinted that it may be necessary to send ground troops into Lebanon, and Lebanon says if Israel does that, their army will fight alongside Hezbollah against Israel.


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